December 2024 timetable change

[jammmmmsssssss]

I’ve heard of a possible regional re-write next May but this December shouldn’t show many if any surprises.

The current timetable works really well (except for a couple of freights near Thurston) so I don't see much point changing it completely

 

[Peter0124]

At the very least the seat coverings need to be replaced with a more durable material, if you've seen the state of some of them they're minging!

That and the fact that there are still consistent reliability issues, just today they've been a unit down and have cancelled/started and terminated short the Glasgow-Liverpool services.

The windows are filthy too, especially in comparison to 390s.

 

[Cowley]

Just to say, if anyone has ideas on what could be done then please start a new thread on it in the speculative section.

Thanks

 

[mangyiscute]

Looking at the TfW services from Machynlleth, it seems to include the T2 TrawsCymru bus services. Does that mean they are being integrated with the train services? So if I were to look up a service from Bangor to Shrewsbury, say, NR's journey planner might give me a route via Machynlleth? Unfortunately the bus services only seem to have been given a limited number of intermediate stopping points (Caernarfon, PenyGroes, Dolgellau, and Mach), so not including Criccieth or Porthmadog for example.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...9/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=AW

They've also added the T3 journeys, but without the stop at Ruabon station which is a super useful interchange and instead calling it at Wrexham General even tho it stops about 5-10 min walk away potentially causing connection time issues.

 

[Alvin_official]

Is it safe to say that dates between 24th december and 31st dec are just copy and pasted from the normal timetable for LNER?

 

[JonathanH]

Is it safe to say that dates between 24th december and 31st dec are just copy and pasted from the normal timetable for LNER?

Yes, they are likely to be adapted in due course. At least they haven't loaded up times for 25 / 26 December, but 24 December will wind down before the last services shown.

 

[Belperpete]

They've also added the T3 journeys, but without the stop at Ruabon station which is a super useful interchange and instead calling it at Wrexham General even tho it stops about 5-10 min walk away potentially causing connection time issues.

When there were RRBs on the Cambrian, traveline often gave me journeys via the T3 to Ruabon as the quickest way to Birmingham. However , I seem to recall that they wanted to reroute the T3 away from Ruabon station. Wonder if that might have something to do with it?

What is the point of adding these bus services into the rail timetable? Will rail journey planners be able to use them? If so, won't they need fare details?

 

[ChrisC]

EMR appears to feature the return of the missing Crewe/Newark services both on weekdays and weekends, perhaps as a precursor to the proposed extensions to Lincoln.

Missing Liverpool/Norwich trains are bizarrely still missing.

Good news that the missing Crewe/Newark services are returning.

I also don’t understand why the missing Liverpool/Norwich services are not returning. The missing train at around 0850 from Liverpool on a Saturday morning is at a peak time for Saturday morning leisure travel especially further along the route from Manchester and Sheffield. I‘ve been staying in Manchester for a few days and the missing train was just at the time I wanted to return home. Instead it resulted in an early breakfast and getting the 0839 from Manchester Oxford Road to Alfreton. I’m so pleased that I got on at Oxford Road as this morning it was only a single 158 and was absolutely rammed between Piccadilly and Sheffield. Not good when the next EMR train is not for another 2 hours.

 

[JGurney]

Saltburn gone down the 3 TPE departures a day toward York and only 2 back

Most ironically, I received an advertising email from TPE this morning with subject line "Find your happy place" and headed "Good times wherever you go" followed by an image of Saltburn beach and the text "But if you prefer seaside fun, swing by Saltburn. Families love its Italian gardens and miniature railway, and you can catch a wave at the beautiful beach."

No, Saltburn's future TPE service times are not good at all, and certainly not for families headed for the beach. They will do nothing to make it a happy place.

 

[childwallblues]

Good to see 2tph but I see all pretensions to this service being a regional express have been lost, as both make stops at three or more minor stations (what I would class as a minor station has been bolded).

