December 2025 East Coast Timetable

[30907]

There will be others, but I regularly get the 1645 out of Leeds (currently a 91), which is always close to full on leaving Leeds but becomes a 5 car going forward.

And out of Wakefield too?

 

[Hadders]

St Pancras low level does have phone signal on EE and it's extremely fast. I assume EE funded it themselves as otherwise other networks would surely be using it by now (it's been covered for some time, including the HS1 tunnels).

There's no o2 signal down there. All the networks really should have coverage down there.

With contactless being extended to Stevenage, has this got something to do with the changes perhaps?

I don't believe so. It's been mentioned on here that LNER has been involved in Oval discussions. LNER will lose their Stevenage revenue as a result of this, GTR will gain.

 

[John R]

LNER will lose their Stevenage revenue as a result of this, GTR will gain.

That seems fair enough. Of more interest is what will be done to police it at KX and Stevenage.

 

[Hadders]

Of more interest is what will be done to police it at KX and Stevenage.

Well quite. I simply cannot see how it can be enforced, especially at Stevenage.

If there’s disruption on Thameslink, which is a pretty frequent occurrence, then people aren’t going to stand on the platform, see a LNER train stop, open its doors and let it go. They’re going to get on it.

 

[jon0844]

There's no o2 signal down there. All the networks really should have coverage down there.

Yes. If you look at the tube, a company does the installation for all networks to then attach to. For some reason, there are parts of the railway where EE did its own thing. I think it's the same with the Northern City Line. EE covers it, so you can use Wi-Fi on the 717s in the tunnels, but I don't think other networks do. This is probably worth another thread though.

 

[philjo]

Well quite. I simply cannot see how it can be enforced, especially at Stevenage.

If there’s disruption on Thameslink, which is a pretty frequent occurrence, then people aren’t going to stand on the platform, see a LNER train stop, open its doors and let it go. They’re going to get on it.

Especially as the Harrogate to Kings Cross and the Cambridge to Brighton services are due to call at Stevenage 1 minute apart and the Newcastle to Kings Cross service is calling about 5 minutes later.

I find people at Stevenage tend to get on the first fast service that turns up.

 

[Judith hambly]

And no guard going to try and find u to grip u unless they really are desperate.

 

[jon0844]

Well quite. I simply cannot see how it can be enforced, especially at Stevenage.

If there’s disruption on Thameslink, which is a pretty frequent occurrence, then people aren’t going to stand on the platform, see a LNER train stop, open its doors and let it go. They’re going to get on it.

I guess it doesn't need to be enforced onboard. Just do what GWR did by occasionally announcing on trains from London that it won't be calling at Stevenage (Reading), and not worry too much about trains to London as everybody onboard either has a seat or never had one in the first place.

You could potentially do a block at King's Cross occasionally.

 

[IanXC]

It has been observed on another website that the biggest loser will actually be Nottinghamshire. The two ECML stations in that county are Newark and Retford. The complete weekday timetable between those two stations from December will be
Newark 0710
Retford 0725
(LNER service to Aberdeen)

Retford 0548 0649 0810 2155
Newark 0604 0705 0825 2213

(all LNER Leeds services except the 0810 which is Hull Trains)

Hull Trains do not have rights to call at Newark.

All the mentioned trains are LNER.

 

[soccermad]

On an email from LNER today

Nerw Website launch. with detail of new timetable. ecmltimetable.info

Also LNER pdf timetable now available

 

[Bletchleyite]

I note it is surprisingly quiet on the Newark issue...

It also seems to imply that the LNER pick up/set down thing might be temporary - so is it more about crowding out the 5 cars and potentially reviewed when the CAFs arrive?

 

[A S Leib]

How likely is it that the change to leaving Newcastle at 17:14 rather than ~18:00 will reduce demand for Chathill et al. even further? If finishing work in the city centre at five, that's not going to be enough time to comfortably get it (as well as having a 25 minute turnaround from the preceding Morpeth service, so hoping its departure is delayed probably wouldn't help).

 

[Killingworth]

How likely is it that the change to leaving Newcastle at 17:14 rather than ~18:00 will reduce demand for Chathill et al. even further? If finishing work in the city centre at five, that's not going to be enough time to comfortably get it (as well as having a 25 minute turnaround from the preceding Morpeth service, so hoping its departure is delayed probably wouldn't help).

That commuting train north might still work at about 17.30/45 but even Manors at 17.16 won't help those in the city centre who aren't working flexible hours.

