Decision-making

[AlphaHotel]

hi all! I'm a bit curious and in a bit of a predicament. Im 17 and currently about to start my 2nd year of college, looking to finish when I'm about 19, my dad as advised me to go into the railway, e.g as a conductor or a driver (eventually) while this sounds appealing due to the pay packet and apprenticeships available for new-comers however I love aviation and am aiming to go into a pilot career, however the expensive cost of getting into a airliner is extortionate and eye watering however the pay is much higher than a train driver from day 1 of being on line , im just curious have you or do you know anyone who's taken the trip from the railway to aviation or indeed the latter? Should I go into the railway like my dad says or should i use it as a stepping stone to fund my pilot training


TL;DR should i go through being a condu to fund my passion of flight training to should I look for a career on trains. Any information or suggestions would be great thats chaps/Ladies

 

[Emilali]

Why dont you consider the RAF if Aviation is your passion? Wouldn't cost you a penny and you could have an extremely rewarding career as a pilot with them.

 

[AlphaHotel]

Great suggestion Emilali! I appreciate it but you're required to do minimum 12 years commitment, and honestly in 12 years I could be well up my way on the seniority list of an airline and ofcourse money isn't the major factor here, also location ideally id like to be in a home base here in Birmingham which the RAF doesn't offer, as well as the general life style of a civvi pilot compared to a RAF pilot is different than I'd like!

 

[choochoochoo]

Simple answer. Railway all the way.

Pilots are being made redundant left, right and centre. So even if you complete your training you'll be up against guys and girls with thousands of hours in their log book.

Also pilot Ts & Cs are being torn to shreds by airline management right now. So it won't be anywhere as well paid as you think it is going to be.

Get your PPL and build up your hours/ratings, and should a dream job turn up, then leave the railway.

 

[Ducatist4]

I think you might be surprised if you do some research. Airline pilots don’t earn anywhere near as much as you think, certainly not until they’ve got a good few years under their belts. A qualified train driver would earn more than most commercial pilots these days.

 

[AlphaHotel]

@choochoochoo, correct the industry is in a state and will be for the next 5 years minimum until all the other High hour pilots are picked up by airlines, the airlines that survive that is! Many captains bejng made redundant thats my biggest fear; I'm not a fan of wanting to spend 60k+ on training to be at the job centre should my employer fail. My attitude has always been to work and fund my training in modules (modular route) and jump in the industry when the times right, and being a conductor or driver would free up those funds to do so Without having to worry about living! Many easyjet cadets have been cancelled haunting their training and some losing plenty of pounds and what have noticed during corona virus is how stable, from an outsider veiw, the rail industry has been throughout.

@Rockhopper thanks for the response, off the line a driver earns much more than a pilot thats for sure however, with the use of pay points that you can go through each year and increase your take home, as I said there's more than money that concerns me, such as environment, lifestyle as well as day to day, the veiws from the flight deck at 6am down to the canaries or east are breath taking, and seeing the passengers disembark after a 4 hour flight is some what rewarding dont forget the long haul gigs, a day in the Caribbean, though some long haul flights are only a 24hr stay some do extend.

* additional information*
Salaries

Jet2 skipper : 114k pre tax
Jet2 first officer 62k pre tax

Virgin atlantic skipper: 162k pre tax
Virgin atlantic first officer: 104k pre tax

I'm not versed on train driver salaries however I'm sure its around 50k pre tax

 

[TrainTracks]

