Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
I have recently received a letter from cross country trains stating that there has been some suspicious activities around my delay repay claims.
To give some background I travel a lot around the UK to visit various antique fairs and unfortunately a lot of the time I cross paths with cross country trains and have been inconvenienced by delays and cancellations no end which would result in an approved delay repay claim.
Cross country are now claiming that these delay repay claims are fraudulent and have provided so far 3 examples and the only information provided is data taken from the photo uploaded
I have responded to the initial letter via email providing explanations for the 3 examples provided and requested that they provide all evidence for the other discrepancies because as far as I’m concerned I’ve done nothing wrong.
They’ve now sent a further example and asked if I would be prepared to attend an interview to discuss the others.
The 4th example they’ve sent I was using a rover ticket that day which I have found the portion with the boxes but not the actual ticket.
What actual evidence can train companies obtain all the tickets were paper tickets as I break journeys quite often and purchased via Apple Pay.
I’ve gotten into the habit of photoing my tickets in advance due to the amount of times cross country have cancelled a train I was intending to travel on and they seem to be using this against me.
I’ve no desire for legal action but I’m not prepared to as the letter states alternatively pay £1300 to settle.
Can you upload a copy of the correspondence you have had so far? Have they accepted your explanations and excluded those claims from what they're presumably asking you to pay? How many other claims are they talking about and how many have you made in total?
Also, note that you've included the claim reference numbers in the picture you uploaded. Together with the other details in the picture, it makes it very easy for XC to work out who you are, should they wish to do so.
Bear in mind that it has been known for train companies to read this forum, so assume that anything you post here is being read by them and possibly connected to your case. If you want privileged and confidential legal advice, I'm afraid that's not something we can offer on the forum.
If your ticket photos' metadata is their only evidence, this would appear to be rather flimsy and unlikely to reach the criminal burden of proof - which is that you committed an offence (e.g. fraud) beyond all reasonable doubt. Of course it's possible they may have other evidence, for example details of the IP address you submitted the claim from - though even that would still be circumstantial, I would have thought.
In my view, the only kind of evidence that would be truly conclusive would be ticket scanning records or CCTV footage placing you on a train such that you cannot possibly have been delayed in the way you claimed - or alternatively, overlapping or conflicting Delay Repay claims (possibly with them as well as other train companies).
Circumstantial evidence may be accepted as sufficient if they decide to bring a civil claim rather than a criminal prosecution, since the evidential bar in civil proceedings is generally "on the balance of probabilities" - i.e. which explanation/story sounds more likely to the judge. That being said, with an adequate rebuttal or explanation and based on the evidence that XC are sharing here, I think you would be able to defend yourself against this. As mentioned, they could of course have more evidence 'up their sleeve' which might change that.
I appreciate that it will be tempting to attend an interview thinking you can clear this up - especially if you know the claims are all legitimate (I would advise you not to make any admissions, or otherwise, on this forum). But bear in mind that the main purpose of the interview is to gain evidence that can be used against you.
Unlike a police interview, you won't be entitled to free legal advice or representation so you'll have to arrange that at your own expense if you want it (which I would say is tantamount to a 'must' given the prospect of fraud proceedings). Therefore, there could be an argument against cooperating further with them.
It's quite a nuanced decision so I would encourage you to wait for a few people to give advice, so that you can get an idea of different viewpoints.
CC's methodology here is frankly laughable - they seem to be operating on the idea that taking a photo of a ticket before using it to travel makes it "impossible" for you to be delayed on that journey! I'm sure there are plenty of people who would love this magic trick to actually work!
And that's setting aside the fact that image metadata is alterable at will...
It’s best not to say anything at all. Cooperating with them in any way will not likely be in your interests. You shouldn’t have responded to any of the allegations. No comment to any and all questions.
Can you upload a copy of the correspondence you have had so far? Have they accepted your explanations and excluded those claims from what they're presumably asking you to pay? How many other claims are they talking about and how many have you made in total?
Also, note that you've included the claim reference numbers in the picture you uploaded. Together with the other details in the picture, it makes it very easy for XC to work out who you are, should they wish to do so.
