Delay Repay: Minimum Change Time Vs. Cancellation

[Cat5e]

On a split ticketed journey I travelled with GWR on the first leg and XC on the second leg. The GWR train was delayed 14 minutes when arriving into the station that I need to change at and consequently, the change was below the minimum change time for that station. However, I managed to make the change and continue my journey with XC. When changing at another station further along, my XC connection was cancelled, resulting in an hour delay to my journey.

When calling up XC they were adamant that although I had made the connection, the connection was below the minimum change time and that GWR are at fault. As such, they denied responsibility for compensation for the delay in my journey due to the cancelled XC connection. Does anyone know which train company is responsible, or if there is anything in the NCRoT to help resolve this? Thank you for your input.

 

[jfollows]

What were the timetabled arrival and departure times of the trains you are talking about and what are the names of the stations you are talking about?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Feb 2024 ==

Your question is too vague to answer without the additional information but - one thing - the minimum time between trains is defined based on the timetabled arrival and departure of the two trains, it has nothing to do with the actual time of the trains. As long as you have allowed this amount of time or more between the two trains, it's a valid connection for purposes of Delay Repay.

 

[Cat5e]

Original Timetable:

GWR: (14 min delayed)
Cardiff Central Departing 1118

to

Bristol Parkway Arriving 1154

XC:
Bristol Parkway Departing 1209

to

Bhm New St Arriving 1319

XC: (Cancelled)

Bhm New St Departing 1333

 

[jfollows]

Minimum connection times are 7 minutes at Bristol Parkway and 12 minutes at Birmingham New Street, so both of these connections are valid.
In particular, "When calling up XC they were adamant that although I had made the connection, the connection was below the minimum change time and that GWR are at fault" is rubbish, the connection was >7 minutes so it was above the minimum change time.
You correctly claim Delay Repay from XC because their train ran late and delayed you. If the first XC train had run on time and you had missed it, then you would claim from GWR, but you didn't miss it.

 

[northwichcat]

I had XC being awkward over a delay that involved GWR + XC + Northern, where they claimed it was 30-59 minutes. It was a 40 minute delay to their service but it caused me to arrive at my destination 60 minutes late. After appealing and not hearing anything back I raised a case with the Rail Ombudsman. Within doing that they responded within a few days and processed the correct Delay Repay amount.

 

[hkstudent]

I feel that XC suspected you couldn't make into XC trains due to GWR in real situation. But they are making non sense claim here. So it's better to appeal and insist that you made it on the xc service. Better do the application or appeal online or in writing which confusion can be minimised.

 

[Bletchleyite]

XC is responsible because the first delay that had an actual material impact on the arrival time at your final station was their train. If you made the connection, GWR's train did not have such an impact.

I think a clueless member of staff is confusing delay impact with the requirement for minimum change times to be used when determining the actual itinerary that dictates what your original arrival time would be.

Appeal, and if they refuse request a deadlock letter so you can go to the Ombudsman.

 

[jfollows]

Agreed - do it in writing and tell them your booked trains, and don't make a big point about the first train running late because it's actually not relevant here - if it had been on time you'd have been in exactly the same position.

 

[Cat5e]

Sorry, I made an error in the timetable. The original timetabled time for GWR to arrive at bristol parkway was 1154, but because of the delay it arrived at 1208. But judging by responses I think XC are still liable? Thank you all for helping out.

 

[jfollows]

Sorry, I made an error in the timetable. The original timetabled time for GWR to arrive at bristol parkway was 1154, but because of the delay it arrived at 1208. But judging by responses I think XC are still liable? Thank you all for helping out.

I don't see the error, you said in post 3 above that your first train was due to arrive at 11:54. So your connection was valid for Delay Repay and you made the connection.
Don't get hung up on this train's delay, it's an irrelevant fact in your case.

 

[Cat5e]

Got it. I'll appeal the decision and raise with the ombudsman failing that. Much appreciated.

 

[jfollows]

This is a good example of how silly the Delay Repay system is.
Cat5e turned up for a train, was let down and was delivered over an hour late. So clearly Delay Repay is due.
But now it's about working out from whom to claim, and suffer the bickering and the made-up reasons why it's wrong.
It should be handled centrally, on behalf of all the operating companies, one place to submit a claim and one place to approve it, with a single decision on who pays. The passenger who's been let down shouldn't have to work this out. And it would save money, rather than having every TOC manage it as we have today.

 

[MrJeeves]

Personally, I submit claims based on who broke the minimum connection time to avoid situations like this.

At the end of the day, to the customer, it doesn't really matter who pays out as long as someone does. In the grand scheme of things, it's still the DfT/Treasury paying.

I seem to remember we had another case on the forum a few months ago with someone who made a connection at Birmingham New Street but it was below the MCT and the claim was rejected/passed on to the other TOC too.

 

[Hadders]

It should be XC that pays as they caused the delay. That said automated systems will say it should be GWR because they will assume the connectiuon at BPW was missed.

I had a similar case last summer. I was travelling from Stevenage to Aberdeen with changes at Doncaster and Edinburgh. The train from Stevenage to DOncaster was delayed but I didn't miss my connection at Doncaster due to it being same platform. The train from Edinburgh to Aberdeen was 30 minutes late so I claimed a 30 minute delay from Scotrail.

Scotrail rejected the claim and forwarded it to LNER. I notified both Scotrail and LNER that LNER was responsible because I made the connection at Doncaster.

Scotrail paid up but then a few weeks later so did LNER!

 

[redreni]

I think the TOCs should decide if they want to assess these claims based on what actually happened or on hypothetical scenarios. If the latter, should we all start submitting claims based on connections we nearly missed? If the OP's second XC train had run as scheduled, could he have submitted a claim based on what would have happened if he'd missed his connection at Bristol Parkway. despite having arrived at his destination on time? Of course not; that would be no better than travelling on a flexible ticket, searching for a train they could have travelled on (but didn't) that was delayed and submitting a claim based on that.

Ridiculous.

If XC are not going to pay out to customers who didn't get their full MCT because of a XC delay but still made their connection and arrived at their destination on time, which I'm sure they're not, why on earth would they expect GWR to pay out on this?

 

[yorkie]

It's XC who are liable; automated systems can't work infallibly in these situations, and they should accept that.