Delay Repay, Complain, or Something Else - No Announced Platform

[johnjdc]

Hello all,

It's not big money but it was annoying and I'm petty. To summarise:

• I was in London for work yesterday, origin of Oxford
• I intended to return on the 19.23 from Paddington
• I emerged from Bakerloo to Paddington Station concourse at 19.19
• There was no evidence of the 19.23 existing on the overhead boards
• I checked traintimes.org.uk - it existed, but no stated platform
• I dashed around for a few minutes looking for it / other boards
• I went into the travel help centre and explained my dilemma
• They said "that's odd, should have been... 5... wait 6... ah yeah it's left"
• I got the (delayed but it had no effect on my arrival) 19.30 to Weston Super Mare, changing at Reading
• Arrived in Oxford 21 minutes later than I would have on the 19.23

Sadly I have no meaningful evidence of these events other than a screenshot of traintimes.org.uk showing that even at 19.27 the 19.23 did not, in retrospect, have a recorded platform (and, presumably, my ticket exiting the tube and arriving at Oxford will show by their scanned times that I did not make the journey I could, with an announced platform, have made).

Thoughts?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Had a look on Darwin Browser for this:

1D38 London Paddington → Oxford · 24 Aug 2026 — Darwin Browser

Full operating history of UK National Rail service 1D38 (London Paddington → Oxford) on 24 Aug 2026, operated by GW. This service has completed. Replay every Darwin message, forecast, platform change and delay on an interactive timeline.

darwinbrowser.com

It appears the platform was posted at 19:08:36 and was suppressed (removed from the board) at 19:21:00 i.e. 2 minutes before departure, you can see that as platsup="true" in the XML history on that site. This is fairly standard practice at main termini to prevent last minute runners such as those discussed in another thread at the moment. Once suppressed it will no longer appear on apps that have a Darwin feed.

Was the 19:19 on your watch and it was maybe a couple of minutes slow?

For the future if you want last minute platforms that aren't suppressed Realtime Trains is where to look as it doesn't respect Darwin's suppression messages. Because it doesn't get information from Darwin, however, it can sometimes be wrong.

It was P4 by the way.

 

[Haywain]

Thoughts?

If you've arrived at a major London terminal 4 minutes or less before the scheduled departure time of a train, you have simply not left yourself enough time to guarantee that you will be on it. You have no right to Delay Repay and a complaint will get you nowhere. The best you can do is learn from it and try to allow yourself more time in future.

 

[styles]

Hello all,

It's not big money but it was annoying and I'm petty. To summarise:

• I was in London for work yesterday, origin of Oxford
• I intended to return on the 19.23 from Paddington
• I emerged from Bakerloo to Paddington Station concourse at 19.19
• There was no evidence of the 19.23 existing on the overhead boards
• I checked traintimes.org.uk - it existed, but no stated platform
• I dashed around for a few minutes looking for it / other boards
• I went into the travel help centre and explained my dilemma
• They said "that's odd, should have been... 5... wait 6... ah yeah it's left"
• I got the (delayed but it had no effect on my arrival) 19.30 to Weston Super Mare, changing at Reading
• Arrived in Oxford 21 minutes later than I would have on the 19.23

Sadly I have no meaningful evidence of these events other than a screenshot of traintimes.org.uk showing that even at 19.27 the 19.23 did not, in retrospect, have a recorded platform (and, presumably, my ticket exiting the tube and arriving at Oxford will show by their scanned times that I did not make the journey I could, with an announced platform, have made).

Thoughts?

The minimum connection time at Paddington is 15 minutes. You left what appears to be less than 4 minutes. Bearing in mind GWR close doors at Paddington around 40 seconds before departure, I don't think there's a reasonable expectation to get from the Bakerloo platforms to platform 4 where your Oxford train left in under 3 minutes. That's actually less than the minimum connection time at even minor stations.

You can apply for compensation but I'm sorry to say I don't think you'll have much luck.

I say this as somebody who often turns up at major London termini with a few minutes to spare. I'm taking a risk by doing so.

You can complain about the train being removed from the boards but I suspect the reply will be as @Bletchleyite describes - to avoid people running for trains at the last second, both preventing a timely departure and also creating a hazardous situation.

