Delay Repay claims rejected

[Class800]

I had a claim rejected by Northern because, on the form I had to fill in, I accidentally chose a different train than the northern one, (I chose the 17:11 instead of 17:21). Both trains from Leeds to Doncaster on 20th Feb. They came back and rejected it on the basis that the train I selected was a CrossCountry train, which it was, and told me to get in contact with CC.

I have since replied explaining that it was a mistake on my behalf, that it was in fact the 17:21 train I got on and advised them to check the ticket I had uploaded which clearly states “Northern Only” on it, so I wouldn’t have been able to get on the CrossCountry train anyway. Regardless, this was the day where we bad storms and flooding in the UK, and every train from Leeds to Doncaster around that time had been cancelled, so i had to wait 2 hours and then get on the LNER service back. The last reply I had from them was over a week ago, and I also put a claim in for a train that was cancelled in the morning over a week ago and that has had no response, what should I do?

Wait for their response. It is important to complete forms carefully, and I think they would be within their rights to insist on going by the information you initially provided

 

[ashkeba]

Wait for their response. It is important to complete forms carefully, and I think they would be within their rights to insist on going by the information you initially provided

I disagree and think that unreasonable because typing errors on input should be expected and not punished. If they want to rely on the data entered, they should ask for it to be entered twice.

 

[Jammeeget]

Wait for their response. It is important to complete forms carefully, and I think they would be within their rights to insist on going by the information you initially provided

It was quite confusing. I completed the form once I had gotten home a few hours later, and when you select a train on it, it showed some of the times highlighted in grey and some in white, the 17:11 was in grey and I assumed grey meant cancelled so I chose that one.

Now, I believe grey actually means non Northern trains, but it doesn’t tell you this anywhere. Why would they allow you to select non Northern trains on the Northern delay repay website?

 

[johntea]

A simple ‘no’ I suspect but a situation I had this morning and worth asking for nothing

Set off for the 09:03, showed up as ‘Delayed’ on the way there with no updates so diverted for a coffee instead!

09:03 departed 10:57
10:04 departed 10:45
10:33 departed 10:34 (I used this service)

But I only purchased my ticket from the TVM at 10:23 (and off peak at that) once I was confident the 10:33 was a winner so guessing there is absolutely no delay repay claim to be had here?

I use the TVM rather than eTickets as I purchase PlusBus on top, also an interesting point I was thinking of was should I have wanted to purchase my ticket with cash rather than card the first opportunity would have actually been on board the 10:33 service being an unstaffed station!

Update on this...the claim was accepted and free tickets on the way in the post

Even if it did take them 21 days to process the claim! (although in fairness I logged a different delay repay claim with them on Friday night which has been processed at the same time as this one!)

 

[sheff1]

Travelling from Sheffield to Sunderland.

Arrived on time at Newcastle to find the connection cancelled. Bus replacement advertised.

Eventually arrived in Sunderland over 30 mins late.

Delay Repay cliam rejected by Northern becuase "you haven’t used your ticket to travel or did not complete your full journey by train. Our delay repay process only applies if you complete your full journey by train and are delayed by 15 minutes or more.". Of course I didn't complete my full journey by train - they cancelled it*

Incompetence or deliberate attempt not pay out on a valid claim hoping I will not pursue? If the latter, they have failed.

* For what its worth the next scheduled train from Newcastle to Sunderland an hour later was also cancelled - perhaps I should have waited and claimed for a 2 hour delay .

 

[3rd rail land]

Incompetence or deliberate attempt not pay out on a valid claim hoping I will not pursue? If the latter, they have failed.

Definitely the latter. I won't believe anyone could possibly be that incompetent.

 

[ABB125]

Travelling from Sheffield to Sunderland.

Arrived on time at Newcastle to find the connection cancelled. Bus replacement advertised.

Eventually arrived in Sunderland over 30 mins late.

Delay Repay cliam rejected by Northern becuase "you haven’t used your ticket to travel or did not complete your full journey by train. Our delay repay process only applies if you complete your full journey by train and are delayed by 15 minutes or more.". Of course I didn't complete my full journey by train - they cancelled it*

Incompetence or deliberate attempt not pay out on a valid claim hoping I will not pursue? If the latter, they have failed.

