December 2025 East Coast Timetable

[hexagon789]

Might be that that one's a 5 car? I expect there will be some heavy pricing off from those services.

Oh no, it's already a busy morning service on a 225, would be awfully crammed if moved to a 5 car azuma

Its next working is 1S11 1003 King's Cross to Aberdeen, so it will be a 9-car.

 

[800001]

I think it does sound about the earliest the CAF fleet could be introduced, which would mean a return to 9/10 cars on most trains. If lots of the Leeds services and nearly all the Newcastle ones will be 5-car, and it is these ones that call at Stevenage, then there is a lot of sense in not letting commuters crowd them out - this very reason was why the Chester/North Wales services traditionally had u/s on them at Milton Keynes Central and the Pendolino operated Manchester and Birmingham services did not.

I don't even think a single carriage has started to be built, so 2026 for any Caf to be in service is a no no.

 

[43074]

ETCS signalling between Welwyn and Hitchin is expected to be commissioned in 2026 which should deliver some capacity and performance improvements. Alternatively it could be part of an understanding to review the changes to determine the impact of the restrictions on performance, or it could be the expected timeframe for LNER to roll out contactless card inspection devices.

I suspect it's to determine the impact on performance, maybe the thinking is dwell times for set down calls will be less than those for "open" calls?

Also of note, New Barnet calls have been dropped on Letchworth services in the evening peak.

Pretty sure New Barnet was never planned to be served by evening peak Letchworth services, it was only the morning peak services which had the extra calls (oddly, not sure why!)

 

[mangyiscute]

It doesn't take three quarters of an hour but there was a nice little historical display in the southbound waiting room when I did it maybe a decade ago!

I was there a couple years back and sadly that waiting room is in disrepair and blocked off (although you can see the old leaflets inside) and I can't imagine it's been repaired since then it can't be a priority. It was raining and I accidentally sheltered by the house that's on the northbound platform until a guy told me that I couldn't stay there

 

[James90012]

There are only 3 up LNER trains that call at Stevenage before 8.30am, and none are more than 7 coaches, so I can understand LNER's issue.
0704 (0500 ex Leeds, 225 set)
0750 (0609 ex York, 5-car bimode)
0803 (0605 ex Leeds, 225 set)

Incidentally, "nearly all" the Newcastle daytime services will not be 5-car - half of them will be. The evening services (1N33/34) are 9-car.

9-car: 1N01/02/04/06/08/09/12/15
5-car: 1N00/03/05/07/10/11/13/14

There does appear to be a spare 801/1 5-car unaccounted for, though, so one of the 5-cars could be a 10 (or of course it could work one of the Leeds diagrams instead of a 5).

I happen to be booked on 1N07 on Christmas Eve and that was showing a 10-car on the seat selector.

 

[D1537]

I happen to be booked on 1N07 on Christmas Eve and that was showing a 10-car on the seat selector.

Yes, that doesn't surprise me - that diagram is the obvious one to strengthen if you're choosing one of them. Alternatively they might have changed all of the diagrams around since the version I saw - which was admittedly in August.

Edit: OK, looking at the seat selector there are quite a few changes, by the looks of it! For example, 1N03 now appears to be a 9-car. Going to have a closer look and try to work out what's happening with the Newcastles.

 

[Bald Rick]

ETCS signalling between Welwyn and Hitchin is expected to be commissioned in 2026 which should deliver some capacity and performance improvements.

ETCS won’t given any capacity benefit that is usable there. And no perfromance benefit until signals away in 2028.

I suspect it's to determine the impact on performance, maybe the thinking is dwell times for set down calls will be less than those for "open" calls?

Presumably a trial period, of sufficient length to assess the medium term impact on performance and revenue.

 

[mm333]

The one train a week via Hambleton (Saturday Skipton-Kings Cross) will be going via Wakefield in future. Does that mean that LNER will stop signing that way? It's useful to send 800s that way if there's a problem between Doncaster and Leeds.

 

[ainsworth74]

I was there a couple years back and sadly that waiting room is in disrepair and blocked off (although you can see the old leaflets inside) and I can't imagine it's been repaired since then it can't be a priority.

Oh that's a shame

 

[Kite159]

The one train a week via Hambleton (Saturday Skipton-Kings Cross) will be going via Wakefield in future. Does that mean that LNER will stop signing that way? It's useful to send 800s that way if there's a problem between Doncaster and Leeds.

Most likely they will run some ECS services via Hambleton as a way to get to/from the depot at Doncaster at the extremes of the day.

