Delay Repay dispute on Thameslink

[johninstalbans]

Hi
My wife and I were delayed recently by a problem on Thameslink which caused us to miss by 20 minutes a connection on to Southern to reach our destination. Unfortunately, on a Sunday the latter service was hourly, so we arrived an hour late and claimed for Delay Repay expecting 100% refund on the outward fare - appropriate to 60+ minutes delay.
I was VERY surprised to be awarded only 50% and when I complained I was told that the later train to our destination was measured to have arrived ONE MINUTE EARLY, hence our delay was only 59 minutes, giving a 50% refund!
Of course I objected to this technical nonsense, partly on the basis that ALL trains must be expected to arrive at least a minute before the scheduled (usually departure) time - and have asked for evidence of the arrival time of the train we SHOULD have caught (hopefully also at least a minute early).
I have escalated this as an official complaint and am awaiting developments, but meanwhile I'd like to hear the opinion of those who know about such matters.
Thanks
John

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have had WMT do this and I appealed it basically asking them not to take the mick because every other train that day that wasn't cancelled had arrived one minute early and I therefore was in fact delayed exactly 30 minutes, and to their credit they did pay the full amount. However, in technical terms they're right, so good luck!

 

[jfollows]

Look up your train for yourself and see what is shown for its arrival time.
Delay Repay has to operate to rules and the definitions are strict and clear.

 

[johninstalbans]

Look up your train for yourself and see what is shown for its arrival time.

Where should I look it up?

 

[jfollows]

Where should I look it up?

https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/ for example

 

[mad_rich]

Extremely sneaky behaviour, but it's a natural consequence of the rigid way Delay Repay works. It's based on your actual arrival time, so if they can get that under an hour, it's worth their while to do so.

It's the same in any area of life: make a target important enough, and people will aim to hit that target to the exclusion of what it's actually trying to achieve.

 

[jfollows]

The railways have been advertising arrival times later than working timetable arrival times for years and years, specifically to make their performance figures better than they would otherwise be. It’s nothing new.

 

[island]

DelayRepay is based on delay actually incurred, so if you were actually 59 minutes late you get paid 30-59 mins. With any border like this there will always be some people who fall just the wrong side.

 

[johninstalbans]

"https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/ for example"

Ah thanks. That proves my point - ALL such trains that day arrived one minute early.

Clearly that's what is intended, but I can't see why that justifies denying an hour's delay for an hourly service running as intended.

 

[Hadders]

It's all rather sneaky but as I understand it this practice is someting the DfT have told train operators to do.

 

[Bill Badger]

I had the same issue with GWR on a recent journey. My appeal was rejected and my follow on complaint also turned down. I then asked for a deadlock letter as I thought this was something the Ombudsman might actually rule on as it certainly goes against the spirit of Delay Repay.

I response to my Deadlock Letter request I received a 'goodwill' payment, so it may be worth pursuing if you're willing to make the effort.

 

[johninstalbans]

Thanks Bill - I'll certainly bear that in mind. I find it hard to see how management justifies spending so much admin time in order to save a few pounds, while creating an aggrieved customer from a scheme intended to placate the annoyance of operating delays. As I have told them, the best advocate can be created from overlooking the technicalities in a justified claim. I generally find in such situations that this is understood once you reach a sufficiently senior level - but what is their cost by that time????? Luckily to me, as a retiree, I have unlimited time which is worth almost nothing!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks Bill - I'll certainly bear that in mind. I find it hard to see how management justifies spending so much admin time in order to save a few pounds, while creating an aggrieved customer from a scheme intended to placate the annoyance of operating delays. As I have told them, the best advocate can be created from overlooking the technicalities in a justified claim. I generally find in such situations that this is understood once you reach a sufficiently senior level - but what is their cost by that time????? Luckily to me, as a retiree, I have unlimited time which is worth almost nothing!

Good luck. But this is due to the government hostile environment policy for the railways that has been increasing since Covid. I expect that to continue further ref things like this when full govt ownership and control is in place unfortunately (even tho overall I support that plan in general terms)

Do please update on progress you make.

 

[Sonic1234]

It might have been cut back now, but at one time GTR's response to a complaint was to dole out a £10 voucher.

Maybe they've used up their quota of vouchers on unhappy customers being delayed at Brighton.

 

[johninstalbans]

Sonic 1234 said:

It might have been cut back now, but at one time GTR's response to a complaint was to dole out a £10 voucher.

Nearly a month (and several more exchanges) later, I have now been offered a goodwill voucher intended to make up the missing refund! Unfortunately they had miscalculated it, so it's gone back for further review!!!! Incidentally, they have also now agreed to look into my (accompanying) wife's matching claim - wonders will never cease!

Of course, there was a warning that it did not create a precedent!

Thanks for your help.

Edited 25 November 2024:

Lo and behold, today 3 repayments arrived in my bank, bringing the whole refund to just over my claim.

It's a good job my time is valueless (nowadays) - but I fear that Thameslink are substantially out of pocket if they were to realistically cost their multiple exchanges!

Over and out!