* For what its worth the next scheduled train from Newcastle to Sunderland an hour later was also cancelled - perhaps I should have waited and claimed for a 2 hour delay .

A very poor understanding of the rail system exhibited by the person from Northern...

Where are these people recruited from?

 

[trover]

Travelling from Sheffield to Sunderland.

Arrived on time at Newcastle to find the connection cancelled. Bus replacement advertised.

Eventually arrived in Sunderland over 30 mins late.

Delay Repay cliam rejected by Northern becuase "you haven’t used your ticket to travel or did not complete your full journey by train. Our delay repay process only applies if you complete your full journey by train and are delayed by 15 minutes or more.". Of course I didn't complete my full journey by train - they cancelled it*

Incompetence or deliberate attempt not pay out on a valid claim hoping I will not pursue? If the latter, they have failed.

* For what its worth the next scheduled train from Newcastle to Sunderland an hour later was also cancelled - perhaps I should have waited and claimed for a 2 hour delay .

Had been in a similar situation very recently (but a delay of more than an hour in midnight when they cancelled the last train) and received the same nonsense canned response. Complained with the threat of escalating to the ombudsman, they finally make it right. But I doubt how many of those who receive this response would persist.

 

[PG]

A very poor understanding of the rail system exhibited by the person from Northern...

Where are these people recruited from?

Job adverts probably say no experience (of the rail system) necessary

How long have DfT OLR been running it for now? Do employees count as civil servants?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Do employees count as civil servants?

Highly unlikely: soldiers and nurses in the NHS aren’t civil servants, so it’s entirely possible to work for the state and not be a civil servant.

And what difference do you think it would make if Northern staff were classed as civil servants?

 

[Haywain]

How long have DfT OLR been running it for now? Do employees count as civil servants?

Most definitely not.

 

[PG]

And what difference do you think it would make if Northern staff were classed as civil servants?

A somewhat tongue in cheek comment referencing @ABB125 's remark about a poor understanding of the rail system given that the IEP gave us the Class 80x, which was specified by DfT civil servants.

 

[Trumpers halt]

I had one rejected by Thameslink yesterday, and I'm sure they're wrong to do so. The details are:

16th Mar 2022 at 5.06pm​

Gatwick Airport London Bridge
rejected
You chose to be reimbursed by bank transfer on 23rd March 2022
Rejection reason: The ticket provided is not valid for the journey you've claimed for.

RTT showed a 21 min delay and I had a super off peak day travelcard. Now I know that those have timing restrictions but having checked on Thameslink and NR websites and journey planners those restrictions appear to be basically 'after 0945 into/out of London is OK'.

The only snag I considered was that this ticket was sold as being to and from Hassocks, but as that is further than the journey I actually booked that's not an issue- and I specifically asked ticket staff and had this confirmed. Also this is not valid for Gatwick Express, but this train definitely wasn't a great red thing!

Any ideas what do do next would be gratefully received.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I had one rejected by Thameslink yesterday, and I'm sure they're wrong to do so. The details are:

16th Mar 2022 at 5.06pm​

Gatwick Airport London Bridge
rejected
You chose to be reimbursed by bank transfer on 23rd March 2022
Rejection reason: The ticket provided is not valid for the journey you've claimed for.

RTT showed a 21 min delay and I had a super off peak day travelcard. Now I know that those have timing restrictions but having checked on Thameslink and NR websites and journey planners those restrictions appear to be basically 'after 0945 into/out of London is OK'.

The only snag I considered was that this ticket was sold as being to and from Hassocks, but as that is further than the journey I actually booked that's not an issue- and I specifically asked ticket staff and had this confirmed. Also this is not valid for Gatwick Express, but this train definitely wasn't a great red thing!

Any ideas what do do next would be gratefully received.

The version of the restrictions shown on BRfares.com (https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=HSK&dest=LBG&grpd=0035&rte=500&tkt=AM3) eventually tells us (you have to scroll a long way down the page)

Return Journey​
Summary:​	VALID AS ADVERTISED​
Time Restrictions​

(...)

