Delay costs from bridge strikes

[Martinwithanx]

How are these apportioned? Are the insurers of the road vehicle which is involved charged, if the driver is found negligent? Or is it sorted in another manner?

 

[185]

From memory, for structural repairs, NR generally recovers average 67% of the damage cost from vehicle insurers. (ie 33% by taxpayer).
Rarely have I noticed anything that indicates the vehicle insurers contribute anything towards operator delay rebates / customer compensation. (100% taxpayer).

This was some years ago, though.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think perhaps this deserves a sticky thread, as it comes up so often.

NR goes after the vehicle owner’s insurers for all costs including the costs of delay.

 

[ajs]

These 2 cases clarified what Network Rail could claim for and this included the delay (Section 8 ) payments they had to make to TOCs.

• Network Rail v Conarken (2010) and Court of Appeal (2011): These cases established that Network Rail could claim back costs for bridge strikes, including Schedule 8 payments, from hauliers.
  
  
• Network Rail v Handy & Others (2015): This case further solidified Network Rail's ability to recover costs, including Schedule 8 payments, from hauliers.

 

[Horizon22]

There was a lengthy thread regarding bridge strikes, apportionment and costs a few months ago:

Same bridge struck three times in under a week

Article on BBC website The line between Birmingham and Lichfield Trent Valley was blocked on Tuesday after a lorry crashed into the bridge on Summer Road, Erdington, shortly after 10:00 GMT. The scene was cleared at about 11:30 GMT but West Midlands Railway said the same bridge was hit by...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Martinwithanx]

Thanks for the info / replies

 

[Phil from Mon]

I was caught up in the aftermath of a bridge strike at Conwy yesterday, sitting in the platform at Llandudno Junction for well over an hour before being de-trained and sent to wait for a bus. Such events obviously cause huge and expensive disruption - the initial investigation and clearing if necessary, repairs to the bridge, hiring of replacement buses, and of course the delay repay not just for the services immediately affected but also for trains stopped short further down the line to get things back on track.
Would the driver’s or transport company’s insurance cover all of this, and if not would NR or the TOC have to take legal action? What about individual passemgers - would they be able to claim for consequential loss from the driver or freight company? I imagine we could in some cases be looking at bankrupcy or firms going out of business, does this ever happen?
Incidentally, the Avanti staff on the train were superb in keeping us informed, but I don’t know if the buses ever turned up (it was school run time) - we went to the pub and arranged a lift!

 

[zwk500]

Passengers would claim delay repay from the operator.
The TOCs/FOCs would be paid delay compensation by Network Rail (schedule 8, I think).
Network Rail would then seek to recover costs from the insurers (or firm/driver directly). I have no idea what proportion they would usually get.

I'm not aware of passengers having claimed directly from the road vehicles insurers as they usually wouldnt have the details to do so.

 

[MartinC]

I'm not aware of passengers having claimed directly from the road vehicles insurers as they usually wouldnt have the details to do so.

I think the issue here would be "duty of care". Might make an interesting case for somebody with a deep pocket. In view if the implications, the insurance industry would take this all the way to the Supreme Court if it was not thrown out at a lower level. There might, also, be the question of remoteness of damage.

 

[Rab Smith]

I think the issue here would be "duty of care". Might make an interesting case for somebody with a deep pocket. In view if the implications, the insurance industry would take this all the way to the Supreme Court if it was not thrown out at a lower level. There might, also, be the question of remoteness of damage.

Do such damages fall into the 'public liability' element of the insurance product? I once had a very small business insurance product but still had £10 million worth of public liability!

 

[Belperpete]

I'm not aware of passengers having claimed directly from the road vehicles insurers as they usually wouldnt have the details to do so.

The situation would be akin to that of car drivers being delayed by a road accident. In this case, they get no compensation from the highway authority for their delay, but I am not aware of anyone taking the person responsible for the accident to court for the delays that they have caused.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Thanks for the responses guys.

 

[Jakko542]

It's worth bearing in mind that the DVSA will usually investigate a bridge strike, with a report going to the Traffic Commissioner for the area in which the road vehicle operator is based.

This can and does lead to Public Inquiries to consider whether the firm should be allowed to continue to operate, and furthermore the fitness of Transport Managers and / or Directors of the transport company involved to continue in their posts. A negligent driver will also likely face a Driver Conduct Hearing which can result in loss of HGV licence.

Every aspect of road transport is highly regulated, and for good reason. As for the clowns who can't read the road or use native Google Maps to navigate, and the companies who fail to have a Bridge Strike Policy or deliver ongoing training to drivers, speaking as someone who has worked just about every job you can do in transport over 25 years, they really need to be kicked out of the industry and not allowed back.

 

[AndrewE]

Every aspect of road transport is highly regulated, and for good reason. As for the clowns who can't read the road or use native Google Maps to navigate, and the companies who fail to have a Bridge Strike Policy or deliver ongoing training to drivers, speaking as someone who has worked just about every job you can do in transport over 25 years, they really need to be kicked out of the industry and not allowed back.

But what a shame that they are not!
On the original topic ("Who pays?") I would answer "all of us!"
Insurance premiums are effectively pooled, as no firm's individual payments could ever cover the costs of a serious bridge strike. So all of us who pay any sort of insurance premium to a company which does road insurance are cross-subsidising HGV and bus policies.

 

[edwin_m]

Insurance premiums are effectively pooled, as no firm's individual payments could ever cover the costs of a serious bridge strike. So all of us who pay any sort of insurance premium to a company which does road insurance are cross-subsidising HGV and bus policies.

Insurers will aim to make money out of each market sector. Consider an insurer that offered lower rates to HGV operators by cross-subsidising from car policies (for example). A competitor could then beat them on price by only offering car policies. So in a competitive market like insurance, prices will reflect costs plus profit without cross-subsidy.

Also an insurer is likely to increase premiums if an operator has a noticeably worse claims record than the industry average, just as a couple of claims will bump up your car or house insurance.

The fact that very large claims are re-insured doesn't affect that - the insurance companies themselves will be paying into the re-insurance fund, and that payment will reflect their own record of claims from it.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Just for context on the incident in Conwy, there was a report in the local press yesterday, although it did not mention the rail disruption. The roadway across the bridge is a very narrow, and it looked as though there was substantial damage to one parapet. It has now been closed by the County Council, and local residents were reporting that the traffic over it had increased substantially in the last few years. The only link I can find is to the appalling North Wales Online website, apologies for all the ads. northWales online bridge strike

 

[Krokodil]

Just for context on the incident in Conwy, there was a report in the local press yesterday, although it did not mention the rail disruption. The roadway across the bridge is a very narrow, and it looked as though there was substantial damage to one parapet. It has now been closed by the County Council, and local residents were reporting that the traffic over it had increased substantially in the last few years. The only link I can find is to the appalling North Wales Online website, apologies for all the ads. northWales online bridge strike

I must have passed that bridge many times when bussing or cycling on the A547 without ever noticing its existence. It looks completely unsuitable for motor vehicles and given that there's another access at the other end of the housing estate it should probably remain closed to all except bikes/horses/pedestrians