December 2025 East Coast Timetable

[Bald Rick]

This is one element of the new timetable I’m really not keen on. Essentially this is a downgrade to 5-car trains. We’ve already seen it with the Lincoln trains, now for the York trains too. That’s another 5-car path out of King’s Cross not making full use of the capacity available.

The York trains have many fewer calls though in the new timetable - just Peterborough, Retford, Doncaster and York. Can’t see them being full even with 5 cars.

 

[D1537]

All (or at least most) will be extended to Middlesbrough too if all goes to plan in Dec 2027 , probs another reason they are all 5 car now to make that transition ad simple as possible

Are there even enough 800/2s to cover those services as well as Hull, Lincoln and the Harrogate services that aren't 800/1s? It looks like the December 25 timetable (without the MBR extensions) has at least seven 800/2 diagrams in it, and there are only 10 units.

 

[800001]

They are showing cancelled…

What date are you looking at? As everyday I look at the 1N09 1433 Kings Cross to Newcastle and its return are showing, and that is the one that was **planned** to be a 91, and shows as electric locomotive and training load, it does not show as cancelled.

These 2 are two of the ones I've been advised **may/will not** be running for the first few weeks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2025 ==

Are there even enough 800/2s to cover those services as well as Hull, Lincoln and the Harrogate services that aren't 800/1s? It looks like the December 25 timetable (without the MBR extensions) has at least seven 800/2 diagrams in it, and there are only 10 units.

The CAF 897 units were due in 2027 I believe. Some of these will filter onto some bimode services.

 

[Riverside Redz]

Are there even enough 800/2s to cover those services as well as Hull, Lincoln and the Harrogate services that aren't 800/1s? It looks like the December 25 timetable (without the MBR extensions) has at least seven 800/2 diagrams in it, and there are only 10 units.

May need the CAF’s in service potentially. Reckon any will be in by end of 2027 ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2025 ==

What date are you looking at? As everyday I look at the 1N09 1433 Kings Cross to Newcastle and its return are showing, and that is the one that was **planned** to be a 91, and shows as electric locomotive and training load, it does not show as cancelled.

These 2 are two of the ones I've been advised **may/will not** be running for the first few weeks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2025 ==


The CAF 897 units were due in 2027 I believe. Some of these will filter onto some bimode services.

Ah you answered this already haha , thank you

 

[800001]

May need the CAF’s in service potentially. Reckon any will be in by end of 2027 ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2025 ==


Ah you answered this already haha , thank you

And I don't think CAF will be ready 2027, heard they are running late

 

[louis97]

What date are you looking at? As everyday I look at the 1N09 1433 Kings Cross to Newcastle and its return are showing, and that is the one that was **planned** to be a 91, and shows as electric locomotive and training load, it does not show as cancelled.

These trains, along with others, are showing as unadvertised for the entire base timetable. This is why they have a blue background in the train list in detailed mode and don't appear in simple mode.

 

[D1537]

These trains, along with others, are showing as unadvertised for the entire base timetable. This is why they have a blue background in the train list in detailed mode and don't appear in simple mode.

You may want to look again at 1N09/1Y20 in the first week of the timetable.

Sunday 14/12 - 1N09/1Y20 advertised, booked for 80x
Mon 15/12 to Friday 19/12 - 1N09 advertised/1Y20 unadvertised, booked for a 225
Saturday 20/12 and Sunday 21/12 - 1N09/1Y20 advertised, booked for 80x
Monday 22/12 - both back to unadvertised

 

[louis97]

You may want to look again at 1N09/1Y20 in the first week of the timetable.

I'm referring to the base timetable (as I stated) not any variations which can vary week by week.

As for Weekends that isn't relevant as it isn't what 800001 was referring to.

 

[D1537]

I'm referring to the base timetable (as I stated) not any variations which can vary week by week.

As for Weekends that isn't relevant as it isn't what 800001 was referring to.