Not valid to depart​

LONDON BRIDGE​

1615–1915​

on any TOC​

Assuming this website to be authoritative (and I think that is the general view here) it looks as if there was a restriction and so the railway arein the right

 

[AlterEgo]

I had one rejected by Thameslink yesterday, and I'm sure they're wrong to do so. The details are:

16th Mar 2022 at 5.06pm​

Gatwick Airport London Bridge
rejected
You chose to be reimbursed by bank transfer on 23rd March 2022
Rejection reason: The ticket provided is not valid for the journey you've claimed for.

RTT showed a 21 min delay and I had a super off peak day travelcard. Now I know that those have timing restrictions but having checked on Thameslink and NR websites and journey planners those restrictions appear to be basically 'after 0945 into/out of London is OK'.

The only snag I considered was that this ticket was sold as being to and from Hassocks, but as that is further than the journey I actually booked that's not an issue- and I specifically asked ticket staff and had this confirmed. Also this is not valid for Gatwick Express, but this train definitely wasn't a great red thing!

Any ideas what do do next would be gratefully received.

A Super Off Peak Day Travelcard from Hassocks (Not Gatwick Express) is this fare: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=HSK&dest=0035&rte=500&tkt=AM3

It is not valid to leave London Bridge between 1615-1915.

The restriction applies to the ticket, not the journey. Be very careful in future - your ticket wasn't valid!

 

[trover]

I had one rejected by Thameslink yesterday, and I'm sure they're wrong to do so. The details are:

16th Mar 2022 at 5.06pm​

Gatwick Airport London Bridge
rejected
You chose to be reimbursed by bank transfer on 23rd March 2022
Rejection reason: The ticket provided is not valid for the journey you've claimed for.

RTT showed a 21 min delay and I had a super off peak day travelcard. Now I know that those have timing restrictions but having checked on Thameslink and NR websites and journey planners those restrictions appear to be basically 'after 0945 into/out of London is OK'.

The only snag I considered was that this ticket was sold as being to and from Hassocks, but as that is further than the journey I actually booked that's not an issue- and I specifically asked ticket staff and had this confirmed. Also this is not valid for Gatwick Express, but this train definitely wasn't a great red thing!

Any ideas what do do next would be gratefully received.

If you can prove to the TOC that the ticket staff has said that, I think your claim should be honoured.

 

[Trumpers halt]

A Super Off Peak Day Travelcard from Hassocks (Not Gatwick Express) is this fare: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=HSK&dest=0035&rte=500&tkt=AM3

It is not valid to leave London Bridge between 1615-1915.

The restriction applies to the ticket, not the journey. Be very careful in future - your ticket wasn't valid!

I wasn't leaving London Bridge, I was traveling to it. To be clear, I was leaving Gatwick at 1706 going to LBG. I was planning to leave LBG some time after 2100.

 

[AlterEgo]

I wasn't leaving London Bridge, I was traveling to it. To be clear, I was leaving Gatwick at 1706 going to LBG. I was planning to leave LBG some time after 2100.

Ah, well perhaps the claim staff have made the same assumption I and @Fawkes Cat made, that at that time of day you were returning - it is valid. Be sure to appeal and state this, and that you started your journey short at Gatwick. (This is also permitted - there is no break of journey restriciton)

 

[Trumpers halt]

Ah, well perhaps the claim staff have made the same assumption I and @Fawkes Cat made, that at that time of day you were returning - it is valid. Be sure to appeal and state this, and that you started your journey short at Gatwick. (This is also permitted - there is no break of journey restriciton)

Thanks, yes I was indeed going into London when most people were coming out- that's why its usually a relatively comfortable trip!

Looking at that BR Fares page (which is new to me and I will save for reference thanks) I was getting tied into mental knots thinking 'Well, it does depart London bridge between 1615 and 1915- but only because its continuing further North- without me on it as I will already have got off!'.

They said in the rejection email that the quickest way to update them is to resubmit the claim 'If you think you've given us the wrong information'. In this circumstance, where they appear to have called it wrong, is that the best way to challenge it?

