If you have an ALR, the price of that ALR is usually pro-rated and an assumption is made you used it for one return journey per day, much like a season ticket. The walk-up fares don't come into it.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Delay Repay claims rejected
- Thread starter yorkie
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
So a delay from say Bedminster to Bristol Temple Meads would attract the same Delay Repay as from London to Edinburgh?
That's correct. The public fares available for walk-up don't come into it.
Haywain
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 24,480
If vouchers are used they form part of the payment and have no impact on the price paid. They only constitute a discount in your mind!
Yes. It’s just how it’s calculated and I think it’s a reasonable happy medium. Most rovers like the ALR are worked out based upon 10 journeys, so an hour delay would yield 1/10th of the price paid.
LNER approved a claim last week for a service that ran around 45 minutes late between Edinburgh and Aberdeen and paid 1/20th of the ticket price, about £45 or there abouts.
Not sure how they’re supposed to calculate Rovers but when I’ve claimed, they’ve treated it as a return ticket,
I was delayed by an hour and got 1/6 of the total cost back on a 3 in 7.
I was delayed by an hour on a 1 day rover and got 50% back.
It's the same with a one day Travelcard in London. It's treated as a return ticket if you're delayed on NR services.
I had a mixture of using the Anytime Return and 1/7th of the price.
This is general custom and practice yes, although there is nothing written down on the passenger side that you can use to enforce this.
The National Rail site here does suggest how delay compensation on rangers and rovers is to be calculated. I’ve only spotted this quite recently so it may be a new addition to wording but it’s always been the case as far as I know.
I’ve never had any operator try to do anything different when they’ve finally accepted, unlike some operators who try to give you back the price of a single from Leeds to Harrogate when your ticket is London to Harrogate and they cancel the train from Leeds.
miklcct
Established Member
Does the same compensation guideline apply to other zonal tickets, such as Travelcards?
I've got stuck in a ping-pong between XC and Avanti, with both sides insisting that the other is at fault. Avanti service was delayed so the XC connection would have been missed, but that was also late enough to actually catch, but it was too full to board.
dvboy
Established Member
Had one rejected by WMR for Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton on 18 October (cancelled train due to signal failure at Wellington, routed via Crewe and incurred further delays)
Asked to clarify the journey and sent it back with exactly the same details and they paid out.
Asked to clarify the journey and sent it back with exactly the same details and they paid out.
I think I’d accept that sort of thing is a bit complicated and I’d understand an initial back and forth however if the minimum connection time at the connecting station was met then I’d suggest XC are liable here.
Has anyone had any luck with an ombudsman case against 2 operators simultaneously where the ombudsman makes a decision who is liable?
Northern have rejected a delay repay claim I recently made as I didn’t provide journey details that matched my ticket
There is a reason behind this, my ticket being Starbeck - Destination however I caught the 18:06 from Harrogate on this occasion which starts at Harrogate so I’m a bit stuck!
There is a reason behind this, my ticket being Starbeck - Destination however I caught the 18:06 from Harrogate on this occasion which starts at Harrogate so I’m a bit stuck!
Have you got such a case on the go at the moment? (if so @All Line Rover may be interested to hear about it)
Northern are constantly on the fiddle; they told me I didn't travel, and therefore I should seek a refund from the retailer. However anyone who does as they suggest could be done for fraud, as a refund request would not be legitimate.
If Northern are refusing to pay out, you can ask them if you are in "deadlock" and, if so, take it to the Ombudsman.
I’ve just had to threaten Avanti with legal action (sadly not the first time) for outright refusal to pay delay repay compensation on an All line Rover. They’re wanting proof I travelled, proof I paid for the ticket, bank statements and the likes. The railway is a hostile and dirty place isn’t it.
I believe that department is outsourced as I have had a similar refusal and request from GWR too with almost identical wording and roughly the same time frame apart though we haven’t quite got to the same point with that one yet.
To be let down by the railway so frequently is bad enough, to then have to put in so much effort, and not forgetting the requirement for huge amounts of knowledge on the subject to get the compensation deserved shows the railway up for what it really is. The company car I bought last year has saved over £20,000 in rail tickets in 19 months. Reliability in work based travel is up through the roof. We’ve also saved nearly £4000 in hotel bills where it has been suitable to drive after the event when trains would not have been appropriate or possible.
Alas, we carry on.
I believe that department is outsourced as I have had a similar refusal and request from GWR too with almost identical wording and roughly the same time frame apart though we haven’t quite got to the same point with that one yet.
To be let down by the railway so frequently is bad enough, to then have to put in so much effort, and not forgetting the requirement for huge amounts of knowledge on the subject to get the compensation deserved shows the railway up for what it really is. The company car I bought last year has saved over £20,000 in rail tickets in 19 months. Reliability in work based travel is up through the roof. We’ve also saved nearly £4000 in hotel bills where it has been suitable to drive after the event when trains would not have been appropriate or possible.