Bear in mind that it has been known for train companies to read this forum, so assume that anything you post here is being read by them and possibly connected to your case. If you want privileged and confidential legal advice, I'm afraid that's not something we can offer on the forum.
If your ticket photos' metadata is their only evidence, this would appear to be rather flimsy and unlikely to reach the criminal burden of proof - which is that you committed an offence (e.g. fraud) beyond all reasonable doubt. Of course it's possible they may have other evidence, for example details of the IP address you submitted the claim from - though even that would still be circumstantial, I would have thought.
In my view, the only kind of evidence that would be truly conclusive would be ticket scanning records or CCTV footage placing you on a train such that you cannot possibly have been delayed in the way you claimed - or alternatively, overlapping or conflicting Delay Repay claims (possibly with them as well as other train companies).
Circumstantial evidence may be accepted as sufficient if they decide to bring a civil claim rather than a criminal prosecution, since the evidential bar in civil proceedings is generally "on the balance of probabilities" - i.e. which explanation/story sounds more likely to the judge. That being said, with an adequate rebuttal or explanation and based on the evidence that XC are sharing here, I think you would be able to defend yourself against this. As mentioned, they could of course have more evidence 'up their sleeve' which might change that.
I appreciate that it will be tempting to attend an interview thinking you can clear this up - especially if you know the claims are all legitimate (I would advise you not to make any admissions, or otherwise, on this forum). But bear in mind that the main purpose of the interview is to gain evidence that can be used against you.
Unlike a police interview, you won't be entitled to free legal advice or representation so you'll have to arrange that at your own expense if you want it (which I would say is tantamount to a 'must' given the prospect of fraud proceedings). Therefore, there could be an argument against cooperating further with them.
It's quite a nuanced decision so I would encourage you to wait for a few people to give advice, so that you can get an idea of different viewpoints.
We are contacting you regarding the delay repay claims that have been submitted under your name and address to CrossCountry trains from the 6th of July 2024 to the 7th of July 2025 upon review of these claims is become apparent that a number of the claim submitted have displayed activity which have highlighted inconsistencies leading to further investigation. This includes submitting claims for journey is different to the ticket history data.
We understand that submitting delay pay claims is not always straightforward and that sometimes mistakes are made and errors occur based on the findings of our review. We have found that you’ve submitted delay claims for a total value £2166.60 and received £1229.55 in compensation payments during the period set out above. hope that amount we believe you were not entitled to claim £1122.55 below is a sample of the inconsistencies identified
(See image)
We can confirm that cross-country trains have also incurred additional costs in the sum of £208.67 in the investigation of this matter.
We would like to give you the opportunity to discuss the issue set out in this letter. Alternatively we ask you make a payment of £1331.22 no later than the 4th of August 2025 BACS/chaps
If you failed to engage with CrossCountry trains to resolve the overpayment issue set out in this letter within the timeframe stated above then CrossCountry trains reserves the right to take further action against you without notice to recover the set out in this letter plus any investigative or other additional costs Incurred by cross-country trains in relation to this matter further action may include issuing legal proceedings against you and all the reporting of this matter to the British transport police. Should cross country trains continue to receive delay repay claims from you that cross-country trains acting reasonably deemed to be inaccurate then cross-country trains reserves the flight to take further action against you to recover any losses this may include issuing legal proceedings against you and or reporting of such matters to the British transport police
We look forward to hearing from you
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Can you upload a copy of the correspondence you have had so far? Have they accepted your explanations and excluded those claims from what they're presumably asking you to pay? How many other claims are they talking about and how many have you made in total?
Also, note that you've included the claim reference numbers in the picture you uploaded. Together with the other details in the picture, it makes it very easy for XC to work out who you are, should they wish to do so.
Bear in mind that it has been known for train companies to read this forum, so assume that anything you post here is being read by them and possibly connected to your case. If you want privileged and confidential legal advice, I'm afraid that's not something we can offer on the forum.
If your ticket photos' metadata is their only evidence, this would appear to be rather flimsy and unlikely to reach the criminal burden of proof - which is that you committed an offence (e.g. fraud) beyond all reasonable doubt. Of course it's possible they may have other evidence, for example details of the IP address you submitted the claim from - though even that would still be circumstantial, I would have thought.
