DBS Loco Sales

[yummy125]

What type of company is "EMR" as they have 56 006: Hope it's not a scrapyard.

DBS Locomotive Sales
December 2011

Bars (2 Class 56)
56091 56103

EMR (27 Class 56)
56006 56031 56032 56037 56038 56046 56049 56051 56058 56060 56065 56069 56073 56074 56077 56078 56081 56087 56090 56094 56096 56104 56105 56106 56112 56113 56133

Europhoenix (3 Class 56)
56018 56115 56117

Private Sale (1 Class 56)
56007

Private Sale / Riviera (1 Class 47)
47799

 

[g4mby]

What type of company is "EMR" as they have 56 006: Hope it's not a scrapyard.

It is - http://www.emrltd.com/.

 

[Hydro]

I'm intrigued at Europhoenix buying three...

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Scrap merchants buying them isn't always a bad thing. if they are given an offer above scrap value, they'll probably sell it on, if not, they'll remove any bits of value and scrap the rest, meaning some spares may become available for other locos to use.

 

[sprinterguy]

It's interesting that 47799 has reportedly been acquired by Riviera. I thought they'd been working through selling off their 47s as they couldn't afford to fit them with TPWS or something?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Scrap merchants buying them isn't always a bad thing. if they are given an offer above scrap value, they'll probably sell it on, if not, they'll remove any bits of value and scrap the rest, meaning some spares may become available for other locos to use.

Indeed. 37670 is still hanging on at EMR Kingsbury for who knows what reason while all the other 37s that arrived around the same time have long since been despatched from this world.

 

[electra27000]

I'm intrigued at Europhoenix buying three...

Think about who Europhoenix's clients are and where the locos they provide go to work...

 

[yummy125]

It is - http://www.emrltd.com/.

Such a shame for a "Heritage" loco to get sent to it's maker, but as EWS was bought out by German DB then they have no interest in keeping our loco's anymore.

I hope someone can buy it soon but not looking good.

How many of the so called EWS "Heritage" loco's are left..?

47004
56006
58001
58050
60081
47798
47799
?????

 

[ainsworth74]

How many examples of 56s do we need to keep? There are already eight of them preserved! I'm also not sure what the ownership of owning company has to do with anything seeing as it was EWS that placed the orders for 66s that saw the end of the old locomotives in the first place (mostly because the new locomotives were cheaper to run, maintain and were more reliable).

 

[Royston Vasey]

It's interesting that 47799 has reportedly been acquired by Riviera. I thought they'd been working through selling off their 47s as they couldn't afford to fit them with TPWS or something?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed. 37670 is still hanging on at EMR Kingsbury for who knows what reason while all the other 37s that arrived around the same time have long since been despatched from this world.

Hasn't 37670 been bought by HNRC already?

 

[sprinterguy]

Hasn't 37670 been bought by HNRC already?

Has it? You probably know better than me tbh.

 

[Matt Taylor]

The diesel heritage scene in this country has got way out of hand. I grew up with Class 50s and am very fond of them, but why do we need 18 of them preserved? There is too much sentiment and not enough money on the scene. The people who pay the money are the families and they want to see Thomas and don't really care too much about anything else, they certainly are not interested in handing over hard earned money to ride behind 56006 simply because it was painted blue for a while.

By all means preserve a couple of 50's, a couple of 40s etc but the majority of the preserved diesel fleet will only make money by being returned to the main line and working for a living-like the Class 20s on the LUL transit moves.

 

[ainsworth74]

Exactly my point Matt! We have eight 56s and loads (30+?) of 47s (a lot still working on the mainline!) we don't need to save anything from that list.

 

[Schnellzug]

i think what we could really do with is more ETS equipped locos for charter and thunderbird-type work. That's why I think it was criminal stupidity for EWS (before they were bought by DB) to scrap so many 47s so quickly and leave everything that they didn't want just lying around to go rusty. Fitting ETS to all the 57/0s'd be a very good idea for a start, and I've often wondered whether it would be quite impossible to fit ETS to a 56. Not to mention that 56s might still be very useful for freight work.