Alas, we carry on.
What were the grounds for refusal, if you don’t mind my asking?
Initially that delay repay isn't due on Rovers, but then more recently it seems to be accepted that it is and we've sunken into a refusal to pay without bank statements, proof that i was at the locations etc. I could probably go through and gather SOME of that sort of info but i'm incredibly reluctant to do that on principle that it isn't required. I've sent a bonus photo of my ticket with a post it note attached with the CR reference number written on it to eliminate any idea that i don't have the actual ticket which i consider above and beyond. That has not been accepted.
I wouldn't say i'm trying to be difficult, or more accurately, no more difficult than them.
Elecman
Established Member
I’ve got an ongoing argument with Avanti regarding a claim for a train due to arrive dead on the hour that they say the train was only 14 minutes late but I’ve sent them a video taken on the train of the train still running down the platform with the station clocks showing the time to be xx.15 1/2 minutes past the hour so patently over 15 minutes late.
CharlieSpotted
Member
- Joined
- 21 May 2014
- Messages
- 959
Surely on such marginal cases, it's better to just give the passenger the benefit of the doubt, for the sake of a bit of goodwill, rather than arguing the toss ...
... or at least, that's what you would do in any B2C environment anywhere other than the railway.
Elecman
Established Member
You would have thought so given the incontrovertible video of the train still moving and showing the station clock
I've had to claim lots of times from Thameslink and EMR, because they have so many delays and cancellations, obviously. I've never been asked to deface a ticket that I've scanned/photographed but they are nearly all day tickets which are already out of date at the time of the claim. The only claims that I've had rejected are e.g. when I thought I was 15 minutes late but they say only 14.
If I know that my train is late I always ask at the manned exit barrier if I can keep my ticket for a Delay Repay claim and I've never had that refused - I recommend everyone doing that as it simplfiies the claim.
I've also had a successful claim from Thameslink when using my credit card contactlessly, but when the only evidence I had was a credit card statement, because the TfL server has been down since their hacking attemp many weeks ago. This took longer, I guess it had to be approved manually, but I got the money eventually.
I also had a good experience recently when we got delayed on a Piccadilly line train from Heathrow to King's Cross - lots of Picc line problems in recent weeks apparently. My Oyster card record showed that I was over 20 mins late into London for which I expected some small amount of compensation, but they refunded me the whole cost of the journey, which was generous.
If I know that my train is late I always ask at the manned exit barrier if I can keep my ticket for a Delay Repay claim and I've never had that refused - I recommend everyone doing that as it simplfiies the claim.
I've also had a successful claim from Thameslink when using my credit card contactlessly, but when the only evidence I had was a credit card statement, because the TfL server has been down since their hacking attemp many weeks ago. This took longer, I guess it had to be approved manually, but I got the money eventually.
I also had a good experience recently when we got delayed on a Piccadilly line train from Heathrow to King's Cross - lots of Picc line problems in recent weeks apparently. My Oyster card record showed that I was over 20 mins late into London for which I expected some small amount of compensation, but they refunded me the whole cost of the journey, which was generous.
Of course it was, unless it was a game to them and the primary focus is profit regardless of the long term effects on passengers.
You have to wonder if the operators knowing they’re all on borrowed time will use it to their advantage to extract what they can from passengers without really caring for the consequences. Although it feels like given the way they’re currently funded anyway they’ve been at it this way for years.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
<<<Update>>>
we are now at the same stage with GWR. Almost identical wording as if following rules from a screen when typing. As such it is clear the system is deliberately setup to minimise payouts and refuse payouts for reasons they have made up. This isn’t a member of staff not understanding the rules this is several members of staff following incorrect rules.
I find it every bit as interesting as I do annoying actually. To see the process, to see what they’re told to say, to see how far an operator is willing to go to avoid paying what is legally due in compensation.
No direct issues with the staff of course, replies are always polite.
Last edited:
allotments
Member
recently used my helmet cam arriving in Cambridge as the train crawled up the platform and found that the arrival time recorded and published on realtimetrains was a minute earlier than actual as displayed on station clocks
Update on this, XC admitted liability once the ombudsman got involved.
PG
Established Member
Did the ombudsman actually do anything or was it because the matter got as far as the ombudsman that resulted in XC capitulating?
Egg Centric
Established Member
Just sent this email to LNER:
Nothing particularly interesting about this and I'm sure I'll get it eventually - it's just another straw for the camel's back.
Nothing particularly interesting about this and I'm sure I'll get it eventually - it's just another straw for the camel's back.
D1537
Established Member
What was the delay on each section?
- Status