Hi Alphahotel,

I don’t know a huge amount about working in the Rail industry. My limited knowledge leads me to believe a train driver is a well paid, stable career. It seems to be heavily unionised and the Union is effective. People (subject to the usuals gripes of any industry) seem to love their job.
I know a lot about the aviation industry. Realistically you will almost definitely start on a lower wage than a train driver as a pilot, potentially with a large debt, but if you end up in a reasonable sized airline and progress to captain or even senior first officer the earning potential is quite a bit more than driving trains. You can then go into training etc or management which will reward you even better, or if it’s all about the money head out to Far East (predominantly China) where you can earn $350/400k tax free. Do that for a few years and you’re sorted! But, there is a reason you’re paid a lot to work out there!!
However, it is a fickle, cyclical industry and you are always looking over your shoulder wondering if your job is safe. Every ten years or so (9/11, 08 financial crash, COVID) something happens that is a catastrophe for the airlines, there is a large cull of staff and T&Cs and pilots have to start building up their work conditions again. You will have to be ready and willing to go where the work is. For example, at the moment the internal Chinese market is at 98% pre COVID flying capacity, so that’s where the jobs are!
Whilst flying is unionised, the Union is no where near as effective as the rail union seems to be (again just what I’ve perceived).
Important to note it’ll take you a good two years to train to fly. You say you’re 17 so realistically it’ll be 3 years before yould be looking at flying jobs. In 3 years the aviation industry will be different again. It’s those that started training a couple of years ago that will feel the biggest hit from this downturn.
Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.
Intrigued to hear others thoughts/opinions!

Cheers
TT

 

[lae150]

Is it going to be the right career for you if you are only interested in the pay packet? You don't sound like driving a train is a job you actually want to do, maybe i'm wrong?
As someone from a travel background, aviation is 100% not a good move at the moment. However, you should chase your dreams for sure. Just be prepared to find it very difficult to find a job at the end of your training.

 

[Thebullet]

Hi @AlphaHotel you say you love aviation have you managed to get up and take some flight training?

As other replies have echoed aviation comes in cycles so if you do go down that route be prepared and always have some other skills you can use in times of hardship. I know some guys who have been made redundant from airlines recently with relatively low hours and are sick with worry especially if they've gone down the integrated route with debts still to pay.

You could apply for positions on the railway to fund a LAPL/PPL and see how that goes, you never know a career on the railway might be for you while flying recreationally satisfies your desires.

If the pay packet is your sole reason for becoming a pilot think about investment banking instead.
While it might take a few years to get into the left hand seat of a jet the salaries are in line with the responsibility you hold.

Let's say you go down the modular route that could take anywhere between 2-5 years depending on your financial situation. You are then lucky enough to finish training on a peak of recruitment you could work for someone like FR who take low hour modular cadets. Another 3-5 years as a FO before getting your 4th strip.

Yes the salary will be good but it's not like the catch me if you can era anymore, if you work for low cost it will be stressful, long hours getting shipped off to an Eastern European country to learn your trade with the threat of redundancy every 8 years, it's not stable..

Don't do a job for money especially at your age, it's about finding something that will give you some good skills for the future whilst having some fun along the way..

If you still have a buring desire to fly after you've got some hours under your belt then go for it.

Word of advice get a class 1 medical before you even think about spending a penny.

 

[2L70]

Why dont you consider the RAF if Aviation is your passion? Wouldn't cost you a penny and you could have an extremely rewarding career as a pilot with them.

And you could have a go at being a Train Driver after you finish, plenty have done...

 

[4F89]

Is it going to be the right career for you if you are only interested in the pay packet? You don't sound like driving a train is a job you actually want to do, maybe i'm wrong?
As someone from a travel background, aviation is 100% not a good move at the moment. However, you should chase your dreams for sure. Just be prepared to find it very difficult to find a job at the end of your training.

Train driving was never something I "wanted to do".... I got lucky that I don't hate it.

 

[sw1ller]

Great suggestion Emilali! I appreciate it but you're required to do minimum 12 years commitment, and honestly in 12 years I could be well up my way on the seniority list of an airline and ofcourse money isn't the major factor here, also location ideally id like to be in a home base here in Birmingham which the RAF doesn't offer, as well as the general life style of a civvi pilot compared to a RAF pilot is different than I'd like!

PVR! That’s what most of us did. (Can’t remember what it stands for but basically it’s a request to leave the service early)

 

[Lmc1976]

Simple answer. Railway all the way.

