DB timetable change - alternative routing

[mugam4]

I had booked to travel London - St Anton am Arlberg via ICE15-ICE597-RJ287-RJX168 (Brussels - Frankfurt - Stuttgart - Munich - Innsbruck - St Anton), and have just happened on the information that ICE597 Frankfurt-Munich has been retimed and will no longer arrive at Munich Hbf before the departure of RJ287.

The most 'obvious' alternative I can see is to take ICE627-ICE1109 via Nürnberg to reach Munich. However, this involves a tight connection at Nürnberg that I observe is only made about half of the time historically. I would like to take ICE75-RJX369 via Zurich, which will get me to my final destination within a few minutes of the original arrival time with much more generous connection allowances.

Is this reasonable, given my DB Sparpreis is to Innsbruck?

The tickets I hold are:

* a Sparpreis Brussels - Innsbruck, booked with international-bahn.de (who have not contacted me regarding the change)
* a verkehrsverbund ticket Innsbruck - St Anton (which I have not actually purchased yet)

 

[rvdborgt]

Travel via Switzerland is not allowed, unless DB give you an extra ticket for it but I doubt they will.

 

[mugam4]

Does that apply even if innocently turning up to a situation on the day where via Zurich is the only itinerary that won't incur a 2-hour delay? HOTNAT/AJC/20/60-minute rule or something?

 

[rvdborgt]

Does that apply even if innocently turning up to a situation on the day where via Zurich is the only itinerary that won't incur a 2-hour delay? HOTNAT/AJC/20/60-minute rule or something?

DB will at least have to approve your ticket to use with an operator that's not on the ticket. They might do that if you'd otherwise be stranded and they'd need to organise a hotel or a taxi.

 

[nwales58]

Also, 1) DB retimings can be re-re-un-retimed so it might still work. 2) If not, my guess from experience is that DB staff will look at the journey planner and helpfully tell you to carry on to Munich because you will still get to Innsbruck (your ticket) that night. Unless you are already late at Frankfurt I suspect you will be told to catch ICE597.

If not late and you catch ICE627, unless you get a Zugbindung aufgehoben slip for your Sparpreis I suspect you will be charged Flexpreis from Frankfurt. I’ve seen similar disputes going on.

Your booked connections could have failed anyway. 17 minutes at Munich from a train that has spent 8 hours travelling from Berlin is a bit risky so there always was some risk of getting to Innsbruck 2h late.

Basically, Sparpreis is inflexible until you are late, only then does it become completely flexible, within DBland.

 

[30907]

You will, of course, be able to claim for the delay.
The planner is (optimistically?) showing changes at Rosenheim and Kufstein onto the RJX that you would have been catching anyway.

The alternative route I can see being allowed is via Lindau which would pick up RJX369 at Feldkirch and get you to St Anton on time.
Your case might be more convincing if you had the local ticket Innsbruck-St Anton already.

 

[mugam4]

Thanks all for your helpful advice and insight.

As far as I can see, my options are:

1. Continue on ICE 597 to Munich as booked