 

[Robski]

Interesting addition to the ECML timetable website (interesting bit underlined):

From December 2025 until at least December 2026, LNER services that call at Stevenage will operate as follows:

• Northbound: pick-up only (no alighting at Stevenage)
• Southbound: set-down only (no boarding at Stevenage)

East Coast Main Line December 2025 Timetable

East Coast Main Line December 2025 Timetable

ecmltimetable.info

 

[bramling]

Interesting addition to the ECML timetable website (interesting bit underlined):

East Coast Main Line December 2025 Timetable

East Coast Main Line December 2025 Timetable

ecmltimetable.info

What’s the significance of December 2026? More capacity than when the new fleet arrives? Predictably, this has already generated some discontent in Stevenage. LNER is a popular way of getting between Stevenage and London, especially with GTR being so prone to problems.

 

[Class 466]

What’s the significance of December 2026? More capacity than when the new fleet arrives? Predictably, this has already generated some discontent in Stevenage. LNER is a popular way of getting between Stevenage and London, especially with GTR being so prone to problems.

No Chance of a Dec 2026 introduction for those Tri-mode CAF units - Based on their other fleets you'll be luck to see one this side of 2030

 

[Bletchleyite]

What’s the significance of December 2026? More capacity than when the new fleet arrives?

I think it does sound about the earliest the CAF fleet could be introduced, which would mean a return to 9/10 cars on most trains. If lots of the Leeds services and nearly all the Newcastle ones will be 5-car, and it is these ones that call at Stevenage, then there is a lot of sense in not letting commuters crowd them out - this very reason was why the Chester/North Wales services traditionally had u/s on them at Milton Keynes Central and the Pendolino operated Manchester and Birmingham services did not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That commuting train north might still work at about 17.30/45 but even Manors at 17.16 won't help those in the city centre who aren't working flexible hours.

Also no use for people who work until 5:30, as lots do, including a large number of retail workers.

1800ish is about the right time for it (certainly no earlier than 1745) if you're only going to have one. This is all a bit Donovan Quick...wonder will someone appear from nowhere to set up a bus company for them?

(For the uninitiated this was a quite enjoyable "David vs Goliath" TV movie in which an organisation called "Windmill Transport", clearly intended to represent FirstGroup, took over a local rail service and changed the timetable to be useless, and a random character appeared out of nowhere to set up a competing bus service which was subject to very dirty competition from the big boys - if you can find it anywhere it's well worth a watch!)

 

[ainsworth74]

How likely is it that the change to leaving Newcastle at 17:14 rather than ~18:00 will reduce demand for Chathill et al. even further? If finishing work in the city centre at five, that's not going to be enough time to comfortably get it (as well as having a 25 minute turnaround from the preceding Morpeth service, so hoping its departure is delayed probably wouldn't help).

Yes bit a of a sacfirice but the real losers are the smaller stations really. Alnmouth still has a service at 1740 from Newcastle (arr 1805), whilst Cramlington and Morpeth have one at 1747 (arr 1800 and 1809). So it's Pegswood, Widdrington, Acklington and Chathill that lose out really. Makes sense though not to build the timetable around those as between them they only produced around 5,500 passengers in 2023/24 combined. By comparison Alnmouth was 0.35m and Morpeth 0.52m.

Looks to me as though priority has been given to those station that are the major drivers of commuter traffic (by giving them well timed services) but the smaller ones have had to lose out.

 

[D1537]

If lots of the Leeds services and nearly all the Newcastle ones will be 5-car, and it is these ones that call at Stevenage, then there is a lot of sense in not letting commuters crowd them out - this very reason was why the Chester/North Wales services traditionally had u/s on them at Milton Keynes Central and the Pendolino operated Manchester and Birmingham services did not.

There are only 3 up LNER trains that call at Stevenage before 8.30am, and none are more than 7 coaches, so I can understand LNER's issue.
0704 (0500 ex Leeds, 225 set)
0750 (0609 ex York, 5-car bimode)
0803 (0605 ex Leeds, 225 set)

Incidentally, "nearly all" the Newcastle daytime services will not be 5-car - half of them will be. The evening services (1N33/34) are 9-car.

9-car: 1N01/02/04/06/08/09/12/15
5-car: 1N00/03/05/07/10/11/13/14

There does appear to be a spare 801/1 5-car unaccounted for, though, so one of the 5-cars could be a 10 (or of course it could work one of the Leeds diagrams instead of a 5).

 

[Robski]

What’s the significance of December 2026? More capacity than when the new fleet arrives?

ETCS signalling between Welwyn and Hitchin is expected to be commissioned in 2026 which should deliver some capacity and performance improvements. Alternatively it could be part of an understanding to review the changes to determine the impact of the restrictions on performance, or it could be the expected timeframe for LNER to roll out contactless card inspection devices.

Also of note, New Barnet calls have been dropped on Letchworth services in the evening peak.