Thanks for all the help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Mar 2022 ==

I've just tried to 'resubmit' this via Thameslink's delay repay but there seems to be no way to appeal it or add more information. Am I looking in the wrong place?

 

[island]

Looking at that BR Fares page (which is new to me and I will save for reference thanks) I was getting tied into mental knots thinking 'Well, it does depart London bridge between 1615 and 1915- but only because its continuing further North- without me on it as I will already have got off!'.

You're right, for the wrong reason.

The official text of the restriction, found at https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/PB, states
"Not valid on trains timed to depart the following London Termini after 16:14 and before 19:16:... London Bridge"
and
"Not valid on trains timed to pass through London St Pancras International after 16:29 or before 19:02, regardless of where you join or leave the service".

However, it says this under "return travel". Your journey would follow the "outbound travel" column which has no restrictions after 10:45.

You should appeal the rejection via customer services.

 

[Trumpers halt]

You're right, for the wrong reason.

The official text of the restriction, found at https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/PB, states
"Not valid on trains timed to depart the following London Termini after 16:14 and before 19:16:... London Bridge"
and
"Not valid on trains timed to pass through London St Pancras International after 16:29 or before 19:02, regardless of where you join or leave the service".

However, it says this under "return travel". Your journey would follow the "outbound travel" column which has no restrictions after 10:45.

You should appeal the rejection via customer services.

Yep, I will do just that and report back (in about 94 weeks no doubt...).

Very good to get some other eyes on my thinking here- most helpful, thanks all.

 

[357]

Currently in dispute with Avanti.

Claimed for 2 tickets London to Liverpool.

Offered refund for 50% of one ticket.

Appealed, saying that I included two tickets on one claim as their website told me to.

Appeal rejected.

Next step according to them is to contact their complained department, so an email was sent today that they say should get a reply in around 4 weeks.

 

[Trumpers halt]

Yep, I will do just that and report back (in about 94 weeks no doubt...).

Very good to get some other eyes on my thinking here- most helpful, thanks all.

Ok so they emailed yesterday and I have won this claim!

Earlier yesterday, CS emailed in response to me challenging the initial rejection on the ground of invalid ticket to say that it had been rejected because I submitted an itinerary and not the ticket. I replied stating that was exactly what I had been advised to do by Thameslink CS (entering 00000 as the tkt no) as I had lost the original but still had the itinerary with fast ticket collection code shown. I was able to give the reference no of that message and lo and behold, a few hours later I get a delay repay email saying I would have the compo in a few days via BACS.

Dont give up!

 

[sheff1]

Travelling from Sheffield to Sunderland.

Arrived on time at Newcastle to find the connection cancelled. Bus replacement advertised.

Eventually arrived in Sunderland over 30 mins late.

Delay Repay cliam rejected by Northern becuase "you haven’t used your ticket to travel or did not complete your full journey by train. Our delay repay process only applies if you complete your full journey by train and are delayed by 15 minutes or more.". Of course I didn't complete my full journey by train - they cancelled it*

Incompetence or deliberate attempt not pay out on a valid claim hoping I will not pursue? If the latter, they have failed.

This was finally paid after I contacted Customer Services who raised an appeal on my behalf.

 

[BJames]

I've never actually claimed Delay Repay for Split Ticket journeys before - could someone tell me whether this is correct?

I travelled on 20:30 King's Cross - Grantham (Hull Trains, arriving 21:30), the 21:44 (EMR) departure for Nottingham was delayed by 35 minutes and we arrived Nottingham 32 minutes late at 22:54 rather than 22:22.

The HT service was completely on time and EMR was late, so I submitted a claim with both tickets to EMR and they have just refunded me half the cost of the ticket GRA-NOT (which was £6.85 as I have a railcard, so I've received £3.43). The total cost of the journey was £23.00, and I booked on Trainline so it split it for me (i.e. I have a through itinerary from London-Nottingham). Am I not entitled to half of this fare back? Given I just booked London-NOT and it was Trainline that split it, and EMR that delayed me? Should I appeal or am I wasting my time?