I was including the weekends for completeness, but was merely pointing out the variation to 1N09 in the first week, which is either interesting or a mistake.

 

[louis97]

but was merely pointing out the variation to 1N09 in the first week

Again? I have read the thread, but it is not relevant when referring to the base timetable.

I imagine we'll see the same amendments released week by week as the STP amendments are published.

 

[Bald Rick]

What date are you looking at? As everyday I look at the 1N09 1433 Kings Cross to Newcastle and its return are showing, and that is the one that was **planned** to be a 91, and shows as electric locomotive and training load, it does not show as cancelled.

These 2 are two of the ones I've been advised **may/will not** be running for the first few weeks.

We might be at crossed purposes.

Those Newcastle trains are running, but wont be 225s (regardless of their timing load)

 

[D1537]

We might be at crossed purposes.

Those Newcastle trains are running, but wont be 225s (regardless of their timing load)

Indeed. I suspect the real clue that 1N09/1Y20 will be 80x is in the existence (albeit STP) of a 5Y20 to Ferme Park and a 5N35 from Ferme Park (which leaves before 5Y20 arrives, so it's not just a platform vacating move).

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

Can anyone articulate the services that Morpeth are losing and gaining? I seen things in the local press but it lacked detail.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Can't quite out what's happening at Berwick. Seems that LNER are coming down to every other hour. XC hourly, so changing at Newcastle is needed to/from the Cross. But the timetable extract several pages back seems to have the XC's going through Berwick non-stop and no obvious TPEs.
Is this any better on what they consulted on in 2021, which of course was strongly opposed. Is there any upside to roughly halving the numbe of LNER's?

 

[Farigiraf]

Can't quite out what's happening at Berwick. Seems that LNER are coming down to every other hour. XC hourly, so changing at Newcastle is needed to/from the Cross. But the timetable extract several pages back seems to have the XC's going through Berwick non-stop and no obvious TPEs.
Is this any better on what they consulted on in 2021, which of course was strongly opposed. Is there any upside to roughly halving the numbe of LNER's?

TPE's Edinburgh to Newcastle will increase to 2-hourly from December, so Berwick will retain 2tph, just as 1tph XC, 0.5tph LNER and 0.5tph TPE rather than 1tph XC and 1tph LNER. Overall though it is a reduction in usefulness- half the amount of services to London, and no more TPE 'extras' as TPE will form part of the core service from Berwick rather than an extra 7tpd on top of the 2tph core service.

 

[hexagon789]

Can anyone articulate the services that Morpeth are losing and gaining? I seen things in the local process but it lacked detail.

LNER Calls reduce by 2, but the two presently terminating TPE services at Berwick-upon-Tweed now both go through to Newcastle and serve Morpeth.

Net calls seems similar.

Can't quite out what's happening at Berwick. Seems that LNER are coming down to every other hour. XC hourly, so changing at Newcastle is needed to/from the Cross. But the timetable extract several pages back seems to have the XC's going through Berwick non-stop and no obvious TPEs.
Is this any better on what they consulted on in 2021, which of course was strongly opposed. Is there any upside to roughly halving the numbe of LNER's?

Two-hourly calls by the LNER Edinburgh/London semi-fast most of the day, plus a few morning peak extras including a Berwick starter to London as now and hourly calls late evening 'til end of service.

8 TPE Edinburgh/Newcastle per day. (Vs 5 at present plus the 2 Edinburgh/Berwick only).

Regular hourly calls by the XC Edinburgh/Plymouth service.

 

[IanXC]

Northallerton to Edinburgh journeys, while no longer direct, will now be possible every hour with a change at Darlington (rather than 2-hourly direct). While the transfer at Newcastle is below the minimum interchange time, the transfer at Darlington is typically 5-6 minutes (just over the minimum of 5 minutes) and often the Newcastle LNER and the Edinburgh XC service arrive on the same platform 5 minutes apart making for an easy interchange.
In the other direction however, due to the LNER Edinburgh fast service now skipping Darlington, it's generally a 30 minute connection at Newcastle from a southbound LNER/XC onto the Northallerton service.
Overall, if you don't mind changing trains or taking XC, frequencies have improved (in one direction). However that's not a massive group of people compared to those who may stop taking the train due to the removed calls on LNER Edinburghs and TPE Newcastles.

