December 2025 Timetable Change - Confirmed changes only

[Toby268]

Currently or from December 14?

Could be worked by the Crew off 1R08 from Lancaster arr 08.00

There are a few inbound workings that run ECS to Wembley such as 9R20 from Manchester arr 09.06 working 5R20 09.42 to Wembley IC Depot

Correct re Lancaster.

 

[390136]

Pass on the 06:54 then Or thinking about it the 06:29 as 24 mins wouldn’t be reliable or give them time to set up. Then again will the 07:00 just run anyway as ECS some days?

It’ll run ECS Monday to Friday

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2025 ==

The 09.30 would be worked by Euston catering crew. The Driver, and Conductor if it was a passenger service, off the 07.00 would not return so quickly


Why does the 09.30 need to be worked by Manchester Catering staff?

Yeah I didn’t think they’re working the 09:30 but there are staff booked to pass on the 0700 I believe

 

[dk1]

It’ll run ECS Monday to Friday

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2025 ==


Yeah I didn’t think they’re working the 09:30 but there are staff booked to pass on the 0700 I believe

All very odd.

 

[Mugby]

With EMR's present Crewe to Derby, Nottingham and Newark services being extended to Lincoln from next month, I notice that the Crewe to Derby section of this service has had it's timetable completely re-written.

The times at present are (give or take a minute or two) xx46 from Derby to Crewe and xx10 from Crewe to Derby.
From December they will be xx26 from Derby and the same, xx26 from Crewe.

Not sure if this will be better or worse for onward connections at Crewe but it does mean that layover time at Crewe will be increased to 40 minutes.
Obviously it needs to fit in with LNW services between Crewe and Stoke and also main line services between Kidsgrove and Stoke.
It can be quite bad for late running at present so whether the revised timings will bring more resiliance will be interesting to see.

 

[dk1]

With EMR's present Crewe to Derby, Nottingham and Newark services being extended to Lincoln from next month, I notice that the Crewe to Derby section of this service has had it's timetable completely re-written.

The times at present are (give or take a minute or two) xx46 from Derby to Crewe and xx10 from Crewe to Derby.
From December they will be xx26 from Derby and the same, xx26 from Crewe.

Not sure if this will be better or worse for onward connections at Crewe but it does mean that layover time at Crewe will be increased to 40 minutes.
Obviously it needs to fit in with LNW services between Crewe and Stoke and also main line services between Kidsgrove and Stoke.
It can be quite bad for late running at present so whether the revised timings will bring more resiliance will be interesting to see.

Will those 40 minutes at Crewe involve a PNB for traincrew do you know?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

With EMR's present Crewe to Derby, Nottingham and Newark services being extended to Lincoln from next month, I notice that the Crewe to Derby section of this service has had it's timetable completely re-written.

The times at present are (give or take a minute or two) xx46 from Derby to Crewe and xx10 from Crewe to Derby.
From December they will be xx26 from Derby and the same, xx26 from Crewe.

Not sure if this will be better or worse for onward connections at Crewe but it does mean that layover time at Crewe will be increased to 40 minutes.
Obviously it needs to fit in with LNW services between Crewe and Stoke and also main line services between Kidsgrove and Stoke.
It can be quite bad for late running at present so whether the revised timings will bring more resiliance will be interesting to see.

Good and bad depending upon ones personal circumstances. The current connections into services to Cardiff via The Marches and to 'the north' along the West Coast are tight. Just a few minutes delay results in a mad dash or an hours wait. Plus any large delay (not sure what the exact time is) results in the train being terminated short at Stoke. This gets the unit and crew back on time but, depending on the delay, connections onwards to Crewe can be long (and from Crewe as no arrival means no departure).

Similar comments will apply throughout the route eg at Derby to / from Matlock.

 

[moonarrow458]

With EMR's present Crewe to Derby, Nottingham and Newark services being extended to Lincoln from next month, I notice that the Crewe to Derby section of this service has had it's timetable completely re-written.

The times at present are (give or take a minute or two) xx46 from Derby to Crewe and xx10 from Crewe to Derby.
From December they will be xx26 from Derby and the same, xx26 from Crewe.

Not sure if this will be better or worse for onward connections at Crewe but it does mean that layover time at Crewe will be increased to 40 minutes.
Obviously it needs to fit in with LNW services between Crewe and Stoke and also main line services between Kidsgrove and Stoke.
It can be quite bad for late running at present so whether the revised timings will bring more resiliance will be interesting to see.

