December 2026 Timetable Change

[BrianB]

I agree, but it would be hard to operate an evenly spaced 6tph service when 4tph come from the Suttons who already have a standard interval.

I know, the whole core TL timetable is based on 15/30 minute frequencies, none at 10/20

 

[A S Leib]

Elstree and Radlett are outside the GLA boundary and whilst sizeable in themselves I cant see that they justify 6tph off peak

They're not the only cases of stations slightly outside the Greater London border getting a good service due to a lack of better options, like Brentwood getting 8 tph because Shenfield's a natural terminus for the Elizabeth Line, or Moor Park getting 8 tph (and I think meant to rise to 12 tph post-signal upgrades) to give Northwood and Pinner a good service and not, say, leaving Chesham on 1 tph.

 

[class 9]

XC are extending their Edinburgh services to Glasgow Central every 2hrs, which includes a direct train from Bournemouth.

The early morning 2A01 dundee to Aberdeen now start from Edinburgh at 0530

This will only happen if they get the remaining 6 221s that are in store, a Business Case was submitted to the DfT earlier this year.

 

[Baji]

it seems like services from London Victoria to West Croydon/London Bridge has swapped timings.
Services from London Victoria to London Bridge via Crystal Palace will depart London Victoria at **06 and **36 instead of **20 and **50
And services between London Victoria and West Croydon via Crystal Palace will depart London Victoria at **20 and **50 instead of **36 and **06.
Also there seems to be an additional service departing at 20:06 to London Bridge via Crystal Palace and then another one at 20:20

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:VIC/2026-12-16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[London Trains]

it seems like services from London Victoria to West Croydon/London Bridge has swapped timings.
Services from London Victoria to London Bridge via Crystal Palace will depart London Victoria at **06 and **36 instead of **20 and **50
And services between London Victoria and West Croydon via Crystal Palace will depart London Victoria at **20 and **50 instead of **36 and **06.
Also there seems to be an additional service departing at 20:06 to London Bridge via Crystal Palace and then another one at 20:20

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:VIC/2026-12-16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

I mentioned this a few pages back - I'm not too sure why its been done, but I suspect it might relate to the potential future extension of the Victoria to West Croydon via Crystal Palace services to Belmont*, as the current path conflicts with the Victoria to Sutton via Norbury services during the peak (hence the ridiculously long dwells at Norwood Junction in the peaks). As a side note, I think they need to sort out/change the paths of some of the peak extras in this area, as quite a few of them regularly end up delaying other services.

The 15 minute gap between services you mention is presumably to allow the service to swap over to its old xx20/50 path during the late evening (once the West Croydon services stop running) without leaving a 45 minute gap between services - I'm not particularly sure why it needs to return to its old path at these times though, and can't just continue to run at xx06/36 until the end of service.

*https://www.networkrail.co.uk/our-w...way-upgrade-plan/upgrades-to-belmont-station/

 

[Baji]

Has anyone noticed any changes to Southern? Sorry if they've been posted, I did try a search.

The service from Dorking that arrives at Victoria at 10:19 at platform 12 forms the 10:41 London Victoria to Horsham service. But it looks like the train splits as the other part heads to Stewards Lane at same platform at 11:16. So there Looks like there may be some changes regarding number of carriages on at least one of those services But I don’t know whether it the 10:41 Horsham service will run with 4 cars instead of 5 cars or the 09:17 Dorking to London Victoria service that arrives at 10:19 will run with 10 cars instead of 8- Real train times don’t seem to show how many carriages run on future timetable

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:VIC/2026-12-16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2026 ==

I mentioned this a few pages back - I'm not too sure why its been done, but I suspect it might relate to the potential future extension of the Victoria to West Croydon via Crystal Palace services to Belmont*, as the current path conflicts with the Victoria to Sutton via Norbury services during the peak (hence the ridiculously long dwells at Norwood Junction in the peaks). As a side note, I think they need to sort out/change the paths of some of the peak extras in this area, as quite a few of them regularly end up delaying other services.

The 15 minute gap between services you mention is presumably to allow the service to swap over to its old xx20/50 path during the late evening (once the West Croydon services stop running) without leaving a 45 minute gap between services - I'm not particularly sure why it needs to return to its old path at these times though, and can't just continue to run at xx06/36 until the end of service.