 

[johnjdc]

Was the 19:19 on your watch and it was maybe a couple of minutes slow?

Thanks - 19.19 by my phone which should always be correct. If I'd expected the timing to be a problem I would have got off the Bakerloo at Marylebone for the next direct train, I wasn't particularly in a rush, which is the only consolation here.

If you've arrived at a major London terminal 4 minutes or less before the scheduled departure time of a train, you have simply not left yourself enough time to guarantee that you will be on it.

I would agree that 4 minutes very probably isn't enough time if that's when I'm on an arriving train at a different platform, or if 19.19 is when I was arriving at the underground platform.

I disagree that 4 minutes isn't long enough to... literally walk through a barrier from the concourse. If it had been on Platform 14 then sure maybe I'm SOL, but it wasn't.

In any event, if I miss the train because I miss the train, I'll suck it up. If I miss the train because the train's location is made an official secret, I'm less content. I have never encountered this "disappearing platform" phenomenon before.

I don't think there's a reasonable expectation to get from the Bakerloo platforms to platform 4 where your Oxford train left in under 3 minutes.

Thanks, for clarity I arrived on the main station concourse at 19.19. I arrived at the Bakerloo line platform at 19.16 and then walked briskly as I realised I didn't have as long as I had anticipated.

I'm not sure why I wasn't earlier, the Bakerloo didn't feel delayed but when I set off from Lambeth North I was confident of being in loads of time (indeed I was thinking "If this takes under 20 minutes I may even have time to pop to the Sainsbury's for some snacks").

For the future if you want last minute platforms that aren't suppressed Realtime Trains is where to look as it doesn't respect Darwin's suppression messages. Because it doesn't get information from Darwin, however, it can sometimes be wrong.

It was P4 by the way.

Thanks.

 

[styles]

Thanks, for clarity I arrived on the main station concourse at 19.19. I arrived at the Bakerloo line platform at 19.16 and then walked briskly as I realised I didn't have as long as I had anticipated.

I'm not sure why I wasn't earlier, the Bakerloo didn't feel delayed but when I set off from Lambeth North I was confident of being in loads of time (indeed I was thinking "If this takes under 20 minutes I may even have time to pop to the Sainsbury's for some snacks").

I appreciate the predicament you ended up in - I used to live in London and I would regularly turn up at major termini with only a few minutes to spare. But if I'd been unable to catch a train because I'd left less than the minimum connection time I'd think that's fair game. I know it's annoying, but I don't think there's much recourse to be had here.

 

[Haywain]

I disagree that 4 minutes isn't long enough to... literally walk through a barrier from the concourse.

In spite of the available evidence suggesting otherwise?

 

[redreni]

I would certainly complain about the train being removed from the boards. You won't get anywhere but the people who make these decisions ought to be made aware how much they're annoying people. My attitude is very much 'you tell me which platform and when, then I will judge if I can make it sensibly and safely and without having an accident'.

If I have to lose 30 or 40s finding out from RTT what plaform the train's going from, then if I do try and get there, the whole thing will be even more last minute than it otherwise might have been.

As for the "allow more time" chestnut, it's a turn-up-and go service, you get there when you get there, and it is annoying not to get on a train and have to wait for the next purely because somebody removed it from the board in order to prevent you catching it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Tuesday at 15:08 ==

In spite of the available evidence suggesting otherwise?

I think the OP means it would be long enough if the train remained on the board long enough for him to see which platform to go to. As a regular user of the station I agree.

I'm not sure what the 5G situation is like on the Bakerloo line these days, but when I arrive at Paddington via the Elizabeth Line I always check the platform before I get off the Elizabeth Line to make the transfer. Can't rely on the boards at Paddington - they want you to be early and if you're not, they don't want you rushing as others have pointed out.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it was removed from the boards manually before Darwin's suppression message 2 minutes out, I wonder if it was perhaps full and standing and so impossible for anyone else to board? It was a 5 car and the first off peak service so it could well have been. The one after was a 9 so you probably got a more comfortable journey.