Pilots are being made redundant left, right and centre. So even if you complete your training you'll be up against guys and girls with thousands of hours in their log book.

Also pilot Ts & Cs are being torn to shreds by airline management right now. So it won't be anywhere as well paid as you think it is going to be.

Get your PPL and build up your hours/ratings, and should a dream job turn up, then leave the railway.

Im going slightly off topic but how safe do you really think the railway is as far as job security?

everyone sees that airlines are being decimated at the moment but as an industry outsider I don’t see how the railway can escape unscathed with the (I assume) drop in passenger numbers and potentially now many commuters permanently being allowed to work from home.

I ask this as I am currently in a 100% secure government job but am sat in a talent pool for a conductor position so worry if the offer ever comes I would be taking a huge risk accepting as surely the TOCs are businesses and cannot keep losing revenue without staffing levels taking a huge hit at some point down the line (excuse the pun).

 

[TrainTracks]

Im going slightly off topic but how safe do you really think the railway is as far as job security?

everyone sees that airlines are being decimated at the moment but as an industry outsider I don’t see how the railway can escape unscathed with the (I assume) drop in passenger numbers and potentially now many commuters permanently being allowed to work from home.

I ask this as I am currently in a 100% secure government job but am sat in a talent pool for a conductor position so worry if the offer ever comes I would be taking a huge risk accepting as surely the TOCs are businesses and cannot keep losing revenue without staffing levels taking a huge hit at some point down the line (excuse the pun).

I have been wondering this too.

 

[AlphaHotel]

@Thebullet good afternoon! Thanks for the reply, and im definitely not chasing money, otherwise I'd be chasing it forever! Somethings always going to earn me more money, im looking to go down the modular road, earning me license while earning money, I am not navie enough to go intergrated, however being a conductor would give me a stable and good income to fund my PPL, ATPL,CPL ect ect while not going into money problems and it seems like a job that I'd enjoy, for a time until im fully qualified as a pilot, honestly we haven't saw the last of the redundancies within the airlines and i doubt it'll settle until 2025 until we are back at pre covid levels, the pilote Union (BALPA) definitely aren't as strong as ASLEF, however i wish they were! So aviation is a good caeer but the thought of being made redundant ive saw many pilots suffer it recently, is daunting! Though if I jump in at the right time, do some command hours as a captain id be moderately safe!

**additional info**
Im not wanting to become a pilot due to the salary, everyone likes more money, it makes living more comfortable, i like the idea of working with a crew who enjoy doing their job and are bloody good at it, and I get to do my dream while being paid for it!

@lae150 goof afternoon sir, working in rail was nothing I'd really considered until my dad brought it up, after doing my independent research, its seems a bloody good job to do, strong unions decent pay, decent time off so it wouldn't be a bad choice, however i don't want to invest into train driving, and not like it due to wanting to be a pilot if that makes sense ? If it doesn't please disregard that!

 

[choochoochoo]

@choochoochoo, correct the industry is in a state and will be for the next 5 years minimum until all the other High hour pilots are picked up by airlines, the airlines that survive that is! Many captains bejng made redundant thats my biggest fear; I'm not a fan of wanting to spend 60k+ on training to be at the job centre should my employer fail. My attitude has always been to work and fund my training in modules (modular route) and jump in the industry when the times right, and being a conductor or driver would free up those funds to do so Without having to worry about living! Many easyjet cadets have been cancelled haunting their training and some losing plenty of pounds and what have noticed during corona virus is how stable, from an outsider veiw, the rail industry has been throughout.

@Rockhopper thanks for the response, off the line a driver earns much more than a pilot thats for sure however, with the use of pay points that you can go through each year and increase your take home, as I said there's more than money that concerns me, such as environment, lifestyle as well as day to day, the veiws from the flight deck at 6am down to the canaries or east are breath taking, and seeing the passengers disembark after a 4 hour flight is some what rewarding dont forget the long haul gigs, a day in the Caribbean, though some long haul flights are only a 24hr stay some do extend.

