Decimalisation - 40 years ago today

[theblackwatch]

Forty years ago today, decimal currency was introduced in the UK. No more pounds, shillings and pence - it must have been quite difficult for many people (particularly the elderly) to get used to it, particularly as cash was the normal method of payment for goods rather than cards which a lot of people use and take for granted nowadays.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Should have made a 99p coin while they were at it

When did our other measurements (lenght, weight etc) become based on 100 metric instead of imperial?

Also, if anyone could explain to me what a shilling, penny, etc were worth (i.e. 4 pennies = 1 shilling), I would be most grateful.

Thanks

 

[theblackwatch]

If they'd made a 99p coin, lots of things would cost £x.98! One reason for charging 99p is apparently it forces till operators to actually record the sale, as they have to open the till to get the 1p change out - no slipping the odd coin into the back pocket!

There were 12 pennies in a shilling, and a shilling became 5p. So a 'sixpence' was worth 2 1/2 p in new money - not that I'm old enough to remember such currency though!

 

[deltic1989]

wiki says 12 pence= 1 shilling and 20 shillings= 1 pound

 

[Mvann]

And I've got 219 sixpence pieces. They weren't phased out until the mid 70s.

 

[me123]

I was loving all the old interviews with old people in the news today on BBC Scotland. In particular, one "Glesga Grannie" ranting that she "couldna dae ma shoppin!" and that she "cannae get ma food!" and that she'll "Have tae starve!" and other such stuff

Of course, no one starved to death despite the doomsday journalism, and it was actually a fairly smooth transition. One of the benefits they had doing almost everything in cash was that they had to learn the value of what they were paying for. If it had happened nowadays with the cards, people would just have popped it in the machine, punched in their PIN, and gone away not really having a clue how much they'd paid (and possibly had a catastrophic bank statement at the end of the month!). I suppose the hardest thing would have been that many of the old coins were still in use, just worth different things (eg 10s was worth 120d, now worth 50p). At least at the €urozone changeover (for example), they all had new money to play with alongside the old stuff.

A few days ago, coincidently, I found an old bag of ha'pennys (in an old brown paper coin bag), and a couple of thrupenny bits in my house. I know people around the world think our current coins are weird; they clearly haven't seen the old ones! The thrupenny bit's the oddest coin I've ever seen in my life!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If they'd made a 99p coin, lots of things would cost £x.98! One reason for charging 99p is apparently it forces till operators to actually record the sale, as they have to open the till to get the 1p change out - no slipping the odd coin into the back pocket!

That was the old reason, and it still holds true in most small shops. But over time, we've started buying things more with plastic (as you've said) and using bigger shops, whilst the 99p tradition is maintained. You even see it buying cars (£7995 instead of £8000) and petrol (notice that prices are always xxx.9p/litre). There's a very good reason for this; apparently it makes things look cheaper and it boosts sales. So there ya go.

To be honest, though, I've never really noticed it. Whenever I see things at £2.99, I think it's £3 and I'm going to get a useless piece of copper in my change.

 

[krus_aragon]

There were 240 pennies in an old pound. Mathematicians will tell you that 240 is an easily dividable number, (2,3,4,5,6,8,10,12,15,16,20,24,30,40,48,60,80, and 120 all divide exactly into 240) which was a lot more important in the days of mental arithmetic.

I was told at the Jorvik Centre in York that Viking
smiths were commissioned to strike 250 coins at a time, keeping 10 as payment for their work. The 240:1 ratio dates further back to Roman times at least.

A shilling was worth 12 pence (20 in a pound). Two shillings were worth one florin (10 in a pound). Five shillings were equivalent to a crown (4 in a pound), and there was also a half crown (8 in a pound) worth two and a half shillings. Another coin, still referred to in horseracing is the guinea, which was worth 21 shillings, or just over a pound.

Other small denomination coins were known by more obvious name, such as the thrupence, sixpence, ha'penny, and farthing (1/4 penny).

During decimalisation switchover the old pound and new pound were the same, but a new penny was worth more than an old penny. The 5p and 10p pieces introduced were the same size and value as the shilling and two shilling coins, and shilling pieces were still in circulation until today's smaller 5/10p coins were introduced.

While all the old coins had their own names, only the penny, shilling and pound were used when writing values down. The abbreviations for pound, shilling and pence were l, s, and d, from the latin coins libra, solidus, denarius, which had the same ratios. The symbol £ is a stylised L struck through horizontally (similarly the dollar's symbol $ is an S struck through vertically).