 

[styles]

I would certainly complain about the train being removed from the boards. You won't get anywhere but the people who make these decisions ought to be made aware how much they're annoying people. My attitude is very much 'you tell me which platform and when, then I will judge if I can make it sensibly and safely and without having an accident'.

If I have to lose 30 or 40s finding out from RTT what plaform the train's going from, then if I do try and get there, the whole thing will be even more last minute than it otherwise might have been.

As for the "allow more time" chestnut, it's a turn-up-and go service, you get there when you get there, and it is annoying not to get on a train and have to wait for the next purely because somebody removed it from the board in order to prevent you catching it.

To counter this somewhat - GWR, like most other operators not just in the UK but in many countries, close their doors a little while before departure.

We have another thread on the forum of a couple of lassies being denied boarding, also at Paddington for what it's worth, because they turned up too late to board. OP here left around 3 minutes to get from the Bakerloo platforms to platform 4 at Paddington and this is below the minimum connection time. The industry doesn't want to encourage people running through railway stations because it's dangerous - both for themselves and for others.

I don't think it's particularly unreasonable to remove departures briefly before their scheduled departure time, because it is meant to aid safety.

Yeah, it sucks missing a train, but it sucks even more if you end up trapped in doors or die on electrified rails.

 

[redreni]

To counter this somewhat - GWR, like most other operators not just in the UK but in many countries, close their doors a little while before departure.

We have another thread on the forum of a couple of lassies being denied boarding, also at Paddington for what it's worth, because they turned up too late to board. OP here left around 3 minutes to get from the Bakerloo platforms to platform 4 at Paddington and this is below the minimum connection time. The industry doesn't want to encourage people running through railway stations because it's dangerous - both for themselves and for others.

I don't think it's particularly unreasonable to remove departures briefly before their scheduled departure time, because it is meant to aid safety.

Yeah, it sucks missing a train, but it sucks even more if you end up trapped in doors or die on electrified rails.

I get that but you just end up with people running through stations looking at their phones. Especially if you take things off the board manually when all the apps are still showing them.

Personally I never run yet I still regularly catch trains that had been taken off the boards before I arrived at the station - the screens at the top of Elizabeth Line escalators are particularly bad for this. So the cut-offs are set so as to thwart people walking sensibly and catching their train, not just people who are going to run and cause problems. I accept it's something one just has to work around by checking the platform prior to arrival if intending to make a quick transfer, but I do think it's overdone to the point where it's unhelpful in many places.

I see a lot of people dawdling because the next train was showing as 9 minutes away and then running once they see there's a train at the platform, when if the departure board had told them the truth they could have walked briskly and caught it.

 

[blimmo]

To counter this somewhat - GWR, like most other operators not just in the UK but in many countries, close their doors a little while before departure.

And this is also a stupid practice: the time that appears on public timetables should be the last time you can board the train.

 

[Haywain]

And this is also a stupid practice: the time that appears on public timetables should be the last time you can board the train.

Well, it isn't and hasn't been for many years.

 

[styles]

And this is also a stupid practice: the time that appears on public timetables should be the last time you can board the train.

It's the departure time. It's always been advertised as such. In any country on the planet, rocking up say 20 seconds before a planned departure of an intercity service is, what I would say, unreasonable. I'd never do it and I don't know anybody else who would either. The most sympathy may be gained from somewhere like Japan but even they will not hang around.

 

[johnjdc]

OP here left around 3 minutes to get from the Bakerloo platforms to platform 4 at Paddington and this is below the minimum connection time.

At risk of repeating myself (or of being corrected by someone with access to the Bakerloo line actuals), 7 minutes from the Bakerloo platforms. 4 minutes from the station concourse. I appreciate this is still below the "minimum connection time" but from the perspective of the railways I wasn't "connecting", I was just "arriving at the station".

I wonder if it was perhaps full and standing and so impossible for anyone else to board? It was a 5 car and the first off peak service so it could well have been.

Interesting hypothesis!

The one after was a 9 so you probably got a more comfortable journey.

I got the 19.30 to Weston Super Mare, changing at Reading. It was busy but not so busy I was standing, in both cases.

the time that appears on public timetables should be the last time you can board the train.

At a complete tangent, Eurostar passengers seem to get both of these depending which timetable information they're using and it causes no end of confusion with people who think their booked train suddenly no longer exists.

