PermitToTravel
Established Member
The Underground have also got 'suicide pits' at a lot of stations. I wouldn't know, but would imagine that these tend to simplify cleanup a bit
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delay repay and terror alerts
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The Underground have also got 'suicide pits' at a lot of stations. I wouldn't know, but would imagine that these tend to simplify cleanup a bit
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carriageline
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I generally hear of more people being trapped under a train on the underground than the mainline too!
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Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I don't think the Underground does get going any quicker than heavy rail, it still takes a good few hours to get things going again through the affected area. What the Underground does have is self-contained routes with dedicated stock, so they can run a service on the parts of the line not affected by the fatality.
A fatality at Baker Street, for instance, wouldn't stop the Jubilee line running from Green Park or Waterloo. But on heavy rail, with interworking stock, it isn't so simple. Last week a fatality in the morning near Birmingham meant my peak time train out of Euston was short-formed. You don't get that sort of effect on the tube.
A fatality at Baker Street, for instance, wouldn't stop the Jubilee line running from Green Park or Waterloo. But on heavy rail, with interworking stock, it isn't so simple. Last week a fatality in the morning near Birmingham meant my peak time train out of Euston was short-formed. You don't get that sort of effect on the tube.
Tom B
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Another angle to look at it is that non-railway incidents (suicides, security alerts, bad weather etc) are risks the railways take (and remembering the TOC are a business with not much risk or ingenuity required).
It could, if it so desired, invest in technology to lessen the impacts of bad weather - snow etc. It could employ additional staff and trains to get things back to normal quicker after such an event. It could fit platform edge doors to every platform in the area. Or it could accept that occasionally these things will happen and they'll have to pay out to passengers for the disruption.
If employing one more spare driver to be on duty every evening peak to cover in the event of disruption would cost, say, £80,000 including on costs, but he'll mostly be drinking tea and only stop a train being cancelled for lack of crew twice, which would otherwise have cost £20,000 in compensation... you can see which option the TOC will take!
In moral terms it is not moral that profit-making TOCs trouser public money from NR for delays between 5-29 minutes - swings and roundabouts really.
It could, if it so desired, invest in technology to lessen the impacts of bad weather - snow etc. It could employ additional staff and trains to get things back to normal quicker after such an event. It could fit platform edge doors to every platform in the area. Or it could accept that occasionally these things will happen and they'll have to pay out to passengers for the disruption.
If employing one more spare driver to be on duty every evening peak to cover in the event of disruption would cost, say, £80,000 including on costs, but he'll mostly be drinking tea and only stop a train being cancelled for lack of crew twice, which would otherwise have cost £20,000 in compensation... you can see which option the TOC will take!
In moral terms it is not moral that profit-making TOCs trouser public money from NR for delays between 5-29 minutes - swings and roundabouts really.
I always find the argument 'you were delayed by an hour? so what, someone lost their life' a bit annoying. Someone committing suicide stopping all trains at, for example Waterloo and delaying everyone at the evening peak by an average of an hour has lost the commuters in the region of 14 years of their life, collectively.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...50-million-9761623.html?origin=internalSearch
interesting article from yesterday
Train firms get £167m for delays ... but give commuters just £50m in compensation
interesting article from yesterday
Train firms get £167m for delays ... but give commuters just £50m in compensation
I'd imagine this is in part due to some people being unaware of their rights, and a lot of small journeys that people can't be bothered getting refunded, adding up. All that money left over shouldn't be kept by the TOCs though.
but southeasterm trains etc get money if the train is 5 mins late but they dont let customers claim this money unless its 30mins late ??????
I agree there's inconsistency but smaller delays like that can have knock-on effects that lead to staff working longer than their prescribed hours. A driver on a Canterbury - London service running 20 minutes late can't jump out and bail his shift at Bromley South, 9/10 times he'd carry on into London and if the delay isn't Southeastern's fault they'd need recompense from Network Rail for them paying the driver overtime wouldn't they?
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True, but to be honest, I don't have a problem with that.
I'd be against passengers getting refunds for trivial delays, the claim culture we live in is bad enough already
Might be worth bearing in mind that the 3 incidents that prompted this thread were a gentleman pulling the passcom on approach to London Bridge claiming to have an explosive device on the Thursday evening peak, a driver who had an incident just outside Cannon Street on the Friday evening peak and a rather silly passenger who decided he'd try train surfing at London Bridge on the couplers between 2 x 376 also during that Friday evening peak.
Does the extra care and time off afforded to drivers who experience unfortunate incidents come out of the pocket of the TOC, or Network Rail?
TOC as far as I know, NR would only compensate for the delays caused by the initial incident.
bb21
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Top post if I may say so.
If claims are allowed for trivial delays I dread to think how expensive the whole thing will become to administer. May as well make the whole thing free.
But everyones lives are sooooooo impotent now (oops I mean important now
) those 5 minute delays matter! 
Apparently!
Well all I will say is that if a 5-10 minute delay means a commuter is late for work, that is definitely not the result of poor planning and time management, and is most certainly grounds to lambast the TOC on Twitter!But everyones lives are sooooooo impotent now (oops I mean important now
Apparently!
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I'd be against TOCs getting refunds for trivial delays, the blame culture we have on the railways is bad enough already.
If TOCs are allowed to claim refunds for trivial delays then the whole system will be ridiculously expensive to administer, with teams of lawyers all arguing about who caused what. We may as well let the TOCs get track access for free.
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