Delay repay denied when trains cancelled

[southy007]

Hi, looking for some advice.

We had tickets to travel for london euston - bare lane (Morecambe) on Sat 29/8 16:30.

The train made it to lancaster slightly behind due to a points failure.
All trains from lancaster were then held/cancelled due to this fault.
No trains ran to Morecambe as they were cancelled and we were told to make our way home ourselves.

I contacted Avanti who I bought the tickets through as one ticket. They say it's not their problem as it's the northern section that was not completed.

Northern have ignored emails but I did put a delay repay in as avanti said to do, but this has been denied as they say the train was not delayed!

Surely someone should refund the section that couldn't be used as they cancelled the trains, I ended up paying out for an Uber but just looking to get the small section recovered. Feels wrong if this happened often they'd make money not providing services.

Any help appreciated

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would send in what you've written above to Northern's customer services with the receipt for the Uber (you will be able to download this from in the Uber app as a PDF). If you were instructed to sort yourself out and that the railway would not provide taxis, then they should reimburse this. That's better for you than reimbursing the difference between a Euston-Lancaster and Euston-Bare Lane ticket which is likely to be a tiny sum or possibly even zero.

You would also in theory be entitled to Delay Repay in addition to this if the taxi got you to Bare Lane more than 15 minutes later than the train would have done, you could also mention this in your email as the automated systems may struggle with it.

 

[southy007]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. So the claim does lie with northern even though Avanti sold the ticket?
Thanks again

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. So the claim does lie with northern even though Avanti sold the ticket?
Thanks again

Yes.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. So the claim does lie with northern even though Avanti sold the ticket?
Thanks again

As mentioned up thread - You may need to consider both
- a claim for delay -repay
- a claim for the cost of your taxi (probably by contacting Customer services as suggested)

as separate claims

I think they would both be to Northern

Claims like these need to be made to the train company who caused the delay by not providing the expected train service, or replacement bus or taxi, not who you bought the ticket from

Make sure all claims submitted during the claim permitted window - which I think is 28 days from date of travel but do it asap (this would mean that if you have to further escalate it eg to Rail Ombudsman you have at least met that basic criteria)

Depending on how you get on head back here for more advice as things develop

If you want your draft message to Customer Services checking to see if people here can help with aspects of the wording (translation to railway speak) then feel free to post a draft of it here before you send it if that would be of help.

You will need to clearly list the times of the trains taken / intended to take (and if you can't find that info people here will be able to find it for you, or check the actual running times on the day for you to see how it differed from the planned travel itinerary)

EDIT - post #6 below puts the key points very clearly and I would suggest this is the advice to follow.

 

[Watershed]

Based on the timings, it looks like you were due to arrive in Lancaster at 18:55 and catch the 19:16 to Morecambe, due in at 19:28. Your train to Lancaster actually arrived at 19:07, so you would have been able to make your connection had the Northern train been running.

As such Avanti are correct to say you should be directing your claims to Northern; whilst their train was slightly delayed, it didn't materially impact your journey.

In a case like this where trains are suspended and you complete your journey by other means, you can choose whether to:

• Treat it as an abandoned journey and claim a refund of the unused portion of your ticket. You would claim this refund from the retailer where you bought your ticket - Avanti in this case
• Treat the other means as a continuation of your journey and claim Delay Repay if you arrived at your destination (or nearby) 15+ mins late, as well as reimbursement for your reasonable alternative transport expenses. This would be claimed from the operator at fault - Northern in this case

Given that you paid for an Uber it is probably better for you to go for the second approach. That said, it's possible you won't have been delayed enough to claim Delay Repay - it's only 15 mins by car from Lancaster to Morecambe.

So if you got in the Uber soon after you got off the Avanti train, you might not even have been 15 mins late. In that case you aren't eligible for Delay Repay and so I wouldn't appeal your denied Delay Repay claim.

If it took a while before it became clear that trains were suspended, or it took a while to get an Uber, then perhaps you would have been 15 or even 30 minutes late. In that case it would be worthwhile appealling your denied Delay Repay claim.

In either case, you would be entitled to claim back your reasonable expenses. Given there's a frequent bus service to Morecambe (every 15 mins on the 100 route, taking around 25 mins), which doesn't take a huge amount longer (~30 mins with the walk to the bus stop instead of 12 by train), Northern might say that the cost of an Uber is unreasonable and so they'll just pay for what the bus fare would have been (£3, presumably).

 

[Belperpete]

The critical thing in cases like these is to be clear WHAT you are claiming before you submit the claim, as that will affect who you should be submitting the claim to, and what you are likely to get (as outlined by Watershed).

The other thing is who exactly advised you to make your own way? And what was Northern telling people to do? If Northern were telling people (e.g. on their website or on Journey check or on the NRE disruptions page) to use local buses, then they may be unwilling to refund an expensive Uber fare.

Unfortunately staff can be caught between a rock and a hard place in such situations. They tell you the official line, to wait for replacement transport (which they know is going to take a loooong time to come). Or they give you practical advice, that you are best making your own arrangements (which you are unlikely to get refunded). And that assumes they know what the official line is, and that you have asked a representative of the right TOC. It pays to know what you are and are not entitled to in such situations.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 02:17 ==

Northern have ignored emails but I did put a delay repay in as avanti said to do, but this has been denied as they say the train was not delayed!

Bearing in mind your date of travel, and therefore the likely date that you sent your emails, I think you are being a bit presumptuous in saying they have ignored your emails. I suspect that they are still well within the allowable timeframe to respond. I suspect that if your email was as vague as your post on here, that might also be affecting their response time.

As to the DR claim, simply appeal their decision. It is not unusual for DR claims to be rejected initially, often for quite spurious reasons, and then accepted on appeal.

Surely someone should refund the section that couldn't be used as they cancelled the trains, I ended up paying out for an Uber but just looking to get the small section recovered. Feels wrong if this happened often they'd make money not providing services.

You could have gone for a refund of the last part of your journey. However, that might not get you much money, considering the difference in fare to Bare Lane compared to the equivalent to Lancaster. However, now that you have claimed delay repay, you can't also claim a refund. As I say, you need to be clear WHAT you want to claim BEFORE you submit.

And as Western Lancer has said, keep your claims for the delay repay and the reimbursement of your expenses separate. Claim for the delay through the standard DR system, based on the whole journey. Claim reimbursement of Uber fare for the last part of the journey by email to customer services. Don't complicate things by trying to do both together.