This triggers some changes to calls at Longport.
EMR will no longer call at Longport on the first Eastbound service from Crewe on Monday to Saturdays

Instead Northern will replace this call with an additional Longport stop at 06:34 on 2K10 at 05:43 from Manchester to Stoke. This gives Longport its first service FROM Manchester in a very long time!

EMR will no longer have a late evening weekdays eastbound call at Longport (currently 21:41 towards Nottingham), but will gain a Longport call on a Westbound service (1K79) to Crewe at 21:22.

On Saturday evenings the additional Eastbound Longport calls at 19:29, and 20:29 towards Nottingham, which are in addition to the regular WMT calls, are removed. However the last EMR service from Crewe to Derby will continue to call at Longport on Saturday evenings in lieu of the WMT service which ends earlier on a Saturday.

 

[Peter0124]

Good and bad depending upon ones personal circumstances. The current connections into services to Cardiff via The Marches and to 'the north' along the West Coast are tight. Just a few minutes delay results in a mad dash or an hours wait. Plus any large delay (not sure what the exact time is) results in the train being terminated short at Stoke. This gets the unit and crew back on time but, depending on the delay, connections onwards to Crewe can be long (and from Crewe as no arrival means no departure).

Similar comments will apply throughout the route eg at Derby to / from Matlock.

Its much better for connections to/from Preston and Scotland. The current 10 minute window is often too tight, and its common for the 9Mxx to be rerouted to a different platform if the station is busy.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I think Blackpool is rather seen as a basket case. It was like that in the latter BR days too.

Why is this?

 

[dk1]

Why is this?

It’s just always been rather a hit/miss for Intercity. Not enough year round traffic to justify through services and the loco changes required from electric to diesel. Virgin only reinstated them with Voyagers in marginal time and then once electrified even Avanti had downgraded most services to slower trains via the West Mids and then only because they wernt sending them to Glasgow. Shrewsbury has suffered a similar fate with its through services over the years.

i note now that the two daily through services are operating via the Trent Valley.

 

[Kite159]

Even the 09;39(odd) to Blackpool via the Trent Valley could have been used to sell cheaper advances to Crewe/Warrington/Wigan/Preston to take some of the load from the 09;30 Glasgow & the 09;33 Manchester trains which both can be busy (due to being the first offpeak trains).

However when I've taken it north it's been very lightly loaded

 

[Ellis101]

With it now being November how come I'm still unable to buy tickets from Liverpool South Parkway - Euston and vice versa.
Are they going to push it back to the May timetable?

 

[The Planner]

View attachment 191860
With it now being November how come I'm still unable to buy tickets from Liverpool South Parkway - Euston and vice versa.
Are they going to push it back to the May timetable?

They are in the December timetable.

 

[greataj]

Not sure if it has been said already anywhere but on RTT it looks like all XC calls at Cambridge South have been removed.

Greater Anglia services are showing as calling from 25th January, Great Northern from 23rd February with Thameslink following on the 28th February, which would suggest a phased opening. Crosscountry services however are all now showing as not calling for the foreseeable.

Also looks like XC services to Stansted will reduce back to a 2-hourly service once again on Sundays with only 7 services running to the airport as opposed to 14 currently. At least they continue with the hourly service Monday-Saturday.

 

[Phillipimo]

Not sure if it has been said already anywhere but on RTT it looks like all XC calls at Cambridge South have been removed.

A contractor working on the station has gone bust which has delayed opening until June 2026. Discussed in the station construction thread

 

[greataj]

I see, so if anything XC are actually ahead of the game by removing them. Guess we just wait and see how it pans out then.

 

[Stephen42]

I see, so if anything XC are actually ahead of the game by removing them. Guess we just wait and see how it pans out then.

Yep, the XC schedules (or at least the one I looked at) had an alteration published on 21st October to remove the Cambridge South stop in the permanent timetable for the period. They would have the fewest services to alter which would make it a bit easier.

GTR are publishing weekly alterations removing the stop for a given week roughly 16 weeks out. Greater Anglia have made less frequent alterations and have only covered the period journey planners are showing. Some reason not all their services were removed for the week commencing 25th January. While all the operators may look different, it's a lot more about how their planning teams work rather than what will happen when Cambridge South opens.

 

[Peter749]

View attachment 191860
With it now being November how come I'm still unable to buy tickets from Liverpool South Parkway - Euston and vice versa.
Are they going to push it back to the May timetable?

