December 2024 timetable change

[dk1]

It’s called a “lie in”.

Or is it a “lay in” ? Im never sure.

 

[BJames]

i assume wait for the next train. How busy are these services on a Sunday morning?

I've used the 0724 before from Nottingham and it started to get pretty busy further on the journey.

However - the improved journey times on the 0821 mean you would arrive in London just 33 minutes after the 0724 used to get you in to London (10:15 rather than 09:42). This is a much more sensible journey length - I do recall the 0724 feeling like a particularly long journey.

The 0821 service retains its calls at Wellingborough, Bedford, Luton and Luton Airport Parkway so the sub 2-hour journey time is pretty good.

 

[miklcct]

i assume wait for the next train. How busy are these services on a Sunday morning?

I am thinking more about the intermediate Derby - Leicester - Bedford or Nottingham - Leicester - Bedford journeys. Are there many people relying on these two services to commute to work?

 

[-Colly405-]

Or is it a “lay in” ? Im never sure.

It's a "lie on" where I'm from

 

[dk1]

It's a "lie on" where I'm from

Are you telling the truth though?

 

[ajp999]

Whilst there are improved journey times this only applies to customers travelling through to London; anyone travelling to intermediate stations that were used to travelling on the first two southbound services of the day will find that they will arrive up to hour later (including at Luton Airport Parkway) rather than 30 minutes later for London travellers. Certainly the 0724 from Nottingham was well populated and often full and standing from Bedford onwards. Looking at last Sunday's allocations, the first two southbound services had a total of 15 coaches whilst the next two services which from December become the first southbound services had a total of 17 coaches. This means there is limited scope for strengthening and a net capacity loss of at least 12 coaches. Will be interesting to see how this loss in capacity will be managed. Seems to me that this is all about cost-cutting, driven by the DfT that has been dressed up as a service improvement.

 

[The exile]

Or is it a “lay in” ? Im never sure.

Depends on whether or not you are equipped for the production of eggs!

 

[JonathanH]

Seems to me that this is all about cost-cutting, driven by the DfT that has been dressed up as a service improvement.

Seems to be about engineering access. Cost cutting is a by-product.

 

[JCO1406]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but what changes have been made to the Greater Anglia timetable?

 

[dk1]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but what changes have been made to the Greater Anglia timetable?

Very few from what I understand. There is a possible shake up of local services from next May.

 

[Bald Rick]

There is a possible shake up of local services from next May.

There isn‘t. Only notable changes for May are prep for Beaulieu Park.

 

[dk1]

There isn‘t. Only notable changes for May are prep for Beaulieu Park.

Oh that’s a shame. I know one of the planning team was looking at it a few months ago.

 

[Bald Rick]

Oh that’s a shame. I know one of the planning team was looking at it a few months ago.

Might be the following May, I guess, as May 25 was sorted ages ago.

 

[dk1]

Might be the following May, I guess, as May 25 was sorted ages ago.

Possibly. I was told by a fairly reliable source several months back. Wonder if we’ll see any movement on the ECML next year allowing the WA changes to go ahead.

 

[TheBigD]

Very few from what I understand. There is a possible shake up of local services from next May.

Out of interest what changes were being planned for the local services?

The obvious one being making the Ipswich-Peterborough service hourly but that seems highly unlikely given the lack of progress around the Ely Area Capacity Enhancement.

 

[weeklycommuter]

AIUI the opening of Beaulieu Park Station and Cambridge South Station and the new East Coast Mainline timetable are all currently planned for December 2025 so I expect there will be changes to the Greater Anglia timetable in December 2025 for these.

Beaulieu Park Station - Network Rail

Network Rail and Essex County Council are working together to develop proposals for the first railway station to be built...

www.networkrail.co.uk

With a targeted opening date by the end of 2025, the new station will help to relieve pressure for the busy, Chelmsford station and help reduce car journeys into the city tackling congestion on local roads and reducing pollution.

Cambridge South station - Network Rail

The Department for Transport published a Strategic Outline Business Case in November 2017 for a new railway station in the south of Cambridge.

www.networkrail.co.uk

Government announces commitment to deliver a new train station in south Cambridge by 2025.

 

[dk1]

Out of interest what changes were being planned for the local services?

The obvious one being making the Ipswich-Peterborough service hourly but that seems highly unlikely given the lack of progress around the Ely Area Capacity Enhancement.

Yes any changes didn’t involve the Ipswich-Peterborough route to any extent. From what I was told it was to make slight improvements to journey times and some frequency enhancements brought about by more efficient use of the larger 755 fleet. There are several quite long layovers particularly at Norwich. Other routes are constrained by single line sections. Additional SX extensions to Stansted are very reliant on the ECML timetable change so where not included although additional Norwich-Cambridge services are being looked at. Refuelling which now takes place at Colchester also gives the opportunity to extend the odd Peterborough or Cambridge service rather than running ECS to/from Ipswich.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Whilst there are improved journey times this only applies to customers travelling through to London; anyone travelling to intermediate stations that were used to travelling on the first two southbound services of the day will find that they will arrive up to hour later (including at Luton Airport Parkway) rather than 30 minutes later for London travellers. Certainly the 0724 from Nottingham was well populated and often full and standing from Bedford onwards. Looking at last Sunday's allocations, the first two southbound services had a total of 15 coaches whilst the next two services which from December become the first southbound services had a total of 17 coaches. This means there is limited scope for strengthening and a net capacity loss of at least 12 coaches. Will be interesting to see how this loss in capacity will be managed. Seems to me that this is all about cost-cutting, driven by the DfT that has been dressed up as a service improvement.