 

[Ferret]

i think what we could really do with is more ETS equipped locos for charter and thunderbird-type work. That's why I think it was criminal stupidity for EWS (before they were bought by DB) to scrap so many 47s so quickly and leave everything that they didn't want just lying around to go rusty. Fitting ETS to all the 57/0s'd be a very good idea for a start, and I've often wondered whether it would be quite impossible to fit ETS to a 56. Not to mention that 56s might still be very useful for freight work.

Problem with the grids is that they are supposedly maintenance-hungry. Shame cos it'd be nice to see some working on the mainline again in significant quantities, but the reality is that 66s have moved the freight world on...

 

[Hydro]

I dont think I've heard a fitter say a good word about a 56. Utter pain to work on apparently.

 

[theblackwatch]

Such a shame for a "Heritage" loco to get sent to it's maker, but as EWS was bought out by German DB then they have no interest in keeping our loco's anymore.

I hope someone can buy it soon but not looking good.

How many of the so called EWS "Heritage" loco's are left..?

47004
56006
58001
58050
60081
47798
47799
?????

It's no more 'Heritage' than all the other 56s which have been bought for scrap or 56007 which has been preserved. Is it really any better to preserve 006 than 007? The latter could easily be painted blue (or whatever colour the owner wants!).

 

[sprinterguy]

It's no more 'Heritage' than all the other 56s which have been bought for scrap or 56007 which has been preserved. Is it really any better to preserve 006 than 007? The latter could easily be painted blue (or whatever colour the owner wants!).

56006 was part of EWS' self proclaimed "Heritage" fleet though, along with a small pool of other locos such as 37308, 47306, 58001, etc that were touted around all the open days and the like over the course of a couple of years.

Nonetheless, I agree that preservation candidates should be decided on much more important criteria than a "heritage" status that they held for a short period, but of course human nature means that for many the impetus to buy a loco for preservation will be based on their personal preferences for a specific class member.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I wonder how many 66s will get preserved. It will happen one day. Lets face it the tragedy is an example of the D600s (early warships) did not get saved. There will be other examples but thet dont spring to mind. Yet we have 36% of the class 50s saved.

In the next 20 years most of the generation that grew up with steam will have passed on. So there wont be a demand to see them from people wanting a bit of nostalgia. Then steam travel will have to market itself to people who have never experianced steam. Twenty years on from that and the deltics and Westerns will begin to find there are none of us looking for nostalgia from them.

My fear is that there is a lot of money wasted on saving too many examples of one type of loco (or train) justified by short term demand. But there will be no money left to make sure long term restoration is done to a few examples of say 56s. There might be no money left to save a single HST when the time comes.

 

[RichmondCommu]

i think what we could really do with is more ETS equipped locos for charter and thunderbird-type work. That's why I think it was criminal stupidity for EWS (before they were bought by DB) to scrap so many 47s so quickly and leave everything that they didn't want just lying around to go rusty. Fitting ETS to all the 57/0s'd be a very good idea for a start, and I've often wondered whether it would be quite impossible to fit ETS to a 56. Not to mention that 56s might still be very useful for freight work.

But surely it wasn't in EWS's interests to keep class 47's in warm storage given that they now had class 66's which were a damn sight more reliable. Why should they go to the trouble of storing loco's for which they have no further use? It doesn't make economic sense.

Also, why anybody would be interested in using class 56's to haul freight is beyond me given that there are plenty of class 66's that are off lease and from what I hear are far more reliable.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The diesel heritage scene in this country has got way out of hand. I grew up with Class 50s and am very fond of them, but why do we need 18 of them preserved? There is too much sentiment and not enough money on the scene. The people who pay the money are the families and they want to see Thomas and don't really care too much about anything else, they certainly are not interested in handing over hard earned money to ride behind 56006 simply because it was painted blue for a while.

By all means preserve a couple of 50's, a couple of 40s etc but the majority of the preserved diesel fleet will only make money by being returned to the main line and working for a living-like the Class 20s on the LUL transit moves.

I would tend to agree.

The first priority should be to ensure that one example of each class is preserved.

The second priority should then be an example of each individual sub class ( where appliciable ) within that class.

Only if both those points are satisfied and are properly funded and a suitable home found should thoughts turn to any additional members of whatever class.