*https://www.networkrail.co.uk/our-w...way-upgrade-plan/upgrades-to-belmont-station/

I agree that after 20:00, the Services heading to London Bridge via Crystal Palace should continue to depart at xx06/xx36 instead of going back the the old departure times that way a service could be saved for somewhere else.
So looks like the London Victoria to London Bridge sevices will no longer interwork with the London Victoria to West Croydon services.
I always had a feeling that when they proposed about Belmont station upgrade and increasing the frequency from 2tph to 4tph, it would be the London Victoria to West Croydon service via Crystal Palace that would be extended to Belmont. Although no idea whether after west Croydon whether it would run fast to Sutton and then Belmont or call at stations via Wallington. But if it’s planed for 2027, I don’t get why they need to change the swap the London Victoria to West Croydon timings now if that is the case (for December 2026)

 

[London Trains]

So looks like the London Victoria to London Bridge sevices will no longer interwork with the London Victoria to West Croydon services.
I always had a feeling that when they proposed about Belmont station upgrade and increasing the frequency from 2tph to 4tph, it would be the London Victoria to West Croydon service via Crystal Palace that would be extended to Belmont. Although no idea whether after west Croydon whether it would run fast to Sutton and then Belmont or call at stations via Wallington. But if it’s planed for 2027, I don’t get why they need to change the swap the London Victoria to West Croydon timings now if that is the case (for December 2026)

I highly suspect they will serve all stops, as it isn't really possible to run fast for pathing reasons - towards Belmont, they arrive at West Croydon 3 minutes after the Victoria to Epsom Downs service leaves, so it would be following it all the way to Belmont, and similarly towards Victoria, the service leaves West Croydon 3 minutes before the Sutton to Victoria via Norbury service arrives during the peak, so it would have to run just ahead of it all the way from Sutton.

Whilst the extension of these services is a positive change, it is slightly odd that the line continues to get more and more services which are/will be lightly loaded, whilst the Epsom to London Bridge service is the most popular service along the line by a country mile, with these services regularly leaving people behind at stations because they are completely rammed full.

 

[PGAT]

Whilst the extension of these services is a positive change, it is slightly odd that the line continues to get more and more services which are/will be lightly loaded, whilst the Epsom to London Bridge service is the most popular service along the line by a country mile, with these services regularly leaving people behind at stations because they are completely rammed full.

Not much can really be done about that as adding more trains onto the fasts is kind of a non-starter. The slower London Bridge services via Norbury in peak times usually carry no passengers until Selhurst

 

[London Trains]

Not much can really be done about that as adding more trains onto the fasts is kind of a non-starter. The slower London Bridge services via Norbury in peak times usually carry no passengers until Selhurst

In theory it wouldn't be impossible to add an extra 2tph onto the fasts - the old Caterham/Tattenham Corner path at xx17/47 is unused, so it might be possible to move those services back to their old path (the downside of doing this is that they would lose their Norwood Junction stop, but for some reason some of them don't stop there in the peaks anyway?), and use the xx10/40 paths for more services via West Croydon. Sending these services to Epsom would require the timings of the Victoria to Dorking/Horsham services to be changed though, as the paths would conflict with one another.

I don't really understand why some of the London Bridge via Norbury services start from Sutton in the morning peak, there doesn't seem to be anything stopping the use of Platform 5 at East Croydon at these times, and very few people use them as you mention. Hopefully the West Croydon turnback will be used for some of these peak extras if/when the Victoria to West Croydon via Crystal Palace services are extended to Belmont.

 

[Class 170101]

This will only happen if they get the remaining 6 221s that are in store, a Business Case was submitted to the DfT earlier this year.

Seems an odd thing to do given that there are still gaps in their provision at Doncaster, but more importantly they have overcrowding issues on their core route (say between York / Newcastle and Bristol / Reading) surely they need to use those units to strengthen existing services first?

 

[cle]

Is there any improvement to the London Bridge - Tulse Hill (via Peckham Rye) services in frequency?

 

[Timmyd]

Is there any improvement to the London Bridge - Tulse Hill (via Peckham Rye) services in frequency?

As a frequent user, the two annoying things are the 15-15-30 gaps in the evening since the Beckenham Junction train was reduced to hourly as a Covid measure, and the 30-minute Sunday frequency. These things, combined with all trains reduced to 6 car when the 455s were withdrawn, reflects this route always being an afterthought compared with most Metro services. Otherwise every 15 mins frequency feels sufficient.

 

[London Trains]

Is there any improvement to the London Bridge - Tulse Hill (via Peckham Rye) services in frequency?

No, there doesn't seem to be any changes except for the East Croydon services being retimed to leave London Bridge one minute earlier at xx00/30 instead of xx01/31.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2026 ==

As a frequent user, the two annoying things are the 15-15-30 gaps in the evening since the Beckenham Junction train was reduced to hourly as a Covid measure, and the 30-minute Sunday frequency. These things, combined with all trains reduced to 6 car when the 455s were withdrawn, reflects this route always being an afterthought compared with most Metro services. Otherwise every 15 mins frequency feels sufficient.