----

As for the Chathill waiting room, I'm surprised it is still standing as it did look very run-down, no doubt to get replaced with one of those featureless perch style bus shelters.

 

[D1537]

Incidentally, "nearly all" the Newcastle daytime services will not be 5-car - half of them will be. The evening services (1N33/34) are 9-car.

9-car: 1N01/02/04/06/08/09/12/15/33/34
5-car: 1N00/03/05/07/10/11/13/14

There does appear to be a spare 801/1 5-car unaccounted for, though, so one of the 5-cars could be a 10 (or of course it could work one of the Leeds diagrams instead of a 5).

OK, so a look at the seat selector on a random weekday shows this - there is indeed a spare 5-car to strengthen a diagram, but there's also something I can't work out
9-car: 1N01/02/03/04/06/09/11/12/13/15/34
5-car: 1N00/05/08/10/14/33
10-car: 1N07

Apart from strengthening 1N07, two of the diagrams have switched from 5-car to 9-car (1N03/1N11, and 1N13), and one has switched from 9-car to 5-car (1N08/1N33)

So I can only assume that since every other diagram (apart from those that include Lincoln/York semi-fast/Middlesboro/Hull turns and one 5-car turn which stays on the West Yorkshire route) involves Edinburgh and is a 9-car (or in one case a 10-car), Hitachi must be allowing a slightly greater usage of 9-cars by at least one set in this timetable.

 

[Class 466]

OK, so a look at the seat selector on a random weekday shows this - there is indeed a spare 5-car to strengthen a diagram, but there's also something I can't work out
9-car: 1N01/02/03/04/06/09/11/12/13/34
5-car: 1N00/05/08/10/14/15/33
10-car: 1N07

Apart from strengthening 1N07, two of the diagrams have switched from 5-car to 9-car (1N03/1N11, and 1N13), and one has switched from 9-car to 5-car (1N08/1N33)

So I can only assume that since every other diagram (apart from those that include Lincoln/York semi-fast/Middlesboro/Hull turns and one 5-car turn which stays on the West Yorkshire route) involves Edinburgh and is a 9-car, Hitachi must be allowing a slightly greater usage of 9-cars by at least one set in this timetable.

I presume they had to agree something to cater for the ridiculous 81 minute turnarounds at Leeds

 

[55002]

looks like on a weekday, there’s

24 Bounds Green diagrams for 9 cars with a further 2 spare, 1 at BN, 1 at NL
10 Doncaster diagrams for 9 cars
16 Doncaster diagrams for 5 cars (4 diagrams combine to be 2 10 car sets all day) with a further 2 spare, 1 at BN and 1 at Doncaster
4 Neville Hill diagrams for 91s with 1 more spare at NL

some of the 5 car diagrams amalgamate for some services to form 10 cars

0640 Leeds to KGX one set does 0940 Leeds and other 0947 York
1803 KGX to Leeds formed from 1510 Ex Leeds and 1427 ex Newcastle

 

[Porty]

On an email from LNER today

Nerw Website launch. with detail of new timetable. ecmltimetable.info

Also LNER pdf timetable now available

Looking at all the timetables it seems that the Waverley to North Berwick line goes every half hour on Saturdays. Also, a very handy post 2200 departure from Waverley to North Berwick, Mon-Sat, filling the awkward 90 minute gap before the last train.

 

[55002]

Yes, that doesn't surprise me - that diagram is the obvious one to strengthen if you're choosing one of them. Alternatively they might have changed all of the diagrams around since the version I saw - which was admittedly in August.

Edit: OK, looking at the seat selector there are quite a few changes, by the looks of it! For example, 1N03 now appears to be a 9-car. Going to have a closer look and try to work out what's happening with the Newcastles

Newcastle 5 cars are
1N10 1533 ex KGX and 1Y21 1927 return
1N05 1033 ex KGX and 1Y16 1427 return
1N08 1333 ex KGX and 1Y19 1727 return
1N00 0808 ex Darlington and 1Y10 0927 to KGX


10 cars
1N07 1233 ex KGX and 1Y18 1627 return

 

[D1537]

looks like on a weekday, there’s

24 Bounds Green diagrams for 9 cars with a further 2 spare, 1 at BN, 1 at NL
10 Doncaster diagrams for 9 cars
16 Doncaster diagrams for 5 cars (4 diagrams combine to be 2 10 car sets all day) with a further 2 spare, 1 at BN and 1 at Doncaster
4 Neville Hill diagrams for 91s with 1 more spare at NL