 

[RichmondCommu]

In the next 20 years most of the generation that grew up with steam will have passed on. So there wont be a demand to see them from people wanting a bit of nostalgia. Then steam travel will have to market itself to people who have never experianced steam.

Sorry but I have to disagree with this statement. My 42 year old wife has no interest in railways (despite using them on a regular basis) but has an affection for steam engines. She is quite happy to spend a day at a preserved line providing steam engines are in use. Diesel days however are out of the question (as she points out our two cars have diesel engines and she couldn't give a monkeys about them either).

Thanks to Thomas and his friends children will always have an interest in steam engines but diesels are a different matter. At miniature railways, children's birthday parties are very popular but steam engines are a must. And long may it continue. For the record I'm 45.

 

[fgwrich]

Private Sale / Riviera (1 Class 47)
47799

It's interesting that 47799 has reportedly been acquired by Riviera. I thought they'd been working through selling off their 47s as they couldn't afford to fit them with TPWS or something?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed. 37670 is still hanging on at EMR Kingsbury for who knows what reason while all the other 37s that arrived around the same time have long since been despatched from this world.

Interesting!

Considering Rivera hardly make much use of their 47s Since entering the Rivera Alliance (Rivera / EWS) - apart from the odd hire out to DRS and Colas, as well as the fleet reduction this autumn, i wonder if this is the start of the Jeremy Hoskings influence into Rivera?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

But surely it wasn't in EWS's interests to keep class 47's in warm storage given that they now had class 66's which were a damn sight more reliable. Why should they go to the trouble of storing loco's for which they have no further use? It doesn't make economic sense....

Why scrap them when there are people willing to buy them? Simply because they might have given competing companies the locos to compete for their work. Better to scrap them than potentially lose work to others using the locos they sold!

 

[yummy125]

As long as the "important" BR / EWS loco's are saved, I don't care about the rest getting scrapped.

58 050 was the last Diesel to be built a Doncaster, that loco is rusting away in France / Spain, why not bring it back get it working and let people ride behind it.

56 006 should be saved as it's the oldest of its class, has 007 been saved cos the new owner likes James Bond films..?

 

[sprinterguy]

As long as the "important" BR / EWS loco's are saved, I don't care about the rest getting scrapped.

58 050 was the last Diesel to be built a Doncaster, that loco is rusting away in France / Spain, why not bring it back get it working and let people ride behind it.

58050 has been earmarked a place in the National Collection whenever DBS are finally completely finished with it.

56 006 should be saved as it's the oldest of its class, has 007 been saved cos the new owner likes James Bond films..?

An older class member is already in preservation though; 56003.

 

[Schnellzug]

But surely it wasn't in EWS's interests to keep class 47's in warm storage given that they now had class 66's which were a damn sight more reliable. Why should they go to the trouble of storing loco's for which they have no further use? It doesn't make economic sense.
.

No, they should've released them for sale immediately they had no more need for them, the only reason they broke them up immediately and then left others (like 60s) for years dumped out in the open was so that competitors couldn't get hold of them.

 

[theblackwatch]

Why scrap them when there are people willing to buy them? Simply because they might have given competing companies the locos to compete for their work. Better to scrap them than potentially lose work to others using the locos they sold!

But they didn't scrap them - they offered them for sale by tender on an open market and plenty of EWS 47s found themselves in other company's hands as well as preservation. Fragonset, WCRC, HNRC, the Stratford 47 Group etc all managed to acquire 47s which were disposed of by EWS.

 

[RichmondCommu]

No, they should've released them for sale immediately they had no more need for them, the only reason they broke them up immediately and then left others (like 60s) for years dumped out in the open was so that competitors couldn't get hold of them.

Well anyone with any business acumen would have done the same. You don't get ahead in business by gifting your competitors locos!

 

[stationpilot]

maybe 47799s royal history is something to do with the acquisition...?

 

[sprinterguy]

maybe 47799s royal history is something to do with the acquisition...?

I also hear that it has been looked after reasonably well at Ferrybridge since its' withdrawal compared to the rest of the RES 47/7s, which have all been scrapped or sold on now.