Yes absolutely excellent the return of the 30 minute off peak service. Train 2 always stopped at Coseley pre Covid. Mossley Hill is interesting. Central Trains used to stop there prior to the opening of Liverpool South Parkway. At the time a large student population used to live in the student Halls of Residence at the top of the hill. These closed a few years ago and the students now live within the University complex.

 

[Kite159]

I wonder who had LNR calling at Mossley Hill on their bingo card for 2024?

Good to see Coseley regaining it's fast service for Birmingham rather than just the stoppers

 

[Vanmanyo]

I wonder who had LNR calling at Mossley Hill on their bingo card for 2024?

Good to see Coseley regaining it's fast service for Birmingham rather than just the stoppers

Yes that is unexpected! I assume it's merely to prop up the Northern services to Liverpool, seeing as Mossley hill is one of the busier stations on that line, with Edge Hill having similar passenger numbers but double the services to Liverpool currently. Like someone else said earlier, it does take out any fast service from Brum to Liverpool now.

WMR Snow Hill December services currently showing reductions in the off peak.

Kidderminster to Birmingham cut from 4 to 3 per hour, Kidderminster to Worcester cut from 2 to 1 per hour. Birmingham to Dorridge WMR services cut from 2 to 1 per hour, with the Dorridge to Stratford services gone, so Stratford to Birmingham down from 2 to 1 per hour.

Looking at RTT today, these reductions have been reinstated. Kidderminster is still at 4tph off peak and there is still 4tph to Birmimgham from Dorridge and Solihull with Chiltern and WMR services providing the every 15 minute service, so little change there. I wonder if they just hadn't been put on the system because that would've been a huge drop in service for no reason!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2024 ==

Also what changes have Chiltern made?

Looking at RTT today I can see little to no changes for Chiltern sadly on the weekday. Aylesbury still 1tph through the day and Birmingham to London is still not 2tph throughout the day. Maybe weekends have had some tweaks but I don't think it's anything big sadly!

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Looking at RTT today I can see little to no changes for Chiltern sadly on the weekday. Aylesbury still 1tph through the day and Birmingham to London is still not 2tph throughout the day. Maybe weekends have had some tweaks but I don't think it's anything big sadly!

I must admit, I’m not surprised, and neither would I have been surprised if there had been cuts.
Something could happen

 

[Vanmanyo]

I must admit, I’m not surprised, and neither would I have been surprised if there had been cuts.
Something could happen

Stourbridge surprisingly keeps its London services - I was semi-expecting them to cut them back but as the depot is in Stourbridge it makes sense to keep them! 68 diagrams are still on the system but nobody was expecting the 68 sets to leave this December anyway. There might be changes to the local services around Marylebone but I don't really know those services too well!

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Yep still poor with services from Kent to connect to Crossrail. Open goal for extra custom not being taken.

All London area TOCs south of the Thames seem like they don't want passenger numbers to grow, no doubt under DaFT pressure for cuts.

So so untrue.

 

[PGAT]

So so untrue.

Hear Hear, DfT controlled Southeastern have a much more recovered service than the other operators in the south. Even in this timetable change alone we have seen a pre-pandemic service on the Penge East line and more Cannon Street rounders being added to complement the Elizabeth Line while South Western Railway have had precisely nothing.

 

[mikestone1952]

Do we know why the Huddersfield-Leeds stopping service is to be split between Northern and TPE? TPE refer to a 61st track access application which I cannot find and the Northern application doesn't give a reason.

 

[Baji]

Mims Davies MP provides GTR meeting update on East Grinstead, Uckfield and Wivelsfield trains

Mims Davies MP provides GTR meeting update on East Grinstead, Uckfield and Wivelsfield trains. Mims Davies MP said:

www.mimsdavies.org.uk

Some minor changes for Southern have been confirmed by local MP Mims Davies, specifically the return of the 21:36 and 22:36 East Grinstead-Victoria trains (essentially extending half-hourly service from the end of the peaks to the end of service).
a 22:07 London Bridge-Uckfield train will also be added although unlike the East Grinstead trains won't have a return working associated with it it seems.

