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December 2024 timetable change

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Avenger20

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One slightly bizzare and negative change i've noticed is on the new line to Leven. From December the 2318 departure which currently runs to Edinburgh (arriving 0029) on weekdays will now only run to Edinburgh on Fridays. On Monday to Thursdays it will run to Kircaldy and tip out there before running ECS to Haymarket depot via Edinburgh.

The resultant effect is that on Monday to Thursdays passengers from the Leven Branch will have to change at Kircaldy onto the 2350 service from Perth which doesnt get into Edinburgh until 0103, a whole 34 minutes later whilst their train from Leven trundles down to Edinburgh empty. Now whilst there might not be a huge amount of travellers at that time it does seem to be a bizzare and very anti-passenger move, so rather disapointing.
This is due to electrification works taking place Sunday-Thursday. The service from Perth to Edinburgh (as well as a few others) will take the Winchburgh chord after Dalmeny and reverse at Linlithgow.

This is also the reason that 1S45/1B61 are truncated at Dundee during this timetable.
 
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devon_belle

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Interesting that the new Bognor–London Bridge (and back) services don't stop at Gatwick Airport. This and the Littlehampton–London Bridge are the only in-service passenger trains to skip Gatwick Airport, as far as I can tell.
 
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Because they are dedicated commuter trains for the City. There are alternatives for those seeking to travel to and from Gatwick during peak time.
 

OneOfThe48

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They may also be run with red ‘Gatwick Express’ Class 387 trains which could confuse customers at Gatwick.

I think that’s the reason why the Littlehampton - London Bridge via Hove trains don’t stop at Gatwick Airport either.
 

paul1609

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When was the last time a WTT service ran from Littlehampton to Arundel or vice versa? Before May 2018? I take it the objective is to provide Littlehampton with a second train to London Bridge, whilst also providing a service along the Arun Valley.
I'm trying to remember when it was finally withdrawn but for many years there was a Littlehampton to Arundel shuttle in the morning peak that connected to one of the peak arun valley trains. It then ran over the crossover to form a service to Chichester
via Littlehampton principly for kids going to the Chi Grammar schools. It was the last remains of the Arundel to Littlehampton shuttle that used to terminate in the down bay platform. I think that it just lasted in to Electrostar days so mid 200x?
 

cle

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There is no Portsmouth Harbour to London Bridge service
Side ask - but I remember the good old days of London Bridge to Eastbourne, Littlehampton, Bognor, everywhere else in the peaks - does anyone have any old timetables which show these peak extras?
 

infobleep

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Really can’t imagine that there is that much demand in that direction at that time of night. Sure it’s later than a lot of comparable places get
If that is the case, I'm surprised they even bothered in the first place. Unless it was simply they didn't know.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

This is due to electrification works taking place Sunday-Thursday. The service from Perth to Edinburgh (as well as a few others) will take the Winchburgh chord after Dalmeny and reverse at Linlithgow.

This is also the reason that 1S45/1B61 are truncated at Dundee during this timetable.
This makes sense now.

Could trains still have run in passenher service taking that route?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

They may also be run with red ‘Gatwick Express’ Class 387 trains which could confuse customers at Gatwick.

I think that’s the reason why the Littlehampton - London Bridge via Hove trains don’t stop at Gatwick Airport either.
I saw one last week at Hastings on an Ore to Brighton service. That must also confuse some passengers.
 
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Avenger20

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This makes sense now.

Could trains still have run in passenher service taking that route?

Absolutely and I'm not sure why this Leven service isn't.

1L96 2218 PTH EDB
1L36 2231 DEE EDB
5K86 2339 KDY XHA (2318 from Leven terminates at KDY, empties in and pax travel on 1L98)
2G54 2323 GLT EDB
1L98 2311 PTH EDB

All go via Winchburgh chord and reverse at Linlithgow
 

The exile

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If that is the case, I'm surprised they even bothered in the first place. Unless it was simply they didn't know.
There’ll be demand on the previous working in to Leven and the train has got to get back somehow. With tge diversions on, running ecs may mean it can use loops etc not signalled for use by passenger trains / sit somewhere for varying amounts of time on different days (subject to crew hours) which wouldn’t be ok if there were passengers on board.
 

infobleep

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There’ll be demand on the previous working in to Leven and the train has got to get back somehow. With tge diversions on, running ecs may mean it can use loops etc not signalled for use by passenger trains / sit somewhere for varying amounts of time on different days (subject to crew hours) which wouldn’t be ok if there were passengers on board.
Understood. I did wonder if the ECS service was using non-passenger lines.
 

Avenger20

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There’ll be demand on the previous working in to Leven and the train has got to get back somehow. With tge diversions on, running ecs may mean it can use loops etc not signalled for use by passenger trains / sit somewhere for varying amounts of time on different days (subject to crew hours) which wouldn’t be ok if there were passengers on board.
The empties from Kirkcaldy to Haymarket do not use any non passenger lines (there aren't actually any in that area). It traverses the same route as the preceeding and following trains which are in service.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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The empties from Kirkcaldy to Haymarket do not use any non passenger lines (there aren't actually any in that area). It traverses the same route as the preceeding and following trains which are in service.

