Delay Repay entitlement to be cut?

[Bletchleyite]

Automating the system so that staff don't have to manually input stuff into a CRM is possible but only if their is software that allows such thing?

Are there companies that automate the inputting of details into their CRM system?

It's so easily done I'd be amazed if many didn't.

 

[infobleep]

It's so easily done I'd be amazed if many didn't.

My experience of companies making decent software for other commercial companies has been hit and miss, so I wouldn't be surprised if many didn't, even though it could be easy to do.

 

[MrJeeves]

GTR also do an auto delay repay system for users of their smartcard.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Britain has one of the most generous compensation schemes in Europe. SNCF is 30 minutes, as does SBB. The *processing* of delay repay claims is a large expense which is probably driving a lot of the government’s thinking here.

Delays of under thirty minutes are far less common for SBB than in Britain though, obviously.

It's not all about you. Plenty of people make much longer journeys than you do (and don’t get stressed by delays of 15 minutes).

Nice bit of unnecessary nastiness there.

After all the time we spent getting it down to 15 minutes in the first place.

"One-click process" - I'll believe it when I see it.

I personally think it's a cheap trick - as reliability and performance of TOCs continues to worsen, LNER and pretty much all of First Group's ones being notable perpetrators, they've obviously had an increase in claims and this is the DfT's reaction. What a wonderful, customer-friendly response to regular commuter delays - to simply remove the compensation benefits. It's too bad.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Mar 2023 ==

CrossCountry forwarded my last claim to another train operator when I knew I'd sent it to them correctly (and not travelled with the second operator) so I was expecting to have to fight it, but strangely the second operator paid up so I've let it be.

Delay repay across TOCs has long been something that's been unclear, and an interesting discussion I had not so long ago with one of our Senior Fares Advisors was whether or not one would still get delay repay if travelling on the next available service with the TOC they were booked to travel with, which might not have been the next available service.

For example, if my booked Avanti service at Crewe or Birmingham was cancelled, and I was told I could either join the LNR service or wait a fair bit for the next Avanti service, I would join the next Avanti service - and if that got me in later than the LNR would have done, I'd still expect compensation for the full amount I was delayed, as I haven't paid to travel with LNR.

 

[AlterEgo]

Delays of under thirty minutes are far less common for SBB than in Britain though, obviously.

All the more reason for SBB to compensate for it then!

 

[Wallsendmag]

I personally think it's a cheap trick - as reliability and performance of TOCs continues to worsen, LNER and pretty much all of First Group's ones being notable perpetrators, they've obviously had an increase in claims and this is the DfT's reaction. What a wonderful, customer-friendly response to regular commuter delays - to simply remove the compensation benefits. It's too bad.You'll be glad to know then that LNER has never been a 15 minute Delay Repay TOC, Delay Repay is available after 30 minutes

You'll be glad to know then that LNER has never been a 15 minute Delay Repay TOC, Delay Repay is available after 30 minutes

 

[robbeech]

Nice bit of unnecessary nastiness there.

I see nothing of the sort there, the post it quote, whilst I’m sure not intentionally comes across as very selfish, suggesting that only ideas that benefits them should be considered and nobody else matters. This comment just highlights the vast range of travel arrangements made by people and reminds us that our situations are unique.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

All the more reason for SBB to compensate for it then!

Yes, you’re arguably right.

 

[andythebrave]

I'd accept this if they would make the 30 minute threshold 25 minutes, the 60 55 and the 120 115. It really, really riles when they come out with "but you were only 29 minutes late" when there's a cancellation on a half hourly service, when in fact had the cancelled train operated you'd have arrived, due to recovery time, precisely 30 minutes earlier.

Agreed but unlikely as it is too sensible.

 

[island]

I'd accept this if they would make the 30 minute threshold 25 minutes, the 60 55 and the 120 115. It really, really riles when they come out with "but you were only 29 minutes late" when there's a cancellation on a half hourly service, when in fact had the cancelled train operated you'd have arrived, due to recovery time, precisely 30 minutes earlier.

Then the people who are 24/54/114 minutes late will have the same argument. A line has to be drawn somewhere and there will always be some people who fall the wrong side of it.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Then the people who are 24/54/114 minutes late will have the same argument. A line has to be drawn somewhere and there will always be some people who fall the wrong side of it.