 

[3rd rail land]

I've never actually claimed Delay Repay for Split Ticket journeys before - could someone tell me whether this is correct?

I travelled on 20:30 King's Cross - Grantham (Hull Trains, arriving 21:30), the 21:44 (EMR) departure for Nottingham was delayed by 35 minutes and we arrived Nottingham 32 minutes late at 22:54 rather than 22:22.

The HT service was completely on time and EMR was late, so I submitted a claim with both tickets to EMR and they have just refunded me half the cost of the ticket GRA-NOT (which was £6.85 as I have a railcard, so I've received £3.43). The total cost of the journey was £23.00, and I booked on Trainline so it split it for me (i.e. I have a through itinerary from London-Nottingham). Am I not entitled to half of this fare back? Given I just booked London-NOT and it was Trainline that split it, and EMR that delayed me? Should I appeal or am I wasting my time?

You are entitled to delay repay for your entire journey not jut the GRA-NOT portion. Definitely appeal.

 

[Watershed]

I've never actually claimed Delay Repay for Split Ticket journeys before - could someone tell me whether this is correct?

I travelled on 20:30 King's Cross - Grantham (Hull Trains, arriving 21:30), the 21:44 (EMR) departure for Nottingham was delayed by 35 minutes and we arrived Nottingham 32 minutes late at 22:54 rather than 22:22.

The HT service was completely on time and EMR was late, so I submitted a claim with both tickets to EMR and they have just refunded me half the cost of the ticket GRA-NOT (which was £6.85 as I have a railcard, so I've received £3.43). The total cost of the journey was £23.00, and I booked on Trainline so it split it for me (i.e. I have a through itinerary from London-Nottingham). Am I not entitled to half of this fare back? Given I just booked London-NOT and it was Trainline that split it, and EMR that delayed me? Should I appeal or am I wasting my time?

No, you're entitled to Delay Repay based on the entire cost of your journey, provided you allow the minimum connection time at any places you change trains (which an accredited retailer would automatically allow anyway). I presume you included a picture/attachment of both tickets and gave the ticket cost as £23? Either way, appeal.

 

[BJames]

You are entitled to delay repay for your entire journey not jut the GRA-NOT portion. Definitely appeal.

Thanks, this is what I thought.

No, you're entitled to Delay Repay based on the entire cost of your journey, provided you allow the minimum connection time at any places you change trains (which an accredited retailer would automatically allow anyway). I presume you included a picture/attachment of both tickets and gave the ticket cost as £23? Either way, appeal.

Thanks - it was 14 min connection at Grantham anyway but as you say it was an accredited retailer and I have attached both tickets. Will appeal.

 

[Aaron1]

My brother was travelling from Leeds to Grimsby last week using a ticket Leeds to grimsby valid via Doncaster, he got delayed arriving into Grimsby, so claimed off TPE as should do who rejected it, he appealed, they rejected again instantly so he asked on twitter why and the reply was as follows "Your ticket states from Leeds to Grimsby, your ticket was not valid on our service as you needed to catch the direct Leeds to Grimsby service"

Obviously there is no Leeds to Grimsby direct service so he couldn't catch a service that didn't exist! And his ticket was valid via Doncaster and he went via doncaster so he's lodged a formal complaint with them now.

 

[WesternLancer]

My brother was travelling from Leeds to Grimsby last week using a ticket Leeds to grimsby valid via Doncaster, he got delayed arriving into Grimsby, so claimed off TPE as should do who rejected it, he appealed, they rejected again instantly so he asked on twitter why and the reply was as follows "Your ticket states from Leeds to Grimsby, your ticket was not valid on our service as you needed to catch the direct Leeds to Grimsby service"

Obviously there is no Leeds to Grimsby direct service so he couldn't catch a service that didn't exist! And his ticket was valid via Doncaster and he went via doncaster so he's lodged a formal complaint with them now.

One wonders if they believe the passenger should go Leeds - Hull on TPE, then take the bus over the Humber Bridge and the Barton branch line train to Grimsby before they would entertain a claim to TPE....