Delay Repay: does this split ticket itinerary represent a valid journey?

[nitten_travell]

Hi all - posting here as it's a post-travel ticketing issue but please do move if appropriate.

I planned to travel from Newtongrange to Manchester Victoria yesterday (16 July) as follows:

dep Newtongrange 1152 arr Edinburgh 1218 (Scotrail anytime day single £5.60)
dep Edinburgh 1256 arr Newcastle 1419 (LumoFixed £9.20)
dep Newcastle 1543 arr Manchester 1813 (TPE Advance Single 1st, £28.40 with TwoTogether; I met up with someone else and we travelled together hence the railcard and the slightly eccentric route)

Tickets were all booked on the LNER website.

The final leg was cancelled and we instead took the 1642 from Newcastle, which arrived at Manchester at 1914. An hour and one minute late = 100% Delay Repay from TPE, hooray!

BUT - what is my "journey" for Delay Repay purposes? Is it just the TPE leg (so I claim £28.40)? Or is it the whole lot from Newtongrange (and claim £43.20 all from TPE)? I had a fairly lengthy wait at Newcastle but never actually left the station; we opted not to book onto the 1447 from Newcastle in case of a problem with the Lumo service. I realise I will probably have to process this claim by letter rather than online so want to make sure I have a sound argument for the full amount.

 

[methecooldude]

I would imagine it's just the TPE leg. However, changing the subject a little bit you mentioned you met up with someone else... the Two Together railcard is only valid when the 2 named cardholders are travelling together, not you and another random person. So the question is of course, was it even a valid ticket in the first place?

 

[yorkie]

You can use multiple tickets for one journey; the best thing to do if you are making one journey on multiple tickets is to book using a split ticket provider. You would then get one itinerary and one PDF, making any such claim incredibly easy. (Though this isn't possible if you are adding railcards and other passengers en-route, as in this case).

The issue with yours is that it looks like two journeys; one from Newtongrange to Newcastle for the purposes of visiting Newcastle for an hour and a half before continuing to Manchester. I don't think the average person would spend all that time in the station, unless of course they were visiting a pub within the station or similar such facility.

What also complicates matters is that you introduce a Railcard and additional passenger at Newcastle, which doesn't help the argument that it's all one journey.

I would say you can easily claim for just the TPE leg indisputably and it will be paid almost instantly, no hassle.

If you wish to claim it's all one journey but with an unusually large interchange time, you are welcome to attempt that claim and - at the current time - I am unaware of any exclusion precluding that (though if lots of people tried it, it wouldn't surprise me if one got introduced) but it may not be hassle-free and you may have to argue your case, and I cannot guarantee it would be successful.

 

[nitten_travell]

Two Together railcard is only valid when the 2 named cardholders are travelling together, not you and another random person

He may be random to most people but my travelling companion on Saturday was my dad! We do have a railcard (which I renewed shortly before departure).

The issue with yours is that it looks like two journeys; one from Newtongrange to Newcastle for the purposes of visiting Newcastle for an hour and a half before continuing to Manchester. I don't think the average person would spend all that time in the station, unless of course they were visiting a pub within the station or similar such facility.

What also complicates matters is that you introduce a Railcard and additional passenger at Newcastle, which doesn't help the argument that it's all one journey.

As it happens I did have lunch in the Centurion station pub at Newcastle, with the card receipt to show it, with my dad before setting off for Manchester. I take your point about looking like two journeys. That's one of the reasons why I created the post, to get the thoughts of those more skilled and experienced in dealing with these things. Thank you for your comments.

 

[WesternLancer]

He may be random to most people but my travelling companion on Saturday was my dad! We do have a railcard (which I renewed shortly before departure).



As it happens I did have lunch in the Centurion station pub at Newcastle, with the card receipt to show it, with my dad before setting off for Manchester. I take your point about looking like two journeys. That's one of the reasons why I created the post, to get the thoughts of those more skilled and experienced in dealing with these things. Thank you for your comments.

I tend to think a planned break of journey to do anything (day at the shops or 1 hour in a pub) means that you have made 2 trips - and it's not really in the spirit of the rules to apply for Delay - Repay for the whole trip - but I would claim for the delay caused by the cancelled TPE service. Had you had no intention to visit The Centurion but were 'forced to do so' by a cancellation I think that would be a different matter - but it sounds like that was not the case.

 

[peterblue]

I would personally avoid the hassle and just claim the delay repay on the last leg of the journey for £28.40

Claiming for the full journey would be a difficult and contrived process, regardless of if you win. You can expect to make multiple appeals going down that route.

 

[nitten_travell]

Had you had no intention to visit The Centurion but were 'forced to do so' by by a cancellation

Where do you think we returned when we realised that the 1543 had been cancelled?

I'm going to claim just for the TPE journey as it's a slam dunk. Might have been a different approach had just booked for myself (so no Two Together portion) and I used the "allow extra time" function of Trainsplit.

Thanks, all.

 

[Haywain]

Given that after your arrival at Newcastle there was a train to Manchester at 1447 that did run, and the cancellation of the 1543 was know at (and before) that time, I think it would be difficult to claim you were delayed by an hour.

 

[nitten_travell]

Given that after your arrival at Newcastle there was a train to Manchester at 1447 that did run, and the cancellation of the 1543 was know at (and before) that time, I think it would be difficult to claim you were delayed by an hour.

Agreed for the "journey" starting from Newtongrange but for the TPE leg in isolation then I can definitely claim for the hour's delay, the chap in the ticket office even gave me the claim form!