In my view, the only kind of evidence that would be truly conclusive would be ticket scanning records or CCTV footage placing you on a train such that you cannot possibly have been delayed in the way you claimed - or alternatively, overlapping or conflicting Delay Repay claims (possibly with them as well as other train companies).
Circumstantial evidence may be accepted as sufficient if they decide to bring a civil claim rather than a criminal prosecution, since the evidential bar in civil proceedings is generally "on the balance of probabilities" - i.e. which explanation/story sounds more likely to the judge. That being said, with an adequate rebuttal or explanation and based on the evidence that XC are sharing here, I think you would be able to defend yourself against this. As mentioned, they could of course have more evidence 'up their sleeve' which might change that.
I appreciate that it will be tempting to attend an interview thinking you can clear this up - especially if you know the claims are all legitimate (I would advise you not to make any admissions, or otherwise, on this forum). But bear in mind that the main purpose of the interview is to gain evidence that can be used against you.
Unlike a police interview, you won't be entitled to free legal advice or representation so you'll have to arrange that at your own expense if you want it (which I would say is tantamount to a 'must' given the prospect of fraud proceedings). Therefore, there could be an argument against cooperating further with them.
It's quite a nuanced decision so I would encourage you to wait for a few people to give advice, so that you can get an idea of different viewpoints.
Can you upload a copy of the correspondence you have had so far? Have they accepted your explanations and excluded those claims from what they're presumably asking you to pay? How many other claims are they talking about and how many have you made in total?
Also, note that you've included the claim reference numbers in the picture you uploaded. Together with the other details in the picture, it makes it very easy for XC to work out who you are, should they wish to do so.
Bear in mind that it has been known for train companies to read this forum, so assume that anything you post here is being read by them and possibly connected to your case. If you want privileged and confidential legal advice, I'm afraid that's not something we can offer on the forum.
If your ticket photos' metadata is their only evidence, this would appear to be rather flimsy and unlikely to reach the criminal burden of proof - which is that you committed an offence (e.g. fraud) beyond all reasonable doubt. Of course it's possible they may have other evidence, for example details of the IP address you submitted the claim from - though even that would still be circumstantial, I would have thought.
In my view, the only kind of evidence that would be truly conclusive would be ticket scanning records or CCTV footage placing you on a train such that you cannot possibly have been delayed in the way you claimed - or alternatively, overlapping or conflicting Delay Repay claims (possibly with them as well as other train companies).
Circumstantial evidence may be accepted as sufficient if they decide to bring a civil claim rather than a criminal prosecution, since the evidential bar in civil proceedings is generally "on the balance of probabilities" - i.e. which explanation/story sounds more likely to the judge. That being said, with an adequate rebuttal or explanation and based on the evidence that XC are sharing here, I think you would be able to defend yourself against this. As mentioned, they could of course have more evidence 'up their sleeve' which might change that.
I appreciate that it will be tempting to attend an interview thinking you can clear this up - especially if you know the claims are all legitimate (I would advise you not to make any admissions, or otherwise, on this forum). But bear in mind that the main purpose of the interview is to gain evidence that can be used against you.
Unlike a police interview, you won't be entitled to free legal advice or representation so you'll have to arrange that at your own expense if you want it (which I would say is tantamount to a 'must' given the prospect of fraud proceedings). Therefore, there could be an argument against cooperating further with them.
It's quite a nuanced decision so I would encourage you to wait for a few people to give advice, so that you can get an idea of different viewpoints.
I write to you regarding the concerning letter that I have received claiming that I have incorrectly made delay repay claims to your company.
I find it baffling based on the sample evidence you have provided that you have come to this conclusion.
I have reviewed the information based on the “sample” evidence in your letter and can provide the following information to explain the discrepancies.
Xxxx - your information states that this an impossible journey as the photo data states it was taken on a train near splott at 0643 am. I did not make the journey to Uttoxeter until 1845 that evening which you cancelled and that was what I ended up claiming for which you approved. On that morning I had made a different journey locally to Newport to meet a friend for Breakfast I returned back later that morning before returning home and commencing my journey that evening. It is common practice for me to photograph tickets for delay repay purposes in case they get swallowed up by ticket barriers for example so as far as I am concerned there is nothing suspicious.