Though it’s less common to have a service running every 25 minutes than it is to have one running half hourly.

 

[jeremyjh]

It would be helpful if the 30 minute threshold was moved to 29 minutes if 15 minute delay repay is removed.

It is a common issue that people miss out on delay repay when a 30 minute frequency train is cancelled and the next one runs 'right time'.

I would suspect this is a feature and not a bug...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Then the people who are 24/54/114 minutes late will have the same argument. A line has to be drawn somewhere and there will always be some people who fall the wrong side of it.

Using exactly 30 etc is unfair to more people, because if a train on a 30 minute frequency service is cancelled, you ARE 30 minutes late precisely by definition. Recovery time doesn't make that actually 29 minutes. It's grossly petty and pedantic, and acts against the railway far more than not having DR at all would.

For a non-cancellation delay yes, there'll always be someone disappointed, but most trains in the UK run on a clockface timetable and so it trips up people whose train was cancelled almost every single time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Mar 2023 ==

I would suspect this is a feature and not a bug...

It might save a few quid but like a lot of things just makes the railway look petty and penny pinching.

I'd accept removal of the 15 minute tier if they fixed this, either by changing it to 25/55 etc or by processing cancellations differently so a cancelled train or missed connection on a 30 minute frequency with the following one on time is automatically classed as a 30 minute delay (etc) even if it's technically 29 minutes due to terminus recovery time (which itself is in many cases a wilful and dishonest obfuscation, e.g. at Wrexham Central where on a single platform the inbound train is scheduled to arrive after the same train is scheduled to depart again!)

To be honest it would fix it if the time used for DR calculation for any given train was the later of the timetabled arrival time or the actual arrival time, also taking into account that the recorded time is often a good 20 seconds before the doors are open at the platform (which is further sneakiness).

 

[Watershed]

It's grossly petty and pedantic, and acts against the railway far more than not having DR at all would.

Indeed. TfW are one of the worst offenders in this regard; their south Wales-Manchester services are generally advertised to arrive 5 minutes after the working timetable arrival, meaning that a Stockport-Manchester journey supposedly takes 14 minutes! It's a blatant attempt at massaging the statistics.

 

[Kite159]

Indeed. TfW are one of the worst offenders in this regard; their south Wales-Manchester services are generally advertised to arrive 5 minutes after the working timetable arrival, meaning that a Stockport-Manchester journey supposedly takes 14 minutes! It's a blatant attempt at massaging the statistics.

Cally Sleeper as well, 7 minute difference between the working timetable arrival into Inverness & the public timetable. 15 minutes at Aberdeen.

 

[AlterEgo]

Indeed. TfW are one of the worst offenders in this regard; their south Wales-Manchester services are generally advertised to arrive 5 minutes after the working timetable arrival, meaning that a Stockport-Manchester journey supposedly takes 14 minutes! It's a blatant attempt at massaging the statistics.

I don’t really see the problem with this to be honest, it’s a way of setting expectations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don’t really see the problem with this to be honest, it’s a way of setting expectations.

It's tantamount to fraud when used to get out of a DR payment though, because if the next train had 5 minutes' recovery time then so would the cancelled one.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's tantamount to fraud when used to get out of a DR payment though, because if the next train had 5 minutes' recovery time then so would the cancelled one.

Oh yes I agree with your point entirely about the thresholds. Virgin WC used to pay out for an hour delay at 57 or 58 minutes which was fair enough.

 

[Runningaround]

Why do they send automated emails with claims of £3.25 for trains that are on time and send nothing for the train that was cancelled and made me over an hour late?

 

[Magdalen Road]

GTR also do an auto delay repay system for users of their smartcard.

It doesn't work though. At least not for me. Had about 3 emails in 3 years. They took at least 48 hours after the delay and you still have to do the claim. The email merely suggests you might be eligible.

My trains are frequently 5-10 mins late, as well as the various longer delays, cancellations and collapsing track. It does have an impact on my life.
I'd prefer % refund on my season ticket. The punctuality and reliability is dreadful (GTR Fenline).

 

[miklcct]

Then the people who are 24/54/114 minutes late will have the same argument. A line has to be drawn somewhere and there will always be some people who fall the wrong side of it.

If it is in the form of £x per minute there will be no line drawn. For example, nothing for the first 15 minutes, £0.20 for each minute afterwards.