I do think a fair trade off would be to restore all services to 8 coaches, but remove the London Bridge to Sutton via Tulse Hill and Hackbridge peak extra, which doesn't appear to be massively busy in my experience (I'm not a regular user of the line however) - this would provide the same capacity as now during the hour the peak extra runs (4x8=4x6+1x8), and would provide more capacity throughout the peaks (and all day).

 

[Timmyd]

No, there doesn't seem to be any changes except for the East Croydon services being retimed to leave London Bridge one minute earlier at xx00/30 instead of xx01/31.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2026 ==


I do think a fair trade off would be to restore all services to 8 coaches, but remove the London Bridge to Sutton via Tulse Hill and Hackbridge peak extra, which doesn't appear to be massively busy in my experience (I'm not a regular user of the line however) - this would provide the same capacity as now during the hour the peak extra runs (4x8=4x6+1x8), and would provide more capacity throughout the peaks (and all day).

I’d agree with that. The problem with the reduction to 6 cars is that the 377/3 units are also very low density and not really suited to inner suburban services (I think they were intended for Coastway originally?). That’s mostly no bad thing for us passengers as they’re super comfortable and spacious (much better than a 700 which you could end up on a 2 hour plus journey on) but they carry many fewer people than an 8 car 455 so a few of the busiest morning peak trains can get quite busy. That said, nothing compared to the crowding on the Thameslink Sutton loop trains.

 

[Baji]

I do think a fair trade off would be to restore all services to 8 coaches, but remove the London Bridge to Sutton via Tulse Hill and Hackbridge peak extra, which doesn't appear to be massively busy in my experience (I'm not a regular user of the line however) - this would provide the same capacity as now during the hour the peak extra runs (4x8=4x6+1x8), and would provide more capacity throughout the peaks (and all day).

I would have thought the additional peak services between London Bridge and Sutton via Forest hill as well as the London Bridge to Sutton via Tulse Hill should run with 6 cars and the London Bridge to East Croydon/Beckenham Jct should run with 8 cars during peak hours.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2026 ==

I don't really understand why some of the London Bridge via Norbury services start from Sutton in the morning peak, there doesn't seem to be anything stopping the use of Platform 5 at East Croydon at these times, and very few people use them as you mention. Hopefully the West Croydon turnback will be used for some of these peak extras if/when the Victoria to West Croydon via Crystal Palace services are extended to Belmont.

I also don’t see the point of the early morning East Croydon to London Victoria services which is only 3-4 minutes behind the Epsom Downs to Victoria services. It would be much better to for the 08:08 Epsom Downs to London Victoria services to increase from 8 cars to 10 cars than to have an empty train following behind which hardly gets used as everyone wanted to get previous train.

 

[PGAT]

I also don’t see the point of the early morning East Croydon to London Victoria services which is only 3-4 minutes behind the Epsom Downs to Victoria services. It would be much better to for the 08:08 Epsom Downs to London Victoria services to increase from 8 cars to 10 cars than to have an empty train following behind which hardly gets used as everyone wanted to get previous train.

The 0741 from East Croydon is useful as it provides 10 minute interval from Selhurst to Victoria plugging a gap. It’s a shame the 0840 doesn’t do this and there aren’t more of these trains in general.

 

[cle]

As a frequent user, the two annoying things are the 15-15-30 gaps in the evening since the Beckenham Junction train was reduced to hourly as a Covid measure, and the 30-minute Sunday frequency. These things, combined with all trains reduced to 6 car when the 455s were withdrawn, reflects this route always being an afterthought compared with most Metro services. Otherwise every 15 mins frequency feels sufficient.

I recall a 6tph / 10 min aspiration for this line, feels a long time ago now though. Also a few first stop Peckham Rye 'semis' which were fun, when I lived there. It's all developed and gentrified a lot since though.

 

[London Trains]

I also don’t see the point of the early morning East Croydon to London Victoria services which is only 3-4 minutes behind the Epsom Downs to Victoria services. It would be much better to for the 08:08 Epsom Downs to London Victoria services to increase from 8 cars to 10 cars than to have an empty train following behind which hardly gets used as everyone wanted to get previous train.

Personally I think these services (0740 and 0840 from East Croydon) should be diverted to Shepherd's Bush, where they used to run before Covid - the West London Line services are ridiculously busy (the existing services desperately need to be lengthened to 8 coaches), and this would provide extra support.

The diversion of these two services to Victoria has also messed up the platforming at Victoria, as it has resulted in some services being forced to interwork to reduce their turnaround time, and has resulted in some services being timetabled to use Platform 8.