Xxxx - you state that this photo was taken on a train inside Cardiff Central Station at 1633 and therefore state it is an impossible journey. Well as I explained in the previous claim I normally photo tickets sometimes days before journeys are made and this photo was taken whilst on my way home that day before making the journey on the 30th which I was then heavily delayed through fault of your organisation.
Xxxx -
This image was taken on the day of the outward journey so there is no indication or proof that is claim is incorrect.
So it looks like either some big misunderstanding or that you have put 2 and 2 together and come up with 47. As a result I wish to dispute this letter and require you now to send any actual evidence you have as what you have provided in the letter is not evidence in anyway shape or form.
I require this evidence to be sent in response to this email no later than the close of business on the 31st July
If I hear no response from you I will escalate this further as it is absolutely unacceptable to accuse me of this and demand a large amount of money without any credible evidence whatsoever. The service your company provides is appalling and I am regularly delayed on your services and quite frankly this is a kick in the teeth.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Can you upload a copy of the correspondence you have had so far? Have they accepted your explanations and excluded those claims from what they're presumably asking you to pay? How many other claims are they talking about and how many have you made in total?
Also, note that you've included the claim reference numbers in the picture you uploaded. Together with the other details in the picture, it makes it very easy for XC to work out who you are, should they wish to do so.
Bear in mind that it has been known for train companies to read this forum, so assume that anything you post here is being read by them and possibly connected to your case. If you want privileged and confidential legal advice, I'm afraid that's not something we can offer on the forum.
If your ticket photos' metadata is their only evidence, this would appear to be rather flimsy and unlikely to reach the criminal burden of proof - which is that you committed an offence (e.g. fraud) beyond all reasonable doubt. Of course it's possible they may have other evidence, for example details of the IP address you submitted the claim from - though even that would still be circumstantial, I would have thought.
In my view, the only kind of evidence that would be truly conclusive would be ticket scanning records or CCTV footage placing you on a train such that you cannot possibly have been delayed in the way you claimed - or alternatively, overlapping or conflicting Delay Repay claims (possibly with them as well as other train companies).
Circumstantial evidence may be accepted as sufficient if they decide to bring a civil claim rather than a criminal prosecution, since the evidential bar in civil proceedings is generally "on the balance of probabilities" - i.e. which explanation/story sounds more likely to the judge. That being said, with an adequate rebuttal or explanation and based on the evidence that XC are sharing here, I think you would be able to defend yourself against this. As mentioned, they could of course have more evidence 'up their sleeve' which might change that.
I appreciate that it will be tempting to attend an interview thinking you can clear this up - especially if you know the claims are all legitimate (I would advise you not to make any admissions, or otherwise, on this forum). But bear in mind that the main purpose of the interview is to gain evidence that can be used against you.
Unlike a police interview, you won't be entitled to free legal advice or representation so you'll have to arrange that at your own expense if you want it (which I would say is tantamount to a 'must' given the prospect of fraud proceedings). Therefore, there could be an argument against cooperating further with them.
It's quite a nuanced decision so I would encourage you to wait for a few people to give advice, so that you can get an idea of different viewpoints.
Good morning and thank you for your response.
In total, there are 17 cases relating to Delay Repay claims, some of which we have identified that compensation awarded to you was correct.
An example of another Delay Repay we believe an overpayment has been made is below.
Case reference - XXXX
Journey Information - Newton Abbot - Cardiff Central (04/05/2025 12:05 service)
Discrepancy Identified - Image taken onboard CrossCountry service on 02/05/2025 at 09:11.
This image was taken two days before the journey submitted for Delay Repay. I appreciate that on occasions you take images of your tickets, in the event that a ticket is swallowed up at a ticket barrier. On this occasion the outbound portion of your ticket was only valid from the 26th April 2025 - 30th April 2025.
Therefore as a result, the image would not have been taken on the outbound portion of your journey.
I would like to give you the opportunity to discuss each of these claims before any further decisions are taken.