Yes, agreed, 24 diagrams for 801/2s, 10 for 800/1s, and 16 for 5-cars with some swapping. One more 801/2 diagram than currently.

some of the 5 car diagrams amalgamate for some services to form 10 cars

0640 Leeds to KGX one set does 0940 Leeds and other 0947 York
1803 KGX to Leeds formed from 1510 Ex Leeds and 1427 ex Newcastle

1803 to Skipton, yes. The two 10-car sets out all day are 1D02/1A14/1N07/1Y18/1D32 as mentioned above, and the other one goes to Edinburgh (1A11/1S13/1E23).

 

[bramling]

ETCS won’t given any capacity benefit that is usable there. And no perfromance benefit until signals away in 2028.



Presumably a trial period, of sufficient length to assess the medium term impact on performance and revenue.

I reckon it will create more problems than it solves. I remember when this was the case in the 90s, and in the southbound direction it was a well known thing that people would get on the Intercity trains going to London. There may be more success keeping people off northbound trains leaving London.

We’ll probably read all about it in the disputes section of the forum in due course…

 

[Starmill]

By making the trains set down only, all that is likely to happen is LNER will lose their share of revenue. It's just not realistic to stop people boarding when it's the same pair of adjacent platforms for all departures. Nearly everyone on those platforms is going to London and will just board whatever shows up first...

The Stevenage station staff have 101 things to worry about, they certainly aren't likely to be worried about attempting to enforce some new rules sent down by LNER.

In the other direction it's different, but also more of a problem, because LNER carry a significant amount of PM peak traffic, especially midweek, back to Stevenage. Also at present the Hitachi screens always seem to show unadvertised departures on the side of the train.

 

[43074]

Newcastle 5 cars are
1N10 1533 ex KGX and 1Y21 1927 return
1N05 1033 ex KGX and 1Y16 1427 return
1N08 1333 ex KGX and 1Y19 1727 return
1N00 0808 ex Darlington and 1Y10 0927 to KGX


10 cars
1N07 1233 ex KGX and 1Y18 1627 return

Would be an interesting exercise to work out how many extra seats per hour are actually being provided by LNER to/from Kings Cross in the December timetable, as most of the York/Lincoln services will be 5-car sets, as well as at least some Newcastle and West Yorkshire services.

Plus there is some capacity lost by reducing the 225s from 9-cars to 7-cars (although I understand the trade off with more sprightly sectional running times) so it feels like the capacity uplift is spread quite thinly, but producing an impressive sounding headline figure?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

ETCS won’t given any capacity benefit that is usable there. And no perfromance benefit until signals away in 2028.

Should improve performance through the section though as a couple of signals have delayed sighting due to tunnels so when a train has run off the slows with on the fast behind it opens up a gap. ETCS will give the drivers earlier indication of how far they can proceed. Mind you if its a Up 9S/9J they are following they come down to a virtual stand before crossing over into the platform at Finsbury Pk.

 

[John R]

The problem is more of an issue for departures from London stations, as you don’t want passengers to Stevenage filling up a train to the point that longer distance passengers can’t get a seat, or even in extreme circumstances board. (See also Reading on a Penzance bound train.)

Inbound to London, longer distance passengers will already be on board and seated, so the worst that happens is the train gets full of standing passengers for the last 20 mins of its journey.

 

[bramling]

By making the trains set down only, all that is likely to happen is LNER will lose their share of revenue. It's just not realistic to stop people boarding when it's the same pair of adjacent platforms for all departures. Nearly everyone on those platforms is going to London and will just board whatever shows up first...

The Stevenage station staff have 101 things to worry about, they certainly aren't likely to be worried about attempting to enforce some new rules sent down by LNER.

In the other direction it's different, but also more of a problem, because LNER carry a significant amount of PM peak traffic, especially midweek, back to Stevenage. Also at present the Hitachi screens always seem to show unadvertised departures on the side of the train.

It will be interesting to see what extent LNER staff attempt to enforce it. I suspect some will, either by trying to prevent people boarding, or by doing ticket checks between Stevenage and London. I can envisage a few arguments.

 

[Starmill]

The problem is more of an issue for departures from London stations, as you don’t want passengers to Stevenage filling up a train to the point that longer distance passengers can’t get a seat, or even in extreme circumstances board. (See also Reading on a Penzance bound train.)