* additional information*
Salaries

Jet2 skipper : 114k pre tax
Jet2 first officer 62k pre tax

Virgin atlantic skipper: 162k pre tax
Virgin atlantic first officer: 104k pre tax

I'm not versed on train driver salaries however I'm sure its around 50k pre tax

You might want to check those salary figures on 'ppjn'

The virgin one's are top of scale, so would take forever to reach as an first officer. You need to look at how long it takes to get promotion from first officer to captain.

Jet2 has completely changed from the figures quoted above.

As I said their Ts & Cs are being destroyed as we speak. They won't be coming back to the good 'ol days. Expect schedules where they work you to the legal limits.

Too many pilots on the job market now. Loads have been turfed out of the middle east and are back here.

So if you're looking to be based close to home, you're going to be on a bare minimum salary as there will be plenty of other willing plane jockeys who will be willing to take that amount for the convenience of their family lifestyle/commitments.

Going to China is the only lucrative option, but again competition will be high there too. Also those glittering 6 figure salaries are getting rarer and rarer as the glut of redundant pilots increases. Airline management aren't stupid.

Obviously do it if it's your dream. Just saying the perceived money/lifestyle is not what you think it's going to be. Aviation is far more fun as a leisure pursuit. Just more expensive !!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2020 ==

Im going slightly off topic but how safe do you really think the railway is as far as job security?

everyone sees that airlines are being decimated at the moment but as an industry outsider I don’t see how the railway can escape unscathed with the (I assume) drop in passenger numbers and potentially now many commuters permanently being allowed to work from home.

I ask this as I am currently in a 100% secure government job but am sat in a talent pool for a conductor position so worry if the offer ever comes I would be taking a huge risk accepting as surely the TOCs are businesses and cannot keep losing revenue without staffing levels taking a huge hit at some point down the line (excuse the pun).

Depends on your role I believe.

Whilst commuting has seen a massive hit in numbers. Off Peak has returned to normal loads in most places.

So I'd say it's significantly secure for most who are in it now. New recruits maybe not so. There may not be a need to train as many new drivers/conductors for example, as they may not need to have any increase in the number of services.

Also, unlike airlines, the option of nationalising remains viable. In fact, I believe the unions would love it to return into government hands.

 

[AlphaHotel]

@choochoochoo Those PPJN numbers were pre covid as jet2 gave their pilots an increase in pay, they took a 30% cut to help cash flow for the airline, you could reach those virgin numbers by being and instructor/ examiner, though many people don't, china would be anyones last option the pollution ect the censorship is horrible, even for that amount of money I wouldn't, it just doesn't suit the lifestyle I want, maybe im too optimistic for the aviation industry to return to pre covid levels? I might hop over to PPRUNE and see what people are saying over there, yes leisure is expensive but by time I've got a few hours in my book flying for leisure I couldve funded my commercial licences twice I think ill take your advice, ill take a job on the rail, as a guard/conductor get my PPL and if the industry is looking up, well ill got for my other licences!

 

[Ducatist4]

I know some First Officers actually pay the airline to let them fly and build hours (or they certainly used to).

Virgin Atlantic have today announced 1150 more redundancies.

Its not an industry I'd be getting myself into massive debt to join!

 

[choochoochoo]

@choochoochoo Those PPJN numbers were pre covid as jet2 gave their pilots an increase in pay, they took a 30% cut to help cash flow for the airline, you could reach those virgin numbers by being and instructor/ examiner, though many people don't, china would be anyones last option the pollution ect the censorship is horrible, even for that amount of money I wouldn't, it just doesn't suit the lifestyle I want, maybe im too optimistic for the aviation industry to return to pre covid levels? I might hop over to PPRUNE and see what people are saying over there, yes leisure is expensive but by time I've got a few hours in my book flying for leisure I couldve funded my commercial licences twice I think ill take your advice, ill take a job on the rail, as a guard/conductor get my PPL and if the industry is looking up, well ill got for my other licences!