Would you be free to attend an interview to discuss these claims? This can be at our head office in Birmingham. Alternatively, this could be arranged via a teams call.
It's totally essential that you learn to stop corresponding with them. You do not have to reply to them, and it is not in your interests to. Every time you reply you dig the hole deeper and get more and more correspondence from them.
It's totally essential that you learn to stop corresponding with them. You do not have to reply to them, and it is not in your interests to. Every time you reply you dig the hole deeper and get more and more correspondence from them.
It's totally essential that you learn to stop corresponding with them. You do not have to reply to them, and it is not in your interests to. Every time you reply you dig the hole deeper and get more and more correspondence from them.
This image was taken two days before the journey submitted for Delay Repay. I appreciate that on occasions you take images of your tickets, in the event that a ticket is swallowed up at a ticket barrier. On this occasion the outbound portion of your ticket was only valid from the 26th April 2025 - 30th April 2025.
Therefore as a result, the image would not have been taken on the outbound portion of your journey.
bloody hell this is nonsense, I've been using the avanti delay repay scheme on every other trip to London this summer - the last one they tried to bounce my claim because my ticket was not for the train that was delayed by over 70 minutes but I did have a full recollection of the sequence of events that led me to be on that late train, the previous one I was booked on was actually cancelled (which they knew) and I was advised to take the next one available at Euston which bizarrely although timetabled before my ticketed one, left after my original train but itself was 70 minutes late - couldn't make it up - upon appeal they did award me my cash - nearly £100 from three out of six London trips in two months!
SNever ever respond to any fishing requests like this. They don't have any evidence of fraud, and if you're absolutely certain you haven't defrauded them, you will know they have no evidence of the same. You're giving evidence to them totally unrepresented, so unless or until you instruct a solicitor, use your right against self-incrimination.
SNever ever respond to any fishing requests like this. They don't have any evidence of fraud, and if you're absolutely certain you haven't defrauded them, you will know they have no evidence of the same. You're giving evidence to them totally unrepresented, so unless or until you instruct a solicitor, use your right against self-incrimination.
Given the phrasing "Impossible journey", it looks as if they've decided they can take the metadata from paper ticket photos and feed it into their algorithms as if it were e-ticket scan data.
Alternative view: As you have already engaged to this extent I'm not sure that ceasing abruptly at this point after this further allegation is the best plan. They may falsely see that as an admission of guilt re the further matter, and at least may attempt to deny your future, entirely legitimate delay repay claims even if (as it appears) they have no real evidence of wrongdoing since none has occurred.
If I'm understanding this correctly, they are now saying that on this further occasion you took an image of your ticket *too early* (or at "the wrong time"?) and should have waited to take it later? I'd simply point out to them that you quite legitimately and for good reason take images of your tickets at your convenience, and given the chronic unreliability of their services, taking such pre-emptive action is entirely prudent and constitutes no evidence of any wrongdoing, and that you will not enter into any further correspondence about this issue.
If I have misunderstood the situation (I can scarcely believe they are making these accusations purely based on when you took these images!) please disregard this.
I hope that XC *are* reading this and see how totally ludicrous it is to make accusations of fraud based on when ticket images were taken when it is entirely legitimate and in the case of Cross Country entirely prudent to make such images not only at any time but at your first convenient moment after the tickets come into your possession, to ensure you do not forget and later have them swallowed by a barrier.
Anyhow this is just my opinion; others are advising strongly not to correspond further so I'll leave it there.
Provided that the tickets concerned were valid at the times you claimed, and that you actually travelled/attempted to travel then, it is up to XC to provide evidence to substantiate their claim.
I routinely look at the metadata of images and documents which are sent to me, and use that metadata to decide whether I think they’re genuine or not and whether the person who sent them is lying to me.
XC aren’t doing anything unusual, it’s just that they’ve obviously just learned a new trick and haven’t quite thought about the context of it yet.
(* Advanced Professional Certificate in Investigative Practice)
(** open source intelligence, i.e. stuff you can find in the public domain)
Someone at XC has just done their APCIP and learned all about OSINT and metadata. How sweet.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I routinely look at the metadata of images and documents which are sent to me, and use that metadata to decide whether I think they’re genuine or not and whether the person who sent them is lying to me.