 

[infobleep]

1720 Woking stopper is extended to Guildford and the 1732 to Guildford now goes to the bay at Woking

I have also just noticed that the 17:02 service to Guildford will no longer contain first class in the timetable. Only standard class.

Currently 3 services terminating or passing through Guildford, and also stopping at one or more stations between Surbtion and West Byfleet have first class.

In future it will just be the 05:05 to Portsmouth Habour. The other two running currently are the 17:02 and 17:32.

There are no such services with first clsss the other direction.

I also note the 18:02 to Aldershot, which runs fast between Woking and Aldershot will also be standard class only in future.

The services, which do stop at the stations in between Woking and Aldershot will continue to convey first class.

 

[swr444]

I have also just noticed that the 17:02 service to Guildford will no longer contain first class in the timetable. Only standard class.

Currently 3 services terminating or passing through Guildford, and also stopping at one or more stations between Surbtion and West Byfleet have first class.

In future it will just be the 05:05 to Portsmouth Habour. The other two running currently are the 17:02 and 17:32.

There are no such services with first clsss the other direction.

I also note the 18:02 to Aldershot, which runs fast between Woking and Aldershot will also be standard class only in future.

The services, which do stop at the stations in between Woking and Aldershot will continue to convey first class.

Probably as they will be 701s

 

[TEW]

The 1702 Waterloo to Guildford has mostly been booked for stock without First Class for a few years now anyway. It was one of the last 455 diagrams, and after a few months of being booked 450 is now booked 701.

 

[Baji]

Real train times seems to be showing Southern services will be running normal services on Xmas day (25/12/2026)- usually there is no services. I don’t know if that correct.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:VIC/2026-12-25/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[Intercity_225]

Real train times seems to be showing Southern services will be running normal services on Xmas day (25/12/2026)- usually there is no services. I don’t know if that correct.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:VIC/2026-12-25/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

I'm going to presume they haven't been cancelled yet, I'd be surprised if they're running such a service, given they can't run a full service on any day!

 

[800002]

I'm going to presume they haven't been cancelled yet, I'd be surprised if they're running such a service, given they can't run a full service on any day!

Indeed.
Christmas week doesn't get bid for another 4 or 5 weeks.

 

[Segedunum]

Real train times seems to be showing Southern services will be running normal services on Xmas day (25/12/2026)- usually there is no services. I don’t know if that correct.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:VIC/2026-12-25/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Its showing everything as running on Christmas Day because timetables have only been bid up to Week 32 (07-13 November).

Christmas is the back end of Week 38 (Boxing Day the start of 39), so just over five weeks until you'll see the cancellations all get bid.

 

[MasterPhillips]

I have noticed that the 0651 from Reading to Redhill doesn’t seem to be in the new timetable ( unless it still hasnt been loaded yet)

If this is no longer running, that leaves an almost hour gap in services on the Reading to Gatwick line, and an almost hour and a half gap at local stations such as Crowthorne, Sandhurst etc.

 

[RealTrains07]

When combined with the existing Shrewsbury service this gives Darlaston and Willenhall a train about every 30 minutes from Birmingham, but in the opposite direction the two trains are only 5 minutes apart followed by a 55 minute gap.

I heard on another thread that the plan was that LNR would take over WMRs current path via Willenhall and Darlaston and the WMR Shrewsbury service would therefore return to running via the Stour Valley instead?

Glad to see this was incorrect and Willenhall and Datlaston will have 2 tph

 

[FenMan]

I have noticed that the 0651 from Reading to Redhill doesn’t seem to be in the new timetable ( unless it still hasnt been loaded yet)

If this is no longer running, that leaves an almost hour gap in services on the Reading to Gatwick line, and an almost hour and a half gap at local stations such as Crowthorne, Sandhurst etc.

Not loaded yet? The return working, departing from Redhill at 0835, is showing.

 

[Siemens Staines]

I have noticed that the 0651 from Reading to Redhill doesn’t seem to be in the new timetable ( unless it still hasnt been loaded yet)

If this is no longer running, that leaves an almost hour gap in services on the Reading to Gatwick line, and an almost hour and a half gap at local stations such as Crowthorne, Sandhurst etc.

In practice it doesn't run that often when it is timetabled to run (40% of the time over the past four weeks)

Search - Recent Train Times

 

[Bald Rick]

I heard on another thread that the plan was that LNR would take over WMRs current path via Willenhall and Darlaston and the WMR Shrewsbury service would therefore return to running via the Stour Valley instead?

Glad to see this was incorrect and Willenhall and Datlaston will have 2 tph

That is the plan for next year