If you want to book a ticket ask Avanti why you cannot.

 

[Domk]

I notice that there has been a timetable rewrite for GA via Tottenham Hale and London Overground via Seven Sisters. Looks like all trains have been retimed from 13/12

 

[Watershed]

I notice that there has been a timetable rewrite for GA via Tottenham Hale and London Overground via Seven Sisters. Looks like all trains have been retimed from 13/12

Will likely be in connection with the ECML timetable change, due to the impact this has on trains through Cambridge.

 

[Bald Rick]

I notice that there has been a timetable rewrite for GA via Tottenham Hale and London Overground via Seven Sisters. Looks like all trains have been retimed from 13/12

Will likely be in connection with the ECML timetable change, due to the impact this has on trains through Cambridge.

Correct

 

[Mugby]

I've been waiting to see how the new Northern fast service from Sheffield to Leeds fits in and it's quite interesting!

For many years, southbound XC services from Leeds have departed at xx11. from next month they will depart at xx15.
The new Northern service will depart Leeds at xx45 and thus provide a half hourly fast option between Leeds and Sheffield.
The journey time LDS to SHF will be 40 mins by XC and about 45 mins by Northern. However, XC maintains it's xx56 depature time south from Sheffield so shaving 4 mins off the running time from Leeds could be problematical because XC is very often late into SHF already.

In the northbound direction, the times of the new Northern service are quite random varying between xx42 and xx52, this is unfortunate but obviously due to constraints at Sheffield.
The new service is sorely needed, and, together with increased doubling up by XC, should go some way towards alleviating the dreadful overcrowding between the two cities. I intend to go and make some observations (and journeys) at the earliest opportunity.

 

[Kite159]

At least with the XC being changed to aXX;15 it's behind the LNER service so the Leeds - Wakefield short hoppers will be reduced

 

[YorksLad12]

At least with the XC being changed to aXX;15 it's behind the LNER service so the Leeds - Wakefield short hoppers will be reduced

Not necessarily. I used to wonder why the Wakefield College kids didn’t just get the later train (or stand on the XC!) but I’m wondering if it’s the reservation system that stops the/puts them off. It’s only four minutes difference at the moment.

 

[Iskra]

I've been waiting to see how the new Northern fast service from Sheffield to Leeds fits in and it's quite interesting!

For many years, southbound XC services from Leeds have departed at xx11. from next month they will depart at xx15.
The new Northern service will depart Leeds at xx45 and thus provide a half hourly fast option between Leeds and Sheffield.
The journey time LDS to SHF will be 40 mins by XC and about 45 mins by Northern. However, XC maintains it's xx56 depature time south from Sheffield so shaving 4 mins off the running time from Leeds could be problematical because XC is very often late into SHF already.

In the northbound direction, the times of the new Northern service are quite random varying between xx42 and xx52, this is unfortunate but obviously due to constraints at Sheffield.
The new service is sorely needed, and, together with increased doubling up by XC, should go some way towards alleviating the dreadful overcrowding between the two cities. I intend to go and make some observations (and journeys) at the earliest opportunity.

It’s certainly a massive improvement (credit to Northern), but I can see it becoming a roaring success and it being swamped within a few months, particularly on weekends. It will also be hellish if there’s disruption on XC. Is it going to be limited to 2 carriages by use of P17 or will it use a different platform with it going via Westgate? A further issue is going to be punctuality, the other Northern services via Westgate are poor for timekeeping recently.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Is it going to be limited to 2 carriages by use of P17 or will it use a different platform with it going via Westgate?

Different platforms according to realtimetrains

 

[Iskra]

Different platforms according to realtimetrains

That’s positive, at least there is the theoretical ability to strengthen then.

When’s the first service in each direction please?

 

[Peterthegreat]

That’s positive, at least there is the theoretical ability to strengthen then.

When’s the first service in each direction please?

Appears to be 06.45 from Leeds and 06.47 from Sheffield.

 

[Iskra]

Appears to be 06.45 from Leeds and 06.47 from Sheffield.

Thank you!

 

[Kite159]

Not necessarily. I used to wonder why the Wakefield College kids didn’t just get the later train (or stand on the XC!) but I’m wondering if it’s the reservation system that stops the/puts them off. It’s only four minutes difference at the moment.

They are the sort who will board the first available service, even if the first available train is a 4 coach voyager which has arrived from Edinburgh rather than a 9/10 coach LNER service which starts at Leeds (and hence highly likely getting a seat, rather than standing next to the bog).