XC aren’t doing anything unusual, it’s just that they’ve obviously just learned a new trick and haven’t quite thought about the context of it yet.
Yes, they just seem to be missing the entirely obvious, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with, and it is entirely legitimate and prudent to image your tickets as early as when you first obtain them, particularly for a chronically poor service such as theirs.
Alternative view: As you have already engaged to this extent I'm not sure that ceasing abruptly at this point after this further allegation is the best plan. They may falsely see that as an admission of guilt re the further matter, and at least may attempt to deny your future, entirely legitimate delay repay claims even if (as it appears) they have no real evidence of wrongdoing since none has occurred.
If I'm understanding this correctly, they are now saying that on this further occasion you took an image of your ticket *too early* (or at "the wrong time"?) and should have waited to take it later? I'd simply point out to them that you quite legitimately and for good reason take images of your tickets at your convenience, and given the chronic unreliability of their services, taking such pre-emptive action is entirely prudent and constitutes no evidence of any wrongdoing, and that you will not enter into any further correspondence about this issue.
If I have misunderstood the situation (I can scarcely believe they are making these accusations purely based on when you took these images!) please disregard this.
I hope that XC *are* reading this and see how totally ludicrous it is to make accusations of fraud based on when ticket images were taken when it is entirely legitimate and in the case of Cross Country entirely prudent to make such images not only at any time but at your first convenient moment after the tickets come into your possession, to ensure you do not forget and later have them swallowed by a barrier.
Anyhow this is just my opinion; others are advising strongly not to correspond further so I'll leave it there.
Yeah I did wonder if it would be prudent to just not respond especially when I have an explanation for the further example they provided. I may respond to that and decline the interview and just state no further comment will be made at this time I shall ponder but thanks for the insight
Yes, they just seem to be missing the entirely obvious, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with, and it is entirely legitimate and prudent to image your tickets as early as when you first obtain them, particularly for a chronically poor service such as theirs.
I wouldn't so much say they were missing the obvious as that they are starting from the completely invalid premise that you can learn about someone's journey from what time they happened to take the photo of their ticket.
I have to say I rather wish I didn't read these threads because I now know that at any point in the future I might be threatened with a conviction for fraud for doing something entirely legitimate but out of the ordinary - something I suspect quite a few people on this forum do.
And yes I know that if one ignores these things they will amost certainly go away if there is no wrong-doing, but that doesn't make it a pleasant experience being bombarded with increasingly severe threats.
The sum of what's happened is CrossCountry have held the position that if you take a picture of your ticket before your delayed journey that this is not allowable and means you can't have been delayed. Also, if you take a picture of it afterwards, this is, magically, also not allowed and means your claim is fraudulent. OP's come onto their radar due to the volume and value of claims following a CRM scrape of the top claimers and someone's got very excited and not actually engaged their brain before sending correspondence.
Such a desperate, passenger-hating industry, honestly. Tragic, and even more so given the low wattage correspondence that train companies often send which mean they're too stupid to even be actively evil like the Post Office was. So much incompetence. (Also, very depressing to live in a country where the Post Office is an actual, genuine villain enabled by an extremely incurious state....urgh)
If I'm understanding this correctly, they are now saying that on this further occasion you took an image of your ticket *too early* (or at "the wrong time"?) and should have waited to take it later? I'd simply point out to them that you quite legitimately and for good reason take images of your tickets at your convenience, and given the chronic unreliability of their services, taking such pre-emptive action is entirely prudent and constitutes no evidence of any wrongdoing, and that you will not enter into any further correspondence about this issue.
I think for this example they are saying that the photo wasn’t taken during a journey on the delayed train claimed for, and also that it wasn’t taken on or before the journey on the outward portion of the ticket, since that journey had to be completed before the photo was taken. So they consider it grounds for suspicion that the OP was on a Cross Country train a week after the ticket was bought, but before the day of the claimed-for journey, and that is when the photo was taken. This isn’t strong evidence of wrongdoing, but it isn’t implausible that this could give rise to a reasonable suspicion.