Is it possibly that the booked guard is required elsewhere, or is possibly not based in Edinburgh for the duration of these amended workings?
 

Avenger20

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Is it possibly that the booked guard is required elsewhere, or is possibly not based in Edinburgh for the duration of these amended workings?
Potentially it could be a Leven or Perth Conductor, I've not seen any diagrams for December as yet but that would make the most sense to me.
 

physics34

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A couple of evening 2Txx London Bridge to Sutton services via FH have appeared in the TT from December, fast from west croydon to Sutton. It was thought the intention was to bring back the LBG to East Croydon /Coulsdon Town service via FH.
 

JonathanH

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A couple of evening 2Txx London Bridge to Sutton services via FH have appeared in the TT from December, fast from west croydon to Sutton. It was thought the intention was to bring back the LBG to East Croydon /Coulsdon Town service via FH.
The morning ones start at Norwood Junction off Selhurst Depot. Terminating at Norwood Junction southbound isn't so easy so they run on to Sutton to get them out of the way.

Coulsdon Town didn't run at peak time in the May 2018 timetable. The timings through East Croydon clash with the Peterborough to Horsham service now running on the slow side at East Croydon.

Does the Coulsdon Town service even fit in the timetable now that other trains have had their timings shifted? Slow line at Windmill Bridge Junction is 1737 East Grinstead, 1741 East Croydon from Tulse Hill, 1744 Horsham. That is where it would need to fit.
 
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infobleep

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A couple of evening 2Txx London Bridge to Sutton services via FH have appeared in the TT from December, fast from west croydon to Sutton. It was thought the intention was to bring back the LBG to East Croydon /Coulsdon Town service via FH.
Is that Forest Hill or a other station?
 

Southern

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Interesting that the new Bognor–London Bridge (and back) services don't stop at Gatwick Airport. This and the Littlehampton–London Bridge are the only in-service passenger trains to skip Gatwick Airport, as far as I can tell.

Also interesting is the 5 minute wait at East Croydon:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W35873/2024-12-19/deta

Looks like it runs behind an Uckfield - London Bridge service beyond Croydon and takes 18 minutes to do the journey into London Bridge, padding included...makes sense as Platform 14 is booked to be occupied until 0855 by the looks of it, with 1J92 getting in for 0858.
 

physics34

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The morning ones start at Norwood Junction off Selhurst Depot. Terminating at Norwood Junction southbound isn't so easy so they run on to Sutton to get them out of the way.

Coulsdon Town didn't run at peak time in the May 2018 timetable. The timings through East Croydon clash with the Peterborough to Horsham service now running on the slow side at East Croydon.

Does the Coulsdon Town service even fit in the timetable now that other trains have had their timings shifted? Slow line at Windmill Bridge Junction is 1737 East Grinstead, 1741 East Croydon from Tulse Hill, 1744 Horsham. That is where it would need to fit.
Good point. Forgot about the Coulsdon Towns not running during the peak. Did hear the '2Ts were returning' but just two LBGs to Suttons and those few as u say on the up that start at Norwood Junction AM isnt really pushing the boat out. Did expect more. There has been an ongoing need to give NXG to Anerley passengers a direct service to East Croydon again...
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Also interesting is the 5 minute wait at East Croydon:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W35873/2024-12-19/deta

Looks like it runs behind an Uckfield - London Bridge service beyond Croydon and takes 18 minutes to do the journey into London Bridge, padding included...makes sense as Platform 14 is booked to be occupied until 0855 by the looks of it, with 1J92 getting in for 0858.
18m running time to LBG is pretty slow as well so a lot of padding in this schedule all round
 

evergreenadam

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I think it will happen as there now is so mamy green initiatives that can happen without it, more freight by rail out of Felixstowe, more passengers going to be pushed to rail once again as the government is looking to raise money in the budget so motorists will be hit.

Forgetting the fact Ipswich to Cambridge and Peterborough needs more frequent services, there will come a point Norwich to Cambridge will want half hourly especially when east west rail opens.
And Greater Cambridge is a major growth area that needs infrastructure provision. So fits the narrative on getting more homes built.
 

bicbasher

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Southern are adding additional peak services on the Sydenham slow lines into London Bridge. This will see 2tph to London Bridge from Penge West and Anerley and 4tph between Sydenham & New Cross Gate. (The other 2tph is the existing Victoria to London Bridge).

The additional morning peaks from Norwood Junction are at 0733, 0803, 0833 and 0903.

There are two additional services from London Bridge in the evening peak at 1710 and 1740 to Sutton, these call at all stops to West Croydon then fast to Sutton.
 

Baji

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Southern are adding additional peak services on the Sydenham slow lines into London Bridge. This will see 2tph to London Bridge from Penge West and Anerley and 4tph between Sydenham & New Cross Gate. (The other 2tph is the existing Victoria to London Bridge).

The additional morning peaks from Norwood Junction are at 0733, 0803, 0833 and 0903.

There are two additional services from London Bridge in the evening peak at 1710 and 1740 to Sutton, these call at all stops to West Croydon then fast to Sutton.
My guessing is the additional norwood junction to London Bridge service will probably run with 6 coaches as arrive at London Bridge, they then get used for the Beckenham Junction service
 
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