DBS are now offering 90's for sale.

[NXEA!]

Yes that's right folks, I received an email today from them to say that 12 of the class are for sale. They are as follows: 90017/022/023/025/030/031/032/033/037/038/040/050. Only 20 odd years old, and they're being offered for sale/scrap. Its quite sad really, especially as these locos could be of great further use if someone were to refurbish them. They have a decent top speed, quick acceleration, and they're a good mixed traffic locomotive.

 

[NLC1072]

Wow, They have loads of life left though... =S what else are they going to use on electrified lines to cover for them? assuming they still have any freight routes completely on electrified lines

 

[mumrar]

Wow, They have loads of life left though... =S what else are they going to use on electrified lines to cover for them? assuming they still have any freight routes completely on electrified lines

Perhaps they have a sufficient quantity of Class 92s for that work?

 

[sprinterguy]

Wow, They have loads of life left though... =S what else are they going to use on electrified lines to cover for them? assuming they still have any freight routes completely on electrified lines

The point is that they weren’t doing any work anyway:


The reason they’re being offered for sale is because they’ve been sitting unused at Crewe Electric for quite a while as there is no work for them. The amount of freight work available to the 90s has been dropping over the last decade, with the withdrawal of the postal trains on the ECML and WCML, and many 90 duties were taken over by 92s once they were cleared for use on the whole WCML. Even the railtour work they used to be regulars on is now generally in the hands of 67s, and the blanket application of 66s to all manner of freight workings even over electrified routes hasn’t helped.


It’s crazy. The 90s are only 20-25 years old. Being stored out in the open for a couple of years is not a good state of affairs for a loco as electrically sensitive and complex as a 90, so it’s a vicious circle of decline they’re in and it’s inevitable that some of these locos were going to be offered for sale far sooner than would be expected, as it’s cheaper to sell them than to give them the overhauls some of them require.

 

[NXEA!]

Perhaps they have a sufficient quantity of Class 92s for that work?

Yeah, most likely, and even these aren't used too much. I'm wondering if Freightliner will take advantage of these 90's and either buy them to provide spares or take them and give them an overhaul so they can replace their 86's as they're over 40 years old now. I'm not sure how many 86's are in traffic, but its around 15 I think.

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

The stored Class 92's will probably follow shortly. DBS certainly seems to be having a bit of an early spring clean.

Lets hope someone else grabs some of these machines before they end up at Long Marston and go the way the Cl86's and 87's have!

 

[NXEA!]

The stored Class 92's will probably follow shortly. DBS certainly seems to be having a bit of an early spring clean.

Lets hope someone else grabs some of these machines before they end up at Long Marston and go the way the Cl86's and 87's have!

Yeah your probably right. And to be honest with you, I wouldn't even bet on them moving to Long Marston. 032/37/40 have been stored in the open for a few years, 033 was involved in a collision with a car a few years ago and hasn't worked since, and 050 is in awful condition, I'd bet that those five if not the others as well will end up sitting in Booths or EMR Kingsbury. I still haven't copped 032 yet.

 

[sprinterguy]

Yeah, most likely, and even these aren't used too much. I'm wondering if Freightliner will take advantage of these 90's and either buy them to provide spares or take them and give them an overhaul so they can replace their 86's as they're over 40 years old now. I'm not sure how many 86's are in traffic, but its around 15 I think.

Correct, Freightliner has around 16 class 86s working in pairs: Let’s hope they see sense in modernising and standardising their fleet with 90s.

It would be nice to think that the idea behind selling the 90s is to give at least some of them the opportunity to be overhauled and used by another freight operator, rather than just chucking them out for scrap.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Shame really in a word.

just a query question suggestion. Would it be worth say WCRC or equivalent buying any? if relatively serviceable cos they could be used on WCML ECML etc on railtours especially ones like from london euston to crewe then steam onwards over diesel lines......
Thoughts... i am aware it may be stupid but just a suggestion

Id hope Freightliner could get some.

if the 92's do follow... where would they most likely head? Europe?

 

[captainbigun]

A pair of 86s will always be superior to a 90. 90s can't be re-geared (downwards) so options are limited.

The 92s are a conundrum. They have massive hauling capacity, will haul 1600t uphill and down dale at their design speed. They'll do more than that too. However, they are massively complex due to the chunnel working requirements.