Assuming that the Darlington minimum connection time is not amended following the opening of platforms 5 and 6.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2025 ==

Depends what you would do with that set in Leeds. As possibly it could be a Kings Cross crew, so would there be a Leeds driver to take set ecs to/from Neville Hill.

Ahem.

Different Driver Depot, Route and Traction cards

One of the most common questions asked on this forum is what do train crew at a particular depot sign. Given we have an excellent thread listing every depot for every TOC in the country, and we have staff representing most if not all TOCs as well, I've been attempting to collate a list of every...

www.railforums.co.uk

Kings Cross don't sign Harrogate anyway. Seems the problem is there is no through platform available.

 

[IslandLine101]

Just flicking through this it seems circa 50% of the Durham - London trains will only be 5 coaches? Utter madness.

In my fairly extensive experience over the last three years (once every two weeks ish to London) I could count on one hand the number of times that the train has only taken its timetabled 90 seconds of dwell at Durham. It's always 2-3 minutes dwell due to shear volume of passengers and luggage.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just flicking through this it seems circa 50% of the Durham - London trains will only be 5 coaches? Utter madness.

In my fairly extensive experience over the last three years (once every two weeks ish to London) I could count on one hand the number of times that the train has only taken its timetabled 90 seconds of dwell at Durham. It's always 2-3 minutes dwell due to shear volume of passengers and luggage.

Obviously these trains won't have a load of Edinburgh passengers on them, though. If they aren't full leaving Newcastle (and why would they be unless people are deliberately priced onto them - Newcastle passengers would use the fasts) they will have plenty of space at Durham.

 

[IslandLine101]

A fair point. We'll see what happens. Newcastle people need to be pushed onto the two Edinburgh services though, and not find a 'cheaper' option on the stoppers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A fair point. We'll see what happens. Newcastle people need to be pushed onto the two Edinburgh services though, and not find a 'cheaper' option on the stoppers.

LNER's fare increase trial does of course make it easier to price these up for Newcastle and down for Durham (though you can't stop people splitting to get around that to some extent). The York semifast is presently priced down simply because it has lots of spare capacity and the fast services don't - no reason to price down a 5-car.

 

[dk1]

What about the Norwich line? Maybe not as important but I often have travelled Edinburgh to Norwich and mostly it currently ends up with a 50 minute wait at Peterborough. Haven't checked from December but hopefully the connection is improved.

Yes it’s going to be far better for us using Norwich services. About time it went back to how it was pre-2011.

 

[Class 170101]

Yes it’s going to be far better for us using Norwich services. About time it went back to how it was pre-2011.

Not sure what you think the difference might be to be honest.

 

[dk1]

Not sure what you think the difference might be to be honest.

Connections at Peterborough particularly heading north.

 

[ainsworth74]

The ECML Timetable website has been updated with the final timetable, it also has some more details about the phased introduction of services:

East Coast Main Line December 2025 Timetable

East Coast Main Line December 2025 Timetable

ecmltimetable.info

CrossCountry​

CrossCountry will operate an amended timetable from Sunday, 14 December 2025 until Monday, 26 January 2026 on its services linking the South West, Reading and Birmingham through to Yorkshire, the North East and Scotland. This is because of Trans-Pennine Route Upgrade engineering work near Leeds.

• The hourly service between Plymouth / Bristol Temple Meads / Birmingham New Street and Scotland will be rerouted via Doncaster.
• The two-hourly Reading – Newcastle service will be rerouted via Wakefield Westgate, starting and terminating at Leeds.