In spite of the available evidence suggesting otherwise?

What I meant was, I think 4 minutes is plenty of time to walk through a barrier and get on a train, provided you aren't playing hide and seek on the question of which barrier and which train!

 

[Watershed]

Looking at the historical view of that service on Darwin Browser (created by @MrJeeves - thanks!), the train was shown as departing from platform 4 from 19:08:36 until 19:21:00. At that point, 2 minutes before the scheduled departure time, the platform was automatically 'suppressed', i.e. no longer shown on station departure boards or other sources that use the industry's Darwin service.

So if you arrived at the concourse at 19:19, it ought still to have been advertised as platform 4 at that point until 19:21:00. However I believe that individual stations' or operators' information controllers can override what is shown in Darwin, so it's possible that it wasn't listed for whatever reason.

I imagine that GWR would try to deny any Delay Repay claim on the basis that the train ran on time, and that it's up to you to make it onto it.

Personally speaking think that the industry's practice of hiding platforms and sometimes even closing barriers 2 minutes before departure at major stations is unnecessary in the first place - it doesn't happen in countries where the railways are customer-focused, as the advertised departure time is the latest time you can board. It's a very operations/KPI-focused mindset to force customers to work out the latest boarding time for themselves.

It's especially problematic given that these cutoffs vary arbitrarily by operator and station, and aren't shown on your ticket or otherwise pointed out to you at the time of buying your ticket. In most countries where railways do insist on this kind of backward practice, the latest boarding time is generally printed on your ticket and/or booking confirmation, so you know where you stand.

In Britain, you would only know about the 'rule' if you happen to have been to a particular station and seen the signs before, or if you are browsing the operator's website and happen to come across that section. There's nothing in the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT) saying you need to be at the station any particular amount of time before departure for example.

It's probably not worth pursuing too far over what is likely a small amount of compensation at stake (12.5% of your ticket if it was a return, or 25% if a single) but I'd completely understand if you want to raise a complaint with GWR about it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So if you arrived at the concourse at 19:19, it ought still to have been advertised as platform 4 at that point until 19:21:00. However I believe that individual stations' or operators' information controllers can override what is shown in Darwin, so it's possible that it wasn't listed for whatever reason.

As it was 5 car and the first off peak train I think there is a reasonable chance it was pulled because it was already full and standing with nobody else physically able to board. Fast Oxfords are generally very busy if they are a 5 car.

 

[Watershed]

As it was 5 car and the first off peak train I think there is a reasonable chance it was pulled because it was already full and standing with nobody else physically able to board. Fast Oxfords are generally very busy if they are a 5 car.

That doesn't change anything with respect to what I said.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That doesn't change anything with respect to what I said.

It is an example of a case where...

individual stations' or operators' information controllers can override what is shown in Darwin, so it's possible that it wasn't listed for whatever reason.

The reason being that even if the original poster knew where it was they wouldn't be able to board it.

It would of course be useful to know that, as being unable to board due to overcrowding is a valid Delay Repay claim.

 

[yorkie]

It's the departure time. It's always been advertised as such. In any country on the planet, rocking up say 20 seconds before a planned departure of an intercity service is, what I would say, unreasonable. I'd never do it and I don't know anybody else who would either. The most sympathy may be gained from somewhere like Japan but even they will not hang around.

In most countries I've been to (nearly all of which offer far more affordable and customer-focussed railways than in GB), in my experience the advertised time seems to be the time up to which you can board. GB is a bit of an outlier in that respect. But this is a separate debate, and it's been discussed in other threads.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:53 ==

Hello all,

It's not big money but it was annoying and I'm petty. To summarise:

• I was in London for work yesterday, origin of Oxford
• I intended to return on the 19.23 from Paddington
• I emerged from Bakerloo to Paddington Station concourse at 19.19
• There was no evidence of the 19.23 existing on the overhead boards
• I checked traintimes.org.uk - it existed, but no stated platform
• I dashed around for a few minutes looking for it / other boards
• I went into the travel help centre and explained my dilemma
• They said "that's odd, should have been... 5... wait 6... ah yeah it's left"
• I got the (delayed but it had no effect on my arrival) 19.30 to Weston Super Mare, changing at Reading
• Arrived in Oxford 21 minutes later than I would have on the 19.23

Sadly I have no meaningful evidence of these events other than a screenshot of traintimes.org.uk showing that even at 19.27 the 19.23 did not, in retrospect, have a recorded platform (and, presumably, my ticket exiting the tube and arriving at Oxford will show by their scanned times that I did not make the journey I could, with an announced platform, have made).