And despite everything I've written here, 40 years ago I wasn't even born!

 

[yorksrob]

If they'd made a 99p coin, lots of things would cost £x.98! One reason for charging 99p is apparently it forces till operators to actually record the sale, as they have to open the till to get the 1p change out - no slipping the odd coin into the back pocket!

There were 12 pennies in a shilling, and a shilling became 5p. So a 'sixpence' was worth 2 1/2 p in new money - not that I'm old enough to remember such currency though!

I seem to remember that the shilling and 2 shilling coins were around until the early nineties (some old enough to have King George on the back of them). Fortunately I'm too young to remember decimalisation, but my dad recalls everyone being told that some prices would be rounded up and some rounded down. Needless to say, for every price rounded down about nine were rounded up !

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There was a lot of work in the IT industry at the time, planning the (relatively) massive one-off operation which would take place over the weekend while all accounts, (excepting company balance sheets which would just be in Pounds), through their ledgers, banking, day books, even petty cash books all had to be converted and reconcilled before trading again.
In those days computing was much simpler but possibly as prone to error and there was little understanding of how to do a test-run of all the conversions with the opportunity to check the results.

There were lots of stories about unscrupulous people who managed to trim off some of the inevitable rounding-errors to their personal advantage. And even more stories about traders taking the opportunity to increase their prices.

Looking at the way some bank staff still reach for their calculator to work out the change of a note given for some smaller amount, I'm still not persuaded that decimalisation has made money handling any easier!

 

[Mvann]

Should have made a 99p coin while they were at it

When did our other measurements (lenght, weight etc) become based on 100 metric instead of imperial?

Thanks

metric measurements has taken a lot longer to take over completely, and it's mainly down to eu law. We were using both imperial and metric when I was at college in the late 80s. The problem with imperial measurements is that a U.S. Gallon is not the same as an English gallon and a castillian foot is not the same as an English foot.

 

[me123]

There were 240 pennies in an old pound. Mathematicians will tell you that 240 is an easily dividable number, (2,3,4,5,6,8,10,12,15,16,20,24,30,40,48,60,80, and 120 all divide exactly into 240) which was a lot more important in the days of mental arithmetic.

Although that may well be the case, I don't really know my 16 or 48 times table . Working things out with three units (ie, pounds, shillings and pence) must have been really tedious. If you had, say 375d, that's a pound a 135d, which is 6s and 15d. So £1, 16s, 5d. Whereas, if you had 375p nowadays, it's £3.75. Simples.

Of course, we still have this problem with imperial measurements. Although using 12 might be great for mental arithmetic in the smaller numbers, when you get to bigger numbers it gets really crazy. 12 inches in a foot and 3 feet in a yard is easy enough, but 1,760 yards in a mile just goes beyond bonkers. And those of you who work out mileage in miles and chains will know that that's not the easiest sum in the world. None of it's too hard, but it's needlessly time-consuming, and probably more prone to error. Especially if the person forgets what random number of unit A is in unit B.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Looking at the way some bank staff still reach for their calculator to work out the change of a note given for some smaller amount, I'm still not persuaded that decimalisation has made money handling any easier!

If I were to tender a £20 note for a £3.78 bill, they need not work it out. They can just do it as they're getting the change as follows:
£3.78 bill
+2p coin
£3.80
+20p coin
£4.00
+£1 coin
£5
+£5 note
£10
+£10 note
all makes £20

I suppose they do it just to be careful, but it's actually really simple if you work it out that way rather than doing the maths then working out what coins you need. Of course, if you've got a machine that does the maths for you, then you'd be foolish to ignore it.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I suppose they do it just to be careful, but it's actually really simple if you work it out that way rather than doing the maths then working out what coins you need. Of course, if you've got a machine that does the maths for you, then you'd be foolish to ignore it.

Yes, you're quite right. I'm quite good at it myself but I know many folks who're not.

But, in the bank (a front-line job in a high street bank), and when its a £10 note offered for £9:90 and (s)he reaches for the calculator?

BTW. Does anybody here own an old calculator which adds/subtracts pre-decimal money? Or even seen one? Or better still, the huge calculators called comptometers with a keyboard that must have been over 2 feet by 2 feet? (Oh no, I meant to say 600x600mm, obviously).

 

[Blue Pool Halt]

Did anyone mention a shilling was also known as a 'bob' . A 10 bob note was 10 shillings.