Inbound to London, longer distance passengers will already be on board and seated, so the worst that happens is the train gets full of standing passengers for the last 20 mins of its journey.

Indeed. It's simply fuss for its own sake, no different to people who buy first class tickets and get their first class seat, but then moan if other people take up other seats whom they suspect don't hold first class tickets. There isn't a material disadvantage to you in that situation. Going from London is the other way around.

 

[43094]

There are indeed 24 9-car electric units in use from the new timetable, with 2 spare each day.

However, that doesn't require Hitachi agreement as such - it's within the fleet quota that LNER have available to them each day.

 

[ivorytoast28]

By making the trains set down only, all that is likely to happen is LNER will lose their share of revenue. It's just not realistic to stop people boarding when it's the same pair of adjacent platforms for all departures. Nearly everyone on those platforms is going to London and will just board whatever shows up first...

It's especially surprising given that LNER only Stevenage to London and vice versa singles are currently cheaper than any permitted (plus they sell advances) so their policy is currently to encourage those just taking a single onto their services over Thameslink

 

[Starmill]

It's especially surprising given that LNER only Stevenage to London and vice versa singles are currently cheaper than any permitted (plus they sell advances) so their policy is currently to encourage those just taking a single onto their services over Thameslink

Indeed. LNER has been the cheapest option for nearly all times of day when they run for many, many years. Accordingly many people are accustomed to their use, not surprisingly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. It's simply fuss for its own sake, no different to people who buy first class tickets and get their first class seat, but then moan if other people take up other seats whom they suspect don't hold first class tickets. There isn't a material disadvantage to you in that situation. Going from London is the other way around.

I think to be fair Roger Ford has made the point on quality of InterCity journeys before (mostly as the reason he seems to support the fare increase trial and/or compulsory reservations, but it also logically extends to this). It isn't nice when you can't pack your bag at your leisure and pop to the loo before alighting because a load of commuters have crammed on at Stevenage, particularly on a 5 car.

Interestingly in Germany where there normally is segregation you usually can actually buy a ticket for the intercity train for the commuter journey, it's just priced right up to discourage it rather than being in the local tariff.

 

[Hadders]

I caught the 18:12 GTR train from Kings Cross to Stevenage this evening. It was an 8-car 700 and left KGX with standing passengers.
Based on previous experience the 18:33 LNER would leave with some standing in the vestibules (buit not in the aisles) until SVG
The 18:42 GTR from KGX to SVG would leave with standing passengers

The GTR trains will become much fuller if LNER aren't taking passengers between KGX and SVG. They will potentially need strengthening to 12-cars.

There are GTR services from St Pancras - these are already businer than the services from KGX.

When GTR fall over (as they've done twice in the last month) then LNER will need to take passengers between KGX and SVG.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When GTR fall over (as they've done twice in the last month) then LNER will need to take passengers between KGX and SVG.

It will be interesting to see if they do. Avanti (and Virgin and InterCity West Coast before them) basically never do/did. The only case I can ever recall of passengers being allowed to travel on an InterCity train between Euston and Watford Junction, bar if they sneaked on, in recent history, was when an incident of some kind (forget what it was, think it was a late night freight derailment on Bletchley South Junction which blocked all 4 tracks) stranded a couple of 321s and a couple of Pendolinos south of Bletchley, and all of these were used to run an all-stations shuttle service from Euston to Tring for buses north for a day or two while the mess was cleaned up.

 

[Hadders]

It will be interesting to see if they do. Avanti (and Virgin and InterCity West Coast before them) basically never do/did. The only case I can ever recall of passengers being allowed to travel on an InterCity train between Euston and Watford Junction, bar if they sneaked on, in recent history, was when an incident of some kind (forget what it was, think it was a late night freight derailment on Bletchley South Junction which blocked all 4 tracks) stranded a couple of 321s and a couple of Pendolinos south of Bletchley, and all of these were used to run an all-stations shuttle service from Euston to Tring for buses north for a day or two while the mess was cleaned up.

I don't think LNER will have a choice!

I remember an incident a few years back where there was major disruption. A LNER train got announced as 1st stop Stevenage and it became very busy. By the time it left it was like a tube train - proper crush loaded both in 1st and standard. The Train Manager was getting very agitated demanding that people vacate 1st class. It simply wasn't going to happen, so as we left the TM announced that 1st class service would be suspended until Stevenage.

I dread to think how many people got off at Stevenage but there were loads. The train was still full and standing when it left Stevenage!

To be fair this was very much the exception.