Whether they would accept a direct denial and assertion that every claim made was for a journey genuinely undertaken remains to be seen. It’s not a great experience for the innocent but it is logical to identify people you suspect to have been making wrongful claims and to offer them a chance to repay any money they’ve received inappropriately without further proceedings, and if someone posted here saying they’d made some wrongful claims and received this message people here would recommend they settle before it escalates.
It’s not a great experience for the innocent but it is logical to identify people you suspect to have been making wrongful claims and to offer them a chance to repay any money they’ve received inappropriately without further proceedings, and if someone posted here saying they’d made some wrongful claims and received this message people here would recommend they settle before it escalates.
It is absolutely right that they should identify people they suspect have made wrongful claims, but this is absolutely not the way to go about it and does absolutely nothing to demonstrate even the tiniest hint that the OP may be making wrongful claims
You know I almost think XC were better off still using Transport Investigation Limited if this is the quality of their own revenue protection efforts...
Which is not something I ever thought I'd be saying!
I think for this example they are saying that the photo wasn’t taken during a journey on the delayed train claimed for, and also that it wasn’t taken on or before the journey on the outward portion of the ticket, since that journey had to be completed before the photo was taken. So they consider it grounds for suspicion that the OP was on a Cross Country train a week after the ticket was bought, but before the day of the claimed-for journey, and that is when the photo was taken. This isn’t strong evidence of wrongdoing, but it isn’t implausible that this could give rise to a reasonable suspicion.
There is nothing reasonable to suspect fraud just because someone took a picture of their ticket in the vast tracts of time before they were on the delayed train, and after it. This is subnormally stupid from XC as it is the only evidence they cite, and is indefensible. Arkell v Pressdram comes to mind, but silence is wiser.
I think for this example they are saying that the photo wasn’t taken during a journey on the delayed train claimed for, and also that it wasn’t taken on or before the journey on the outward portion of the ticket, since that journey had to be completed before the photo was taken. So they consider it grounds for suspicion that the OP was on a Cross Country train a week after the ticket was bought, but before the day of the claimed-for journey, and that is when the photo was taken. This isn’t strong evidence of wrongdoing, but it isn’t implausible that this could give rise to a reasonable suspicion.
Whether they would accept a direct denial and assertion that every claim made was for a journey genuinely undertaken remains to be seen. It’s not a great experience for the innocent but it is logical to identify people you suspect to have been making wrongful claims and to offer them a chance to repay any money they’ve received inappropriately without further proceedings, and if someone posted here saying they’d made some wrongful claims and received this message people here would recommend they settle before it escalates.
Tbh I’ve considered settling under protest even though I don’t owe the amount and have done nothing wrong, I have till the 4th to choose that option should I wish
Reason being is that CrossCountry are in my opinion acting in bad faith and are almost trying to say roll the dice and find out A better course of action may be to remove the threat of further action hit them
With a subject access request and put in a large complaint to attempt to claw the wrongful demand back.
I think I may have a conversation with a solicitor first though to understand my position a little better.
I also find this odd, noting that the response you provided to XC (at #5 above) does not include a direct denial of their allegations. Instead, you query the poor evidence provided in support of them. This is of course entirely valid but it would be wise to put any further reply to the forum in draft before sending it to XC.
I think for this example they are saying that the photo wasn’t taken during a journey on the delayed train claimed for, and also that it wasn’t taken on or before the journey on the outward portion of the ticket, since that journey had to be completed before the photo was taken. So they consider it grounds for suspicion that the OP was on a Cross Country train a week after the ticket was bought, but before the day of the claimed-for journey, and that is when the photo was taken. This isn’t strong evidence of wrongdoing, but it isn’t implausible that this could give rise to a reasonable suspicion.
Indeed, if Crosscountry's argument (not very well put forward by them) in every highlighted case is that "the metadata of your picture places you on a train/station at a particular time and we suspect that you used the same ticket to travel at that time as well as claim delay repay for a later service", then maybe a simple resolution (if one did not want to fight the allegation on pure principle that it is absurd) would be to submit evidence of the other ticket actually used for travel when each picture was taken?
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
