Delay Repay claims rejected

[furlong]

In the real world it's one of those grey areas. You should appeal with your explanation as to why you didn't take that train and saying which train you did use.

What you'll find is if a train is just a few minutes late, staff often do still attempt to apply restrictions based on what the timetable says, but once the delay gets a bit bigger they don't bother. E.g. Can you catch a 9.29am service that departs a minute late at 9.30am? Strictly yes but in reality it's best not to. In reality, overcrowding and the proximity of alternative services are also considerations.

 

[BurtonM]

I had the following DR claim rejected by SWR today - before I spend time sending back an appeal, can someone let me know who's correct?



My ticket was an off peak travel card bought with an Annual Gold card discount, which is of course only valid for trains after 9.30am. So presumably I wouldn't have been able to get on the delayed 0916 train, given it was before this time? And I'm sure I've asked in the past when a similar situation happened and I was told technically I couldn't get on the delayed 0916 as my ticket wouldn't be valid?

This doesn't sound right to me. You were travelling on the itinerary for the 0936 departure and any Delay Repay claim should only be calculated based on delayed arrival time at your destination based on that itinerary.

The calculations should assume that all other services are running to time, even if they're not - as in effect, the claim has been rejected on the grounds that 'you could have got an earlier train', which is nonsense.
It sounds to me like they've taken your planned arrival time based on the 0936 itinerary running to time, and said that even the delayed 0916 only made you 7 minutes behind that. But the 0916 doesn't come into your claim.
There's no logic to this- if they think you should have taken the 0916, then it was 22 minutes late at Waterloo, and they should compensate for that itinerary, or they should approve the claim based on delay to the 0936 itinerary.

 

[AlterEgo]

You were travelling on the itinerary for the 0936 departure and any Delay Repay claim should only be calculated based on delayed arrival time at your destination based on that itinerary.

That is correct.

The calculations should assume that all other services are running to time

No, they shouldn't. They will take into account what other trains the OP could have taken. That seems entirely fair to me.

even if they're not - as in effect, the claim has been rejected on the grounds that 'you could have got an earlier train', which is nonsense.

(The train arrived at Basingstoke *after 0936* and the OP should have got on it to minimise their delay; they let it go because they didn't understand the restriction on their ticket)

Essentially, OP turns up for their train, contracted arrival time is 1026, the railway provides a service which gets them there at 1033.

 

[kristiang85]

This doesn't sound right to me. You were travelling on the itinerary for the 0936 departure and any Delay Repay claim should only be calculated based on delayed arrival time at your destination based on that itinerary.

The calculations should assume that all other services are running to time, even if they're not - as in effect, the claim has been rejected on the grounds that 'you could have got an earlier train', which is nonsense.
It sounds to me like they've taken your planned arrival time based on the 0936 itinerary running to time, and said that even the delayed 0916 only made you 7 minutes behind that. But the 0916 doesn't come into your claim.
There's no logic to this- if they think you should have taken the 0916, then it was 22 minutes late at Waterloo, and they should compensate for that itinerary, or they should approve the claim based on delay to the 0936 itinerary.

Ah so if I had put on the claim I was originally intending to get the 0916 train (which would have been a tad dishonest), I probably would have received the DR? But hey ho it's only £3 or so, so I'm not losing sleep over it, it's just the principle that's a tad annoying.

Thanks for the insight!

 

[sot]

Could it be argued that there was never intent to use the 916 service due to the invalidity of a discounted ticket. Then out of fear of penalty fare for using a service that was timed to not be allowed for the discount the passenger used the next available service?

 

[ChilliSauce]

As far as I can tell, the Annual Gold Card discount is not valid for travel between 0430-0929. There is no mention of scheduled time. The restrictions on the ticket say not valid on trains timed to arrive at Waterloo before 1000, so it looks like it was valid on the 0916 because it departed after 0930 and was due to arrive at Waterloo after 1000.

My thoughts in this are does "timed to arrive" mean the time in the formal timetable ? Or the time it will arrive on that occasion because of late running ?

Certainly I have heard it announced at Wakefield Westgate when a Leeds / London has turned up so late that it is actually in the path of the "next Leeds / London" that customers with timed tickets for that "next Leeds / London" have been told that they must wait and use that train as that is the train their timed ticket is valid on.

Of course a total rubbish situation for the customer as rather than try and get as many people as possible to their destination on-time ..the TOC has just opened the box on Train Delay Repay Claims ...