Thoughts?

If it was definitely off the boards at 1919, you should complain about that.

But a Delay Repay claim isn't realistically going to have any jolpe of succeeding.

Next time you're at Paddington, when you regain signal and are on your way up towards the platforms, try this:

https://tiger.worldline.global/PADTON/ciss

It's worth also checking other sources too, e.g. Realtimetrains will have the expected platform of trains even if they are taken off more 'official' sources, as well as before they are shown, but - as others have said - it may not always get platform alterations that may only be in Darwin and not always in open data feed sources.

 

[mikeb42]

The minimum connection time at Paddington is 15 minutes. Enough time to briskly walk from Marylebone...

Abiding by this means the railway wastes the amount of your life it takes to drive 18 miles on the M4 at quieter times of the day essentially every time you use the station - handsomely charging you for the privilege.

If you're as keen on this as I am you can take this advice:

"The best you can do is learn from it and try to allow yourself more time in future"

or the alternative view:

"The best you can do is learn from it and try to allow yourself more time in future" use a combination of Traksy, realtimetrains and Tiger to equip yourself with as much info as possible in advance to get around the railway's attempts to waste your time.

The Elizabeth Line is the best way to arrive at Paddington from very many locations, changing as necessary, as it has mobile data coverage and runs to a viewable timetable down to 30 second resolution. Some of the time it even sticks to it. I can get from the 8th set of doors from the rear of a westbound train to on board a train on platforms 1-9 at Paddington in 60 seconds without running.

If you've another 90 seconds to spare it can be worth going down platform 1 to use the overbridge as you're less likely to encounter gateline stupidity and will end up closer to the front of full length trains with more hope of getting on.

Obviously sometimes it isn't going to work and you have to be prepared to fail. Also, it's more problematic at the height of rush hour as the Paddington concourse is like the central circulation zone for the damned in a zombie apocalypse.

However, knowledge is still power.

 

[Skiddaw]

The minimum connection time at Paddington is 15 minutes. Enough time to briskly walk from Marylebone...

Abiding by this means the railway wastes the amount of your life it takes to drive 18 miles on the M4 at quieter times of the day essentially every time you use the station - handsomely charging you for the privilege.

If you're as keen on this as I am you can take this advice:

"The best you can do is learn from it and try to allow yourself more time in future"

or the alternative view:

"The best you can do is learn from it and try to allow yourself more time in future" use a combination of Traksy, realtimetrains and Tiger to equip yourself with as much info as possible in advance to get around the railway's attempts to waste your time.

The Elizabeth Line is the best way to arrive at Paddington from very many locations, changing as necessary, as it has mobile data coverage and runs to a viewable timetable down to 30 second resolution. Some of the time it even sticks to it. I can get from the 8th set of doors from the rear of a westbound train to on board a train on platforms 1-9 at Paddington in 60 seconds without running.

If you've another 90 seconds to spare it can be worth going down platform 1 to use the overbridge as you're less likely to encounter gateline stupidity and will end up closer to the front of full length trains with more hope of getting on.

Obviously sometimes it isn't going to work and you have to be prepared to fail. Also, it's more problematic at the height of rush hour as the Paddington concourse is like the central circulation zone for the damned in a zombie apocalypse.

However, knowledge is still power.

That really did make me laugh out loud!!

 

[Haywain]

The minimum connection time at Paddington is 15 minutes. Enough time to briskly walk from Marylebone...

Abiding by this means the railway wastes the amount of your life it takes to drive 18 miles on the M4 at quieter times of the day essentially every time you use the station - handsomely charging you for the privilege.

You don't have to abide by minimum connection times if you don't want to, you just have to accept that the railway doesn't give you any guarantees of making connections or being compensated if you fail to make them.