Definitely don't give up on it. Get involved as much as you can without making financial commitments.

Join your local flying club. Make contacts. All the guys and girls i know who are in good jobs got there by who they knew. It's a industry where you need someone to put your CV in front of the chief pilot's nose.

Enjoy getting your PPL. When aviation recovers, then you'll be in a good position to get a decent flying gig, without having to sacrifice your lifestyle.

 

[Thebullet]

I went to an assessment day last week and there was 3 pilots there including myself, one had over 6000 hours flying embraers and has recently been made redundant, it makes you realise the situation is dire.
There is more job security in the railway than the aviation sector but I think that depends on what job you do. Some TOC's are more at risk than others while certain jobs in NR are more stable.

Don't disregard joining the forces, I did at 21 years of age and it gave me skills and experiences civi street could never but then after 6 years I was ready for a new challenge.

Also you would be very fortunate to secure a position as a Conductor/Driver straight after college. These positions are like gold dust with thousands of people applying.

One thing a lot of drivers have in common is that a big majority are ex forces/blue light services were most have been in high pressure situations on a regular basis or with varied life experience

 

[TheGoldfish]

Im going slightly off topic but how safe do you really think the railway is as far as job security?

everyone sees that airlines are being decimated at the moment but as an industry outsider I don’t see how the railway can escape unscathed with the (I assume) drop in passenger numbers and potentially now many commuters permanently being allowed to work from home.

I ask this as I am currently in a 100% secure government job but am sat in a talent pool for a conductor position so worry if the offer ever comes I would be taking a huge risk accepting as surely the TOCs are businesses and cannot keep losing revenue without staffing levels taking a huge hit at some point down the line (excuse the pun).

I was in a 100% secure gov job .... till I wasn’t ... and then they also stripped away our pensions ..which was unlawful at the time ..so they changed the law and did it anyway .... I don’t thing there’s anysuch thing as a 100 secure position anymore ... you just have to make yr best choice .... wherever it leads u ....

 

[Class2ldn]

@choochoochoo, correct the industry is in a state and will be for the next 5 years minimum until all the other High hour pilots are picked up by airlines, the airlines that survive that is! Many captains bejng made redundant thats my biggest fear; I'm not a fan of wanting to spend 60k+ on training to be at the job centre should my employer fail. My attitude has always been to work and fund my training in modules (modular route) and jump in the industry when the times right, and being a conductor or driver would free up those funds to do so Without having to worry about living! Many easyjet cadets have been cancelled haunting their training and some losing plenty of pounds and what have noticed during corona virus is how stable, from an outsider veiw, the rail industry has been throughout.

@Rockhopper thanks for the response, off the line a driver earns much more than a pilot thats for sure however, with the use of pay points that you can go through each year and increase your take home, as I said there's more than money that concerns me, such as environment, lifestyle as well as day to day, the veiws from the flight deck at 6am down to the canaries or east are breath taking, and seeing the passengers disembark after a 4 hour flight is some what rewarding dont forget the long haul gigs, a day in the Caribbean, though some long haul flights are only a 24hr stay some do extend.

* additional information*
Salaries

Jet2 skipper : 114k pre tax
Jet2 first officer 62k pre tax

Virgin atlantic skipper: 162k pre tax
Virgin atlantic first officer: 104k pre tax

I'm not versed on train driver salaries however I'm sure its around 50k pre tax

You won't get anywhere near them amounts for a while and I'm pretty sure virgin first officers are not on 100k .
I know a pilot who was trained by easyjet, even after he qualified he had to move to newcastle for the first 4 years to be able to pay off the debt of the loans and live. He started on 25k a year .
Hes now a captain after 5 years on over 100k but even he said its not something he'd do again in hindsight, although he loves his job he didn't realise it would be such a struggle for that long.
Its something I looked at but to have that amount of debt in such an unstable environment especially after whats happened is not something I'd want to be doing.

Keep your nose clean on the trains you'll have a guaranteed job for life.