A 92 can be readily overhauled, Brush have a package to enable this. I'd expect more 92s to be returned to service. DBS are less likely to want to sell these as there are other operators who would take them without doubt.

All of these 90s have been robbed, some butchered in the process. Anyone considering purchasing for overhaul would have to be looking at anything up to the half million to return to service. Also bear in mind there are no spares, little is common with other classes. Asking Alstom to manafacture small quantity of anything is going to be seriously expensive. Anything obsolete may mean that approval work is required further pushing up the price. In all honesty the only place I can see work is abroad where they can manage the overhaul process more cheaply (cheaper labour). Failing that, assuming they sell, I'd imagine the cutters torch awaits.

 

[NXEA!]

Shame really in a word.

just a query question suggestion. Would it be worth say WCRC or equivalent buying any? if relatively serviceable cos they could be used on WCML ECML etc on railtours especially ones like from london euston to crewe then steam onwards over diesel lines......
Thoughts... i am aware it may be stupid but just a suggestion

Id hope Freightliner could get some.

if the 92's do follow... where would they most likely head? Europe?

Nah the ideas good, but Carnforth depot isn't wired up which is where WCRC are based. But yeah for the electric legs I think its a good idea. And the 92's are suitable for France I think, so it wouldn't surprise me. As and when the MML gets wired up, part of me thinks its a good idea that 90's and Mark 3's operate the Nottingham/Derby/Sheffield and Leeds services, as the line is only 110 mph maximum anyway, but I'm not sure if its going to be upgraded to 125 in the future. With the 90's good acceleration, I think they'd provide a good and fast service, especially on the Nottingham slows, which call at quite a few stations.

 

[Hydro]

I would've thought it'd be worthwhile "downgrading" a few 92's to remove the duplicate components for tunnel working and leaving them available to run on domestic metals only. Only a few are really needed for tunnel work. This removes a lot of the maintenance requirements, a fair bit of weight (though if this removes a bit of tractive capability, could be ballasted), and could see them more widely used.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

It's a pity that somebody couldn't come up with a decent design for a high speed con flat for moving perishables (and by that I mean 100 mph plus), to take advantage of the maximum speed that the 90 could offer on fully juiced up flows.

 

[37402]

IIRC 92's (the EWS ones anyway) are HBOS property so can't be sold? They're registered on TOPS as such anyway...

 

[tbtc]

1. Not enough lines are electrified for them to be useful (they could do Manchester Airport - Glasgow/Edinburgh, London - Oxford, Midland Mainline, Liverpool - Newcastle etc if these lines were all wired, but they aren't)

2. Too slow for "mainline" passenger service (the speeds have increased since the '90s days)

3. The freight flows aren't there for them, or involve "un electrified" lines

 

[Electrostar]

It seems crazy that some 87s were sold abroad when the newer 90s were sat awaiting scrapping. Then again it only feels like yesterday the almost-new units made the TV news after being pulled out of service en masse for modifications. Cue a trip to Willesden to glimpse them!

 

[captainbigun]

The 87s are more readily supported and maintained without help from the OEM. There's no way the Bulgarians would have wanted to cough up for Alstom to make them spares!

 

[colchesterken]

As a user or the Norwich London service, I should like to see the remaining 90 used to make up say 6 reburbed units and put them into use on the GEML they could use reconditioned mk3 or even mk2 stocke which is stored and at the same time rebuild our DSBO s and let us have our 24 seats back rather than run up and down with an empty coach ie DVT
As a passenger and trainspotter I would rather travel in a nice mk3 or mk2 e or f ,rather than a 360 or 321

 

[route:oxford]

The 92s are Third Rail & Pantograph, is that right?

Southampton area is 3rd rail and vast amounts of freight enter and leave the country via that route...

Part of the GWML is due to be wired up...

With a bit of in-fill, surely the 92 is going to be a very desirable loco in the future?

 

[Hydro]

The 92s are Third Rail & Pantograph, is that right?

Southampton area is 3rd rail and vast amounts of freight enter and leave the country via that route...

Part of the GWML is due to be wired up...

With a bit of in-fill, surely the 92 is going to be a very desirable loco in the future?

You'd have to juice up the Basingstoke to Reading bit, wire up a few bits around Acton/Willesden and you could have 92's pulling from Soton to Scotland in theory.

 

[tbtc]

The 92s are Third Rail & Pantograph, is that right?