 

[Haywain]

My thoughts in this are does "timed to arrive" mean the time in the formal timetable ? Or the time it will arrive on that occasion because of late running ?

Either way it was always arriving after 1000, so the strict meaning is irrelevant to the OP.

 

[sot]

I had the following DR claim rejected by SWR today - before I spend time sending back an appeal, can someone let me know who's correct?



My ticket was an off peak travel card bought with an Annual Gold card discount, which is of course only valid for trains after 9.30am. So presumably I wouldn't have been able to get on the delayed 0916 train, given it was before this time? And I'm sure I've asked in the past when a similar situation happened and I was told technically I couldn't get on the delayed 0916 as my ticket wouldn't be valid?

For reference:

"Annual Gold Card discounted tickets are not valid for travel between 04:30 – 09:29 Monday to Friday (except Public Holidays).

For clarity, Annual Gold Card discounted tickets can be used for travel at or after 09:30 Monday to Friday and any time at the weekend or on Public Holidays."

 

[MikeWh]

Certainly I have heard it announced at Wakefield Westgate when a Leeds / London has turned up so late that it is actually in the path of the "next Leeds / London" that customers with timed tickets for that "next Leeds / London" have been told that they must wait and use that train as that is the train their timed ticket is valid on.

That will be talking about advance tickets only valid on the specific train, which is a different scenario to this thread.

 

[kristiang85]

For reference:

"Annual Gold Card discounted tickets are not valid for travel between 04:30 – 09:29 Monday to Friday (except Public Holidays).

For clarity, Annual Gold Card discounted tickets can be used for travel at or after 09:30 Monday to Friday and any time at the weekend or on Public Holidays."

Yes, it's clear I've been mistaken all these years and it seems the railcard restriction is about the time of travel rather than the scheduled train time. Unlike off peak tickets which I believe *are* based are on the scheduled train time? (i.e. if it was the 0816 that was delayed arriving at my station until after 0930 - which has happened on occasion! - my off peak GC ticket *would not* have been valid, but as it was the off peak 0916 then that was fine for my situation?).

 

[sot]

Yes, it's clear I've been mistaken all these years and it seems the railcard restriction is about the time of travel rather than the scheduled train time. Unlike off peak tickets which I believe *are* based are on the scheduled train time? (i.e. if it was the 0816 that was delayed arriving at my station until after 0930 - which has happened on occasion! - my off peak GC ticket *would not* have been valid, but as it was the off peak 0916 then that was fine for my situation?).

I am sure however that a sufficiently unfriendly guard may not know the rules and try to PF you regardless

But yes it seems to just be restricted on time, obviously so long as the NGC is valid on the service (not Avanti, not XC north of Banbury etc)

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, it's clear I've been mistaken all these years and it seems the railcard restriction is about the time of travel rather than the scheduled train time. Unlike off peak tickets which I believe *are* based are on the scheduled train time?

Most are, but some are worded "valid after xx:xx" and not "trains timed to arrive after xx:xx" for example.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Yes, the long-standing rule is that, with the ticket type you had (which is flexible between trains), you can board any train after 0930, no matter what its scheduled time was. Advanced fares (which this wasn't) are tied to the particular train on which they are booked irrespective of the actual time the train appears, unless staff/TOC declare that it can be used later/earlier.

 

[Haywain]

you can board any train after 0930, no matter what its scheduled time was.

It is the railcard that imposes the 0930 restriction, the ticket was valid on trains arriving into London after 1000 if no discount was applied.

 

[BurtonM]

It is the railcard that imposes the 0930 restriction, the ticket was valid on trains arriving into London after 1000 if no discount was applied.

If this is the case then DR should only be calculated based on the 0936 itinerary.

 

[Haywain]

If this is the case then DR should only be calculated based on the 0936 itinerary.

The claim has been decided on the basis that the OP intended to catch the 09:36 train, and subsequently could have caught the late running 09:16 service, as this left Basingstoke after 09:36 and was therefore available to the OP.

 

[redreni]

Ah so if I had put on the claim I was originally intending to get the 0916 train (which would have been a tad dishonest), I probably would have received the DR? But hey ho it's only £3 or so, so I'm not losing sleep over it, it's just the principle that's a tad annoying.

Thanks for the insight!

Well, no, because for the purpose of a delay repay claim, intending to use a train means intending to use it on the assumption it runs as scheduled. You couldn't legitimately use that train unless it was late enough for you to board it no earlier than 09:30.

They're expecting you to minimise your delay unless a ticket or Railcard restriction prevents you.