Once the Transpennine Route Upgrade work east of Leeds is complete, CrossCountry will operate a normal service, notwithstanding amended timetable changes because of planned engineering work elsewhere on the network.
However, the 14:28 Birmingham New Street to Newcastle and 18:33 Newcastle to Birmingham New Street will be phased into the timetable in Spring 2026.

Govia Thameslink Railway​

For Thameslink and Great Northern customers, this means that:

• A 08:45 from Letchworth to London King’s Cross and a 16:54 service from London King’s Cross to Cambridge are expected to be introduced early next year. The date of their introduction will be confirmed in 2026.
• The 16:27 London King’s Cross to Letchworth will be extended to Cambridge until the 16:54 London King’s Cross to Cambridge is introduced to give similar arrival and departure times for stations north of Letchworth.

The deferral of these two services is designed to reduce the congestion on the Welwyn Viaduct at the busiest times, minimising the potential for conflict and knock-on delays with other services operating on the network.
The changes being introduced this December will deliver more peak time services will run between London King’s Cross, Letchworth and Cambridge than operate today, meaning more room on trains for customers on this route overall.

LNER​

Until Spring 2026, the following weekday services will be partly introduced:

• 19:25 Edinburgh to London King’s Cross will terminate at Doncaster

The following weekday services will be introduced from Spring 2026:

• 05:40 London King’s Cross to Leeds
• 05:30 Doncaster to London King’s Cross
• 21:33 London King’s Cross to Doncaster
• 14:40 London King’s Cross to Harrogate
• 18:33 Harrogate to London King’s Cross

During this period, weekends will be very similar.
Services will be introduced once we can review the timetable reliability and have received stakeholder feedback.

Northern​

A new hourly service between Leeds and Sheffield calling at Wakefield Westgate will operate on Saturday, 20 and Sunday, 21 December, followed by rollout of the service from Saturday, 27 December 2025.

 

[Class 466]

"Services will be introduced once we can review the timetable reliability and have received stakeholder feedback."

So essentially if the timetable is detrimental to reliability those LNER services might face the chop?

 

[OneOfThe48]

• Northbound trains calling at Stevenage will be pick up only, southbound trains calling at Stevenage will be set-down only. Passengers between Stevenage and London King’s Cross services shall use Thameslink and Great Northern services

LNER withdrawing its services from London - Stevenage journeys is confirmed but relatively hidden on the Stevenage specific page.

Can’t see it mentioned anywhere else, or any explanation for why they are doing it

 

[Kite159]

LNER withdrawing its services from London - Stevenage journeys is confirmed but relatively hidden on the Stevenage specific page.

Can’t see it mentioned anywhere else, or any explanation for why they are doing it

Probably so they can hike the cost of fares as I've found Stevenage to be a good splitting point on those trains scheduled to call there.

No doubt employing shouty people to create a hostile environment at Stevenage for when a LNER calls southbound, similar to what happens at Watford Junction with Avanti for how dare someone board a long distance train when Thameslink are having one of their usual meltdowns

 

[A S Leib]

No doubt employing shouty people to create a hostile environment at Stevenage for when a LNER calls southbound, similar to what happens at Watford Junction with Avanti for how dare someone board a long distance train when Thameslink are having one of their usual meltdowns

Or, as a much rarer case which I've had in the past, is not knowing if somebody can drive to Stevenage (or Hatfield) to pick them up and wanting to have the option to go via London without having to change to a Thameslink service instead.

 

[D1537]

The following weekday services will be introduced from Spring 2026:

• 14:40 London King’s Cross to Harrogate
• 18:33 Harrogate to London King’s Cross

So there's a final answer as to whether the 1433 KX-Newcastle and return is a 225 set - it isn't (yet) - it's the 800/1 which would otherwise have done the Harrogate diagram.

On the bright side, that's better than the 5-cars which seem to be diagrammed onto most of the Newcastle turns.