 

[CheapAndNerdy]

I remember the songs they played at school (primary) to help us remember:

On the 15th day of February 1971
There will be
Decimal currency
And as you will see
There's a hundred new pence in one pound

Five new pence in one shilling
Ten new pence in two
It may seem a little bit odd at first
But it is good for you

 

[flymo]

I can vaguely remember pre-decimal currency, but not much.

In the early 70's I was a young child and after decimalisation I remember the sixpence was still legal tender and valued at 2½p which as a young child confused me no end. "But mam it says sixpence on it and it is called a sixpence so why is it only worth 2½ pence?" type of thing. As for it being called a tanner, half shilling and sixpence and worth 2½p all at the same time well I just couldn't get my head round it . I was convinced there was a conspiracy to defraud me out of my sweeties and made my feelings known..... I'm sure I lost out on the sweeties somewhere along the line

The 5p and 10p we called either shilling (or bob) and two shilling (two bob). Still had some thrupenny bits somewhere for years but I don't think they were legal after 1971.

A quick joke about metrication of weights and measures:

An elderly lady goes into a fruiterer and asks for a pound of apples.
"Sorry madam, we don't do them any more it is all kilos now." said the vendor.
"Oh, I'm sorry, a pound of kilos then"

........well it made me laugh anyway

 

[MikeWh]

Apologies for being pedantic, but I remember decimalisation very well. I was 8 and a bit at the time and on St Valentine's Day 1971 my Dad decided we should go on a train ride. And after he'd bought the tickets he gave me and my brother and sister one shiny new bronze coin each. You see while the official date was Monday Feb 15th, British Rail started using the new coins on the Sunday.

It's funny how a rail forum hasn't mentioned that fact.

 

[LE Greys]

With the current levels of inflation, the penny and tuppence are practically worthless anyway. Indeed, 1971 tuppences are worth threepence as scrap metal. I've often wondered whether it wouldn't be worth withdrawing them and introducing a new copper coin worth 5p as the minimal level of currency (after all, the halfpenny went that way). Americans call their equivalent the nickle, how about calling ours the shilling?

 

[Deerfold]

There's a London Buses decimalisation information poster near me now - I'll see if I can upload a photo of it (probably next week I'm afraid).

 

[Oracle]

On the route 91 bus to school it suddenly became "Two-and-a-half p half please" instead of "Sixpenny half please." I later worked in a supermarkety and we had dual pricing...black for old money and red for 'New Pence'. It later became obvious that prices could then by increased by the new money, meaning an effective doubling, as customers forgot the value difference. This in turn led to price inflation. I distinctly remember that most of my job was changing price tags on stock on shelves upward, each week.

I gather that at one stage there was discussion about whether to call the new currency dollars and cents, as per Australia, and to make the new pound, as it was settled-upon, worth what was previously 10 shillings or 'ten bob'. In my opinion they should have done so.

A 'thruppeny bit' was 3d, with that eight-sided shape, 'tanner' was 6d, 'bob' 1 shilling or 1s, 'florin' 2s, 'half-crown' 2s 6d or 2/6d, 'crown' 5s (very rarely used escept for the Winston Churchill memorial coin, 1965), 'ten bob note', 10s, a 'quid' £1 and a 'guinea' £1 1s or £1.05 today.

 

[Bighat]

Should have made a 99p coin while they were at it

When did our other measurements (lenght, weight etc) become based on 100 metric instead of imperial?

Also, if anyone could explain to me what a shilling, penny, etc were worth (i.e. 4 pennies = 1 shilling), I would be most grateful.

Thanks

On the day before decimilisation, I travelled to Birmingham from Euston and back.

Travelled first class, my ticket cost me under £7, and although it was the day BEFORE the official date, the fare, and my change, was in decimal denominations.

To return to your question, the currency consisted of the following:-

A farthing = 4 to one (old penny), 960 to £1

A halfpenny = 2 to one penny, 480 to £1

A penny = 240 to £1

A threepenny 'bit' (an eight sided coin) = 4 to 1 shilling (written 1/-), 80 to £1

A sixpence = 2 to 1 shilling, 40 to £1

A shilling = 20 to £1

A florin = 10 to £1

Half a crown = two shillings and sixpence, 8 to £1

A crown (legal tender, but not generally circulated) = 5 shillings, 4 to £1

A ten shilling NOTE (also slang a ten 'bob' note) = 10 shillings, 2 to £1

*hence the phrase referring to a deviant person, 'bent as a nine bob note'!