 

[AlphaHotel]

Definitely don't give up on it. Get involved as much as you can without making financial commitments.

Join your local flying club. Make contacts. All the guys and girls i know who are in good jobs got there by who they knew. It's a industry where you need someone to put your CV in front of the chief pilot's nose.

Enjoy getting your PPL. When aviation recovers, then you'll be in a good position to get a decent flying gig, without having to sacrifice your lifestyle.

That's my best bet even being a conductor for a few years still will allow me to train for my licences while not emptying the piggy bank just to get by, ill also be able to train and at the end have little to no debt

 

[LCC106]

You only live once and are a long time dead. Follow your heart but with your eyes open. I know a guy who was a part time pilot for a budget airline but worked part time doing audits in abattoirs to make his salary up and that was before COVID. The RAF is a feasible way to do achieve your goal. The air industry is as has been mentioned making lots of people redundant, therefore making it harder to get the jobs that are advertised. The salary on the railway is not to be sniffed at and it’s a very sensible idea to go down this route, but not forever if it’s not really where your heart lies.

 

[AlphaHotel]

I'd just like to say gentlemen, I came here and was expecting to be helped by a few and laughed at by the many, however you guys have been the biggest help and actually gave me options and ways to go about it so I'd like to say I'm extremely grateful to each and everyone one of you, i absolutely agree with you

@LCC106 People following their dream but then turning it into a nightmare with their eye balls up in debt and it ruins their career and they just don't enjoy it, however I'm sure ill enjoy a job on the rails as much as i would as a pilot So honestly I wouldnt mind sitting in a cab doing it as long as i never lose sight of what I'm aiming for!

 

[choochoochoo]

The drivers who used to be pilots where I work have all said they've not looked back. So I'm sure you'll enjoy a life on the railway, until it's time to take to the skies.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I don't know too much about the aviation industry but its fair to say that it has been hit massively in the last six months by the Covid 19 virus. Only yesterday, Virgin announced they are cutting a further 1000 jobs.

One of my friends who is now 42, opted for a career change a few years ago and set his sights on being a pilot. He has forked out thousands on training and taking exams only to be left hitting a brick wall in progressing his dream further. Sadly, he is now older and is paying off a small debt. He has realised his chances of ever becoming a pilot are very slim and will simply remain a dream.

The rail industry is definately a safer bet but sadly rail jobs now are extremely sought after, with an avalanche of applications. I've realised myself that it is very very competitive and jobs in railway world are getting harder to step into.

I do think this country is going to go through one of its biggest periods of austerity with massive unemployment. We haven't even reached the end of the furlough scheme yet which will result in more and more people out of work and jobs being more and more sought after.

The good thing is that as a 17 year old you have time on your side. I do think things will slowly start to improve once the true impact of the Coronavirus has been established on the economy but I have a feeling it will be a bumpy ride over the next few years for anyone progressing careers and simply wanting a career change.

CJ

 

[Economist]

I'm a train driver and I'm currently doing my PPL, I long contemplated a career in the flight deck of an airliner but now I think I'll be staying put on the railway for the foreseeable future.

Pre-Covid, there was one airline in Europe open to English-only speakers which had really good legacy T&Cs, that's a national carrier which paints it's airliners green. They also did a fully funded sponsorship and whilst living costs aren't exactly cheap where they are based, it was IMHO, worth it.

Most airlines in Europe will use Covid as an excuse to scrap good T&Cs, they will get away with it by using potential job losses as leverage. There's a thread on a well known forum (which I'm sure the OP has heard of) which details how one big airline has driven a wedge between the more senior pilots on a 24 point pay scale and the more junior pilots on a 34 point pay scale, long prior to this morale was apparently very low. The other airlines won't shy away from doing whatever they can to reduce their cost base in order to stay afloat and personally, I wouldn't bet on BALPA being able to get those T&Cs back when things return to normal. Even when the times are good, the fact that it's now only 200-hours to get an fATPL means that there are more pilots than jobs, it's not like the US where they had a massive shortage due to the 1500-hour rule and pilot unions were able to demand the earth and get it.