Southampton area is 3rd rail and vast amounts of freight enter and leave the country via that route...

Part of the GWML is due to be wired up...

With a bit of in-fill, surely the 92 is going to be a very desirable loco in the future?

...if only they were wiring Reading - Basingstoke instead of Reading - Newbury... it'd then be a good business case for electrifying beyond Oxford to Coventry, and you've got an electrified line (avoiding London) for freight

 

[route:oxford]

As a user or the Norwich London service, I should like to see the remaining 90 used to make up say 6 reburbed units and put them into use on the GEML they could use reconditioned mk3 or even mk2 stocke which is stored and at the same time rebuild our DSBO s and let us have our 24 seats back rather than run up and down with an empty coach ie DVT
As a passenger and trainspotter I would rather travel in a nice mk3 or mk2 e or f ,rather than a 360 or 321

If you rebuild the DBSO, will it still have the "grandfather rights" re manual doors and DDA requirements?

Or cheaper to just engage Bombardier to build half a dozen 172 "DMS" units as a DBSO with Mk3 compatable gangway and coupler?

The 172 DBSO would be fully DDA compatible, have retention toilet and interface with the central door locking...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

You'd have to juice up the Basingstoke to Reading bit, wire up a few bits around Acton/Willesden and you could have 92's pulling from Soton to Scotland in theory.

You could do that right now if you sent them the long way round via the Southern routes from Southampton ( yes, I know the Brighton Line is full and the Arundel route isn't far behind ), crossed them nto the slow lines through Clapham Junction and sent them diving under to the West London Line to Willesden like the Croydon to watford service does...

 

[captainbigun]

The 92s require a lot of amps on all forms of supply, especially the DC. The upgrades wouldn't be justified I suspect. The DBSOs are gone and I wouldn't expect to see a repalcement. The Mk3 sets will ultimately be replaced by quicker, more efficient units more suited to the overall route.

 

[Hydro]

The SWML corridor had power upgrades done for the Desiros, if 92's can work out of Dollands subject to some minor operating restrictions (limits on numbers of locos powering in section) then Soton - Basing shouldn't be too bad. The issue would be infill between Basing and Reading, and juiced facilities for the 92's at Maritime.

It won't happen, but musings don't hurt.

 

[colchesterken]

captainbigun.. have they got rid of the remaining DBSO s I thought they were in store at long marsden.i know network rail had two for one of their inspection trains,that would leave about 10

 

[Hydro]

captainbigun.. have they got rid of the remaining DBSO s I thought they were in store at long marsden.i know network rail had two for one of their inspection trains,that would leave about 10

NR have five IIRC. Four in regular use, one squirrelled away somewhere I believe.

 

[fgwrich]

captainbigun.. have they got rid of the remaining DBSO s I thought they were in store at long marsden.i know network rail had two for one of their inspection trains,that would leave about 10

NR have five IIRC. Four in regular use, one squirrelled away somewhere I believe.

Northern Ireland Railways have one Ex Anglia, Ex Rivera Trains DBSO - Refurbished for use with NIR's Gatwick set & modified for use with the 111s, but sadly the idea of using it on the Derry's & Portadown commuter services seems to have fallen through, right after the DBSO's Refurb & Repaint! :roll: Shall be speaking to Mal McGreevy next month - so might give an update then...Probably one of the Best condition DBSO's around too!

As for the remaining 8, They are stored in Knights Rail Eastleigh, sadly rotting away...Now Wasnt this bizarre outfit British American Railroad Services / Devon & Cornwall Railways supposed to be after some! For this eventual Okehampton to Exeter St James service?!!!

 

[Simon Poole]

Could East Coast use the 90''s as Thunderbirds? or National Express East Anglia use them on the London Liverpool Street to Norwich Services?

Shame to waste the Class 90's when you can use them for new services or use them to add more services!

 

[ainsworth74]

Could East Coast use the 90''s as Thunderbirds? or National Express East Anglia use them on the London Liverpool Street to Norwich Services?

67s (on the ECML not sure what is used on GEML) provide more flexibility than a 90 would. A 67 could come in and rescue a train stranded by a failure in the OHLE whilst a 90 would be unable to do anything. 67 could also drag a failed set away from the wires altogether should the need arise whilst rescuing a failed set. To me using a diesel as a Thunderbird makes more sense than using a 90 or any other electric loco.