No it isn't. It will be about getting improved engineering access times for Network Rail. That's why those first two trains will have been taken out, as there will no be a section 4 possession opportunity preventing them from running I am assuming.

As a trade off for engineering access, the 2 track timetable is improved and does not last as long so EMR get faster journeys into London.

 

[BenBracken]

I see TfW took part in all the public consultations about cuts to HoWL services and still went ahead anyway. Is the 4tpd just for the winter timetable and will it go back to 5 in June? Or is that a permanent change now?

 

[cactustwirly]

Or from a more positive point of view you could argue the fact there are 3 coaches departing Leicester for London before 0730 on a Sunday morning illustrates there is probably a market to be served by earlier Sunday morning services if the railway provided them.

That said, faster journey times on Sunday morning are very welcome though.

What are the time savings? I can see they're still stopping trains south of Leicester with slow journey times

 

[Nottingham59]

What are the time savings? I can see they're still stopping trains south of Leicester with slow journey times

The 0650h Flixbus on a Sunday morning from Fosse Park takes 1h 50m, arriving Finchley Road 0850h. Another 30 minutes to Victoria Coach station. Interestingly, the 0315h Flixbus to London next Sunday is nearly fully booked.

 

[ajp999]

What are the time savings? I can see they're still stopping trains south of Leicester with slow journey times

Between nine and 28 minutes spread across six southbound and six northbound services. Previously I believe some of these services were timed to run on the slow lines between Bedford and London and now appear to be timed for the fast lines. In addition there were a number of pathing allowances that appear to have been removed. It was not uncommon for southbound services to arrive into London up to 15 minutes early depending on whether the fast / slow lines were closed, and whether Thameslink services were being diverted into St Pancras High Level. In essence southbound, only customers travelling all the way to London will see the time savings; anyone making intermediate journeys up to Luton will only see limited benefits.

 

[Bikeman78]

The first arrival at St. Pancras from Leicester this Sunday is the 09:16 from Derby (then an 09:42 from East Midlands Parkway, I'm guessing normally from Nottingham); first arrivals on 9th February (first Sunday which doesn't seem to have engineering works) are 09:50 from Derby and 10:15 from Nottingham.

Moving away from the Southern region was an eye opener for me. First train up on Sunday morning was 0605 to Gatwick, for the 0635 Gatwick Express into Victoria at 0710.

 

[dannypye9999]

Any extra trains planned for the Manchester to Sheffield route in December? All that upgrading work and yet still nothing.

 

[A S Leib]

Moving away from the Southern region was an eye opener for me. First train up on Sunday morning was 0605 to Gatwick, for the 0635 Gatwick Express into Victoria at 0710.

The 07:10 (06:39 from Milton Keynes) is the first Euston service at Hemel on Sundays.

Newcastle has a very generous pre-08:00 Sunday provision to York (07:49 TPE to Leeds, 07:55 LNER to London, 07:59 TPE to Liverpool) and 07:57's in the timetable as the first Sunday departure to Ashington. The 08:25 LNER gets to York early enough to connect with the first CrossCountry of the day to get to Sheffield by eleven, and most people going from Newcastle to Derby, Birmingham or southwest are probably going overnight. No Carlisle or Edinburgh services before 08:45 is slightly annoying though.

 

[LowLevel]

Any extra trains planned for the Manchester to Sheffield route in December? All that upgrading work and yet still nothing.

I do hope not, the general inability of the freight services on the route to keep to their schedules as it is means that would make things even worse! The amount of times going up hill that they leave Dore early and grind their way around the corner at Chinley late stuffing the job up is deeply tedious.

 

[Trainman40083]

Any extra trains planned for the Manchester to Sheffield route in December? All that upgrading work and yet still nothing.

I'd suggest the problem with that is lack of capacity at either end ..even if units were available to run them.

 

[A S Leib]

This might have been mentioned already, but the fast TPE services between Manchester Victoria and Leeds will almost be running as a metro service – leaving both ends at xx:00, xx:15, xx:30 and xx:45 – apart from the fact that the Newcastle service only calls at Huddersfield and the second intermediate stop for the Hull, Scarborough and Redcar / Saltburn services isn't the same one. That's also assuming that services will be on-time enough to leave consistent 15 minute gaps.

 

[3RDGEN]

Any extra trains planned for the Manchester to Sheffield route in December? All that upgrading work and yet still nothing.

No extra services but TPE are planning to run two extra six car diagrams on the route so a slight increase in capacity.

 

[Jamesrob637]

No extra services but TPE are planning to run two extra six car diagrams on the route so a slight increase in capacity.

Does that mean everything South TPE will now be booked 6-car?