I don't know much about the military option, except that I've heard that you do need to be able to adapt to the military lifestyle. It's apparently expected that you'll be officer first, specialism second.

The railway, on the other hand, is an essential public service and will need drivers in order to function. Freight and open-access operators will likely take a hit unfortunately but franchised passenger operations should hopefully be much safer. One of the keys to making the railway attractive to passengers (and therefore generate revenue), is frequency of service and for that staff are required.

Train driving isn't easy to get into, you'll need during the assessment process to be able to demonstrate a reasonable amount of life experience as you'll see from reading the threads about the process, bear in mind that you cannot fail the tests twice if you want to go driving. If pilots decide to apply in droves (and they may well do so), things will get a lot more competitive at the sift and final interview.

At the moment, it's going to be a case of going to uni, getting into debt and riding the poor economy out (probably worth it if you get into Oxbridge), or getting a job (any job for now) and working your way up. An apprenticeship would of course be nice but everything is going to become competitive in the extreme IMHO.

 

[4F89]

I'm a train driver and I'm currently doing my PPL, I long contemplated a career in the flight deck of an airliner but now I think I'll be staying put on the railway for the foreseeable future.

Pre-Covid, there was one airline in Europe open to English-only speakers which had really good legacy T&Cs, that's a national carrier which paints it's airliners green. They also did a fully funded sponsorship and whilst living costs aren't exactly cheap where they are based, it was IMHO, worth it.

Most airlines in Europe will use Covid as an excuse to scrap good T&Cs, they will get away with it by using potential job losses as leverage. There's a thread on a well known forum (which I'm sure the OP has heard of) which details how one big airline has driven a wedge between the more senior pilots on a 24 point pay scale and the more junior pilots on a 34 point pay scale, long prior to this morale was apparently very low. The other airlines won't shy away from doing whatever they can to reduce their cost base in order to stay afloat and personally, I wouldn't bet on BALPA being able to get those T&Cs back when things return to normal. Even when the times are good, the fact that it's now only 200-hours to get an fATPL means that there are more pilots than jobs, it's not like the US where they had a massive shortage due to the 1500-hour rule and pilot unions were able to demand the earth and get it.

I don't know much about the military option, except that I've heard that you do need to be able to adapt to the military lifestyle. It's apparently expected that you'll be officer first, specialism second.

The railway, on the other hand, is an essential public service and will need drivers in order to function. Freight and open-access operators will likely take a hit unfortunately but franchised passenger operations should hopefully be much safer. One of the keys to making the railway attractive to passengers (and therefore generate revenue), is frequency of service and for that staff are required.

Train driving isn't easy to get into, you'll need during the assessment process to be able to demonstrate a reasonable amount of life experience as you'll see from reading the threads about the process, bear in mind that you cannot fail the tests twice if you want to go driving. If pilots decide to apply in droves (and they may well do so), things will get a lot more competitive at the sift and final interview.

At the moment, it's going to be a case of going to uni, getting into debt and riding the poor economy out (probably worth it if you get into Oxbridge), or getting a job (any job for now) and working your way up. An apprenticeship would of course be nice but everything is going to become competitive in the extreme IMHO.

Why will freight take a hit? If anything, people will want to buy more stuff, not less, and renewals etc still need doing. Coal went bye byes, but aside from that, I see no issues with medium to long term business, unlike TOCs which will suffer for longer IMO

 

[Economist]

Why will freight take a hit? If anything, people will want to buy more stuff, not less, and renewals etc still need doing. Coal went bye byes, but aside from that, I see no issues with medium to long term business, unlike TOCs which will suffer for longer IMO

I've known of at least one freight company which furloughed some of it's drivers, I think they're back now thankfully. I don't know of any franchised passenger operation (except Eurostar, if that counts) which has done the same. A few passenger TOCs are potentially going to have serious driver shortages, I know of one place which relied on RDW despite a reduced timetable.