Delay Repay or no seat or both?

[theonlywayisup]

Merry Christmas,

I was on today's 1216 from Exeter St Davids to London Paddington which arrived late at 1514 (should have been 1431). More importantly I was on a first class advance single, £71.10. I had tried to reserve a seat online and got back a blank seat number with confirmation.

When I boarded, it was clear the train was rammed and there was standing room only in the entire train. Several trains this morning had been cancelled.

Looking at GWR website it says if I cannot find a seat in first or standard they will compensate the entire journey. Do I reclaim this or do I reclaim the delay repay or both.

If successful the seat reclaim should be 100% of the ticket. I don't see there would be anything further? I feel I should claim the delay repay which is guaranteed at 50% as there is no evidence I had to stand (apart from the staff seeing it was heaving).

This was an in app ticket purchase (and seat confirmation) via the GWR app.

Any suggestions on which way to go about it please.

 

[Watershed]

You can claim either, but you can't get back more than you paid in total.

The train should have been reported as Full & Standing by the guard so that there is a record of it. In any case, it would be very rum of GWR to effectively accuse you of lying in your claim.

Note that you will need an actual seat number (e.g. coach A, seat 12) to make a seat guarantee claim. I don't think that a 'counted place' reservation (e.g. coach *, seat **) would be accepted as an actual reservation for the purposes of such a claim.

If that's what you received in your reservation confirmation email, I think you will realistically be limited to making a Delay Repay claim - though that is a distinction which should be communicated much more clearly. Work is in progress behind the scenes on that, but it's still a while off coming to fruition.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Do GWR use counted places for Advance tickets? That seems a little strange.

 

[Watershed]

Do GWR use counted places for Advance tickets? That seems a little strange.

Don't LNER?

 

[theonlywayisup]

AFAIA you cannot reserve a seat in some First, it's a given that you have one.






The original ticket shows:




The separate seat reservation (with confirmation number) shows:

 

[Watershed]

Ok, so neither of those are actual, real seat reservations. They are "counted place" reservations in industry jargon - you have been allocated one of a number of 'nominal' first class spaces on the train.

This originated as a bodge to allow Advance tickets to still be sold even once all reservable seats have gone (to allow for the substantial proportion of no-shows) or on trains that don't offer real seat reservations. But it clearly isn't something that should be offered in first class, where a key part of what you are paying for is a guaranteed seat.

Because you had a first class ticket and were unable to sit down, you are entitled to compensation of the difference to an equivalent standard class ticket, on top of any Delay Repay compensation.

GWR may try to limit your total claims to the amount paid - but the entitlement to downgrade compensation is established in the NRCoT, which contains nothing which would limits a combination of a downgrade and Delay Repay claim.

 

[theonlywayisup]

To be fair, I would be happy with the full fare being returned - as per their first class statement of finding no seat. What I didn't want to do is claim for delay repay and them tell me it is one claim only. Thank you for your help.

 

[Snow1964]

You are entitled to both claims, the First class downgrade to standard fare (because no first class seat was available) and delay repay (because they ran the train more than 15 minutes late).

The claims need to be made separately (use delay repay section of website for latter), the downgrade claim from memory goes to customer services.

 

[WesternLancer]

You are entitled to both claims, the First class downgrade to standard fare (because no first class seat was available) and delay repay (because they ran the train more than 15 minutes late).

The claims need to be made separately (use delay repay section of website for latter), the downgrade claim from memory goes to customer services.

Yes. Best to do both so as to ensure the time deadline for delay repay does not expire. Rather than wait for one part of claim to be resolved before commencing the other part I suspect

 

[Mcr Warrior]

More importantly I was on a first class advance single, £71.10.

What first class advance single tier would a £71.10 fare from Exeter to London have been? Wondering if the claim for reimbursement of the difference between first and standard class is successful (which it should be), the separate Delay Repay claim for a 30-59 minute delay (= 50%?) might then only be calculated based on the (equivalent tier) standard class advance single fare.

 

[Watershed]

Wondering if the claim for reimbursement of the difference between first and standard class is successful (which it should be), the separate Delay Repay claim for a 30-59 minute delay (= 50%?) might then only be calculated based on the (equivalent tier) standard class advance single fare

There is nothing in the NRCoT or elsewhere which states that getting downgrade compensation reduces the amount of Delay Repay you get.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Don't LNER?

No only for open tickets.

 

[theonlywayisup]

Sorry can’t work out how to quote @Mcr Warrior

The fare was using my loyalty discount.

They have agreed a delay repay today of £35.55.

The seat issue has gone to CS so I suspect a wait.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

They have agreed a delay repay today of £35.55.

The seat issue has gone to CS so I suspect a wait.

Result! Maybe another £26.00 or thereabouts if you get the downgrade compensation.

 

[sheff1]

When I boarded, it was clear the train was rammed and there was standing room only in the entire train. Several trains this morning had been cancelled.

Looking at GWR website it says if I cannot find a seat in first or standard they will compensate the entire journey.

Did you have to stand all the way ?

If so you are indeed entited to reimbursement of the full amout you paid, not just the difference between the First and Standard Fares

 

[theonlywayisup]

Did you have to stand all the way ?

If so you are indeed entited to reimbursement of the full amout you paid, not just the difference between the First and Standard Fares

I did stand all the way, I did actually tell them that the carriages were so rammed the ticket inspector couldn't get through.

They've come back to me today with the residue of the fare - the bit after the delay repay - being £35.55. So in essence a free journey with the full amount being refunded.

 

[30907]

I did stand all the way, I did actually tell them that the carriages were so rammed the ticket inspector couldn't get through.

They've come back to me today with the residue of the fare - the bit after the delay repay - being £35.55. So in essence a free journey with the full amount being refunded.

Good, thanks for update.

 

[fandroid]

Just a postscript comment. It was plain from the OP's posts #1 and #5 that they (1) had to stand all the way and (2) GWR would refund the whole fare if that was the case (for a passenger with a 1st class ticket).

Shouldn't our advice been been simply to go for that full refund immediately?

The delay repay was just an added complication, although they would have been eligible (on that totally miserable journey) if the refund hadn't been available.

 

[blimmo]

I think the thought was that the "having to stand" refund shouldn't limit the delay repay but that doesn't seem to have happened in the end.

 

[Belperpete]

I think the thought was that the "having to stand" refund shouldn't limit the delay repay but that doesn't seem to have happened in the end.

But the delay repay compensation does seem to have downgraded the "having to stand" compensation. They say that if there are no seats available, they will cover the full cost of the ticket, but they have failed to do that - they have subtracted the delay repay compensation.

So someone who gets 100% delay repay would get no "having to stand" compensation whatsoever?