A pound NOTE (no coins then) = 20 shillings

A five pound NOTE (largest single currency unit in general use/circulation!)
So the smallest coint with DIRECT exchange value was the sixpence (expressed 6d, where 'd' rather than 'p' was used for pence) valued at 2 and a half new pence (the halhpenny soon was withdrawn from new currency.

Next was the one shilling coin (written as 1/-), which became 5 new pence.

Also, the florin, the two shilling coin (2/-), which became 10 new pence. (added due to memory fade earlier!)

The half crown, although having a direct convertibility as 12 and a half pence, was soon withdrawn (and replaced by the 10p coin).

The CROWN is still legal tender, and featured from time to time in special mintings, with a value of 25p

The ten shilling note was replaced by the 50p piece, and the one pound (£1) note by the now ubiquitous coin.

Metrification of weight and measure has endured a FAR more stormy course, and although now weight and volume (in the sale of food is now required in shops), the sale of beer is still allowed in pints. There is MUCH resistance to changing this.

As I tend to be bloody minded myself, when buying 'loose' items in Tesco, such as ham/cheese, I demand 454 grams (= 1 imperial pound weight).

Spirits, which were sold as fractions of a gill (now THAT'S a whole new ball game), are now dispensed in metric measures!

So long as our American cousins still exist, the imperial units WILL survive, although they DO have problems with gallons (a US gallon is less than a UK gallon) and tons weight, this too is smaller, but I suppose you DO have to make allowances.

As was said by a famous american film actor once, a man needs to know his limits!

 

[kentuckytony]

[Somewhat off topic]

I have a cat named Tuppence.
But named after a fictional 1920's detective played by Francesca Annis from an Agatha Christie-inspired TV series.

 

[Oswyntail]

Bighat - you have forgotten the Florin - 2 shillings, 10 to the pound, exactly 10p. And I think the threepenny bit had 12 sides - certainly a beautifully freakish coin.
What i do remember is how satisfying some of the coins were to hold. A penny really fitted in a small hand (about 3cm across), but my favourites were the florin (2.8cm) and the mighty half-crown which really made you feel rich (3.5 cmish). The smaller denomination coins were copper, the 3d piece was brassy (as I said, freaky) and the others were silvery.

 

[route101]

Got a bag of old coins myself and interesting to look at them Must say Scotland still has £1 notes though they are getting rarer.

 

[Bighat]

Bighat - you have forgotten the Florin - 2 shillings, 10 to the pound, exactly 10p. And I think the threepenny bit had 12 sides - certainly a beautifully freakish coin.
What i do remember is how satisfying some of the coins were to hold. A penny really fitted in a small hand (about 3cm across), but my favourites were the florin (2.8cm) and the mighty half-crown which really made you feel rich (3.5 cmish). The smaller denomination coins were copper, the 3d piece was brassy (as I said, freaky) and the others were silvery.

Yes, thanks for the reminder!

As I typed my post, I was struggling to remeber whether or not the florin was around, you are quite right.

I have ammended my post accordingly!

 

[class156]

Got a bag of old coins myself and interesting to look at them Must say Scotland still has £1 notes though they are getting rarer.

Yep, we do still use them, just haven't had one for ages, i've got about 10 of them so I can feel nostalgic in 20 years time

 

[90019]

Yep, we do still use them, just haven't had one for ages, i've got about 10 of them so I can feel nostalgic in 20 years time

I think you can still get them from banks if you ask. I have a couple lying around somewhere.

 

[Mvann]

We had a scotish £1 note in work just before Xmas. We have also had an isle of man 50p note in work before now. Also tescos scales still weigh in lbs as well as grammes. I only know this as I asked on the deli if they could convert imperial to metric for me.

 

[Tom B]

Scottish £1 notes are indeed in circulation, although not too common - I make a point of getting a wodge from the bank before going down to England - the faces the checkout girls pull are hilarious. As Michael McIntryre put it - "AAAAH! SUPAVISAH!"

 

[90019]

Scottish £1 notes are indeed in circulation, although not too common - I make a point of getting a wodge from the bank before going down to England - the faces the checkout girls pull are hilarious. As Michael McIntryre put it - "AAAAH! SUPAVISAH!"

It's best when they take it without really looking at it and just assume it's a fiver

 

[Tom B]

It's best when they take it without really looking at it and just assume it's a fiver

I would not be able to comment on such instances at all !