 

[takno]

How likely is it that the change to leaving Newcastle at 17:14 rather than ~18:00 will reduce demand for Chathill et al. even further? If finishing work in the city centre at five, that's not going to be enough time to comfortably get it (as well as having a 25 minute turnaround from the preceding Morpeth service, so hoping its departure is delayed probably wouldn't help).

It's an interesting question. A lot depends on how many people are actually in jobs that finish at 5. I'm not in Newcastle, so I can't judge the local market, but most people I know on flexible hours tend to finish at 4-4:30. As an employer we used to have a fairly hard stop on meetings at 3 so that people could flex around school runs, so leaving before 5 was a non-issue. Working non-flexible hours in finance I used to finish the second the markets closed at 4.30. Shops tend to stay open until 5.30 or 6. Ancillary staff like cleaners and security don't get to leave until well after 5 anyway.

I don't doubt there are people who will be inconvenienced by it, but I suspect there will be more people who can either easily work around it, or will actually find it slightly more convenient.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's an interesting question. A lot depends on how many people are actually in jobs that finish at 5.

A lot of office work finishes around 5-5:30, though generally there would be some flex along the lines of "you can go at 4:30 if you come in at 8" - does the morning time allow for that?

Time critical stuff like call centres tend to be more shift based and unlikely to fit the 9-5ish pattern, while retail now is a bit more random than the classic "shut the shop at 5 and be off home by half past once you've cashed up".

 

[Farigiraf]

How likely is it that the change to leaving Newcastle at 17:14 rather than ~18:00 will reduce demand for Chathill et al. even further? If finishing work in the city centre at five, that's not going to be enough time to comfortably get it (as well as having a 25 minute turnaround from the preceding Morpeth service, so hoping its departure is delayed probably wouldn't help).

The southbound evening service from Chathill is timed to wait to be overtaken at Alnmouth by an LNER, making it 16 minutes slower than it currently is. On the plus side that LNER stops at Alnmouth so you can change there for a 20 minute quicker journey southbound.

Additionally the turnaround time at Chathill has gone up from 19 minutes to 44 minutes - not great for the users of Chathill station who will probably be 75% rail enthusiasts who take the train back to Newcastle afterwards. Any ideas of what to do in Chathill for three quarters of an hour at 6.30pm?

 

[ainsworth74]

Any ideas of what to do in Chathill for three quarters of an hour at 6.30pm?

It doesn't take three quarters of an hour but there was a nice little historical display in the southbound waiting room when I did it maybe a decade ago!

 

[D1537]

Any ideas of what to do in Chathill for three quarters of an hour at 6.30pm?

If you've got a bike with you, you could cycle to the pub in Ellingham, probably take you 5 mins or so. If you haven't ... er, yeah.

 

[Killingworth]

The southbound evening service from Chathill is timed to wait to be overtaken at Alnmouth by an LNER, making it 16 minutes slower than it currently is. On the plus side that LNER stops at Alnmouth so you can change there for a 20 minute quicker journey southbound.

Additionally the turnaround time at Chathill has gone up from 19 minutes to 44 minutes - not great for the users of Chathill station who will probably be 75% rail enthusiasts who take the train back to Newcastle afterwards. Any ideas of what to do in Chathill for three quarters of an hour at 6.30pm?

Walk to Seahouses and stay the night!

 

[ivorytoast28]

Not sure if it's due to the train coming from Harrogate so potentially busier or if true for other services but the advances on the 07:47 southbound from Doncaster to Stevenage are about 30% higher from the week of new timetable than the week before for my Wednesday morning commute - I'd forgotten about the timetable change so this was the first thing I noticed when booking ahead for each week

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2025 ==

Additionally the turnaround time at Chathill has gone up from 19 minutes to 44 minutes - not great for the users of Chathill station who will probably be 75% rail enthusiasts who take the train back to Newcastle afterwards. Any ideas of what to do in Chathill for three quarters of an hour at 6.30pm?

To be fair 44 mins sounds about right even if it is isolated, the one time I did it, it all felt a bit rushed, would have liked to wander around for a bit more

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not sure if it's due to the train coming from Harrogate so potentially busier or if true for other services but the advances on the 07:47 southbound from Doncaster to Stevenage are about 30% higher from the week of new timetable than the week before for my Wednesday morning commute - I'd forgotten about the timetable change so this was the first thing I noticed when booking ahead for each week

Might be that that one's a 5 car? I expect there will be some heavy pricing off from those services.

 

[ivorytoast28]

Might be that that one's a 5 car? I expect there will be some heavy pricing off from those services.

Oh no, it's already a busy morning service on a 225, would be awfully crammed if moved to a 5 car azuma