 

[Runningaround]

TFW are persistent in sending automated 15 min delay repay emails, they don't only do this for trains that aren't late but more often for services that are far more delayed or cancelled where the compensation is far higher than the amount offered in the email.

I've had a few this week one for the out which was on time, nothing for the return that was cancelled
And one for yesterday for 15 mins delay which was cancelled and made me 3 hours late on the out and 1 hour late return

I don't understand the reasoning for this is it so passengers unaware of delay repay or who want the easy process of just click the link and therefore invalidate a claim for the correct delay which will be higher, than the amount offered?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I’ve mixed views to be honest. 15 minutes means there are lots of low value claims but there does need to be an incentive to get the TOCs to run their services on time.

My experiences with London Midland back in the day was lots of delays of 10-20 minutes, both in the morning and in the evening. On its own a 15 minute delay is annoying rather than anything else, but when it happens five or six times a week then suddenly it is much more of a big deal. Most weeks I was easily losing an hour of my time due to London Midland’s inability to operate what it should have when it should have. And time is money.

It’s a dangerous game to play as the people who’ll most notice this are the commuters into London from the shires, the ones who understand the value of their time.

 

[KGX]

15 minutes is way too generous. I would rather see the money stay in the railway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My experiences with London Midland back in the day was lots of delays of 10-20 minutes, both in the morning and in the evening. On its own a 15 minute delay is annoying rather than anything else, but when it happens five or six times a week then suddenly it is much more of a big deal. Most weeks I was easily losing an hour of my time due to London Midland’s inability to operate what it should have when it should have. And time is money.

It’s a dangerous game to play as the people who’ll most notice this are the commuters into London from the shires, the ones who understand the value of their time.

The previous south WCML timetable (pre the Liverpool nonsense) did involve tacit acceptance of short delays in the peaks, typically 5-10 minutes but sometimes triggering a 15 minute payment. This was just because of how rammed that section of line is - the timetable basically only worked on paper - plus the general view that because of the high demand operating everything as booked even if it's late and sorting out any mess in between the peaks was the best way to go. In theory the current thinner timetable should manage it a bit better and does seem to be settling down.

 

[bob007]

I’m somewhat for reducing compensation because TOCs rely way too heavily on its existence as a response to any customer grievance. Trains should run on time, not normally be late and cancelled and then TOCs act like it’s ok because delay repay exists

 

[superkopite]

I wholeheartedly favour DR payouts for 15-29 min delays. When you are a frequent commuter, delays of say 20 mins are infuriating. Especially when you consider the length of your delay vs the duration of your journey, a 20min delay for a 45min journey is huge. When it happens 2-3 times per week, you are damn right I want some money back. It's not acceptable, especially against the backdrop of disruption of the past few years.

 

[Runningaround]

15 minutes is way too generous. I would rather see the money stay in the railway.

For who?
The claim amounts can be so small a % the passenger doesn't bother/ with the hassle, the TOC keeps 100 % of that fare.
So the by losing it where's the incentive to keep delays below 15 mins.
15 mins can be the difference between catching your last bus home or losing an hours pay.
I'd like to see a higher % of fare possibly by the minute with an easy claim to process.

 

[LYuen]

I noticed the One-click repay system on LNER but never understand how it works (and never used it).
I had a trip from Manchester to Leeds (TPE) then Leeds to Kings Cross (LNER)
The TPE service was delayed for 17 minutes so it is entitled to TPE's own delay repay.
The LNER service was canceled and later reinstated to start from York (theft of signaling cables between Leeds and Doncaster)

Neither trip had opened any claim case automatically, so I have filed claims for the 2 trips separately.
Can the one-click repay system able to handle such cases anyway?

 

[Hadders]

I noticed the One-click repay system on LNER but never understand how it works (and never used it).
I had a trip from Manchester to Leeds (TPE) then Leeds to Kings Cross (LNER)
The TPE service was delayed for 17 minutes so it is entitled to TPE's own delay repay.
The LNER service was canceled and later reinstated to start from York (theft of signaling cables between Leeds and Doncaster)

Neither trip had opened any claim case automatically, so I have filed claims for the 2 trips separately.
Can the one-click repay system able to handle such cases anyway?

Was this a journey from Manchester to London involving two trains? If so you should make one delay repay claim to the train operator that causes the initial delay.