Realtime Trains | Departures from London Victoria between 0800 and 2200 on 12/12/2024

Train information at London Victoria between 0800 and 2200 on 12/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

They are not shown on realtimetrains

 

[Kite159]

with Edge Hill having similar passenger numbers but double the services to Liverpool currently

Ah yes Edge Hill, quite popular in terms of ticket sales, not in terms of actual passengers getting on/off the trains there

(AKA it's quite popular with those whom think full payment is strictly optional as means to bypass the barriers at Lime Street, although probably slightly less these days Northern don't run as many pairs of 3 coach 331s on Wigan/Liverpool services)

----

As for SWR, one potential reason why some services haven't been resolved is lack of staff. Better to have a cut back timetable which can be run than extra services which could be cancelled due to no driver/guard available [also probably rolling stock issues with the 701s]

 

[Galvanize]

Realtime Trains | Departures from London Victoria between 0800 and 2200 on 12/12/2024

Train information at London Victoria between 0800 and 2200 on 12/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

They are not shown on realtimetrains

That’s because the December timetable commences on Sunday 15th!

 

[hexagon789]

Realtime Trains | Departures from London Victoria between 0800 and 2200 on 12/12/2024

Train information at London Victoria between 0800 and 2200 on 12/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

They are not shown on realtimetrains

That’s because the December timetable commences on Sunday 15th!

And GTR services still haven't been uploaded yet either.

 

[Murray J]

Realtime Trains | Departures from London Victoria between 0800 and 2200 on 12/12/2024

Train information at London Victoria between 0800 and 2200 on 12/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

They are not shown on realtimetrains

That's presumably because you're looking on the wrong date and the timetable isn't out yet.

 

[CAF397]

Do we know why the Huddersfield-Leeds stopping service is to be split between Northern and TPE? TPE refer to a 61st track access application which I cannot find and the Northern application doesn't give a reason.

Because the service was due to transfer completely to Northern in December 2024 (the MD announced his intentions last year) but they either have insufficient units or crew, or a mixture of both. So the 2 diagrams required are split between Northern/TPE until at least May 2025.

The Piccadilly-Huddersfield stoppers are staying with TPE, extended every hour via Wakefield to York from December.

 

[htafc]

Because the service was due to transfer completely to Northern in December 2024 (the MD announced his intentions last year) but they either have insufficient units or crew, or a mixture of both. So the 2 diagrams required are split between Northern/TPE until at least May 2025.

The Piccadilly-Huddersfield stoppers are staying with TPE, extended every hour via Wakefield to York from December.

Will the Northern diagrams be 158s?

 

[Northern158170]

Will the Northern diagrams be 158s?

RTT seems to have them pathed as class 150s. I really hope that’s wrong

 

[hexagon789]

RTT seems to have them pathed as class 150s. I really hope that’s wrong

Well 150/153/156, so a 75mph Sprinter, but I note the TPE services are timed as 100mph DMU AND take 1 min longer!

 

[3RDGEN]

RTT seems to have them pathed as class 150s. I really hope that’s wrong

Believe it will be 150's, Northern are putting together a couple more 3 cars 150 sets so presumably it will be worked by them.

 

[Northern158170]

That’ll be quite the downgrade…

 

[Kite159]

That’ll be quite the downgrade…

Definitely there, going from a 3 coach 185 which the nice low density interiors with AC to 3 coach 150s with 3+2 seating and no AC.

Would probably be a good route for 195s due to their higher acceleration.

 

[Geeves]

I could be remembering totally wrong but when Northern last ran the Huddersfield half of the stopper it was 195s and I suspect it will be againj despite the timings.

Also in regards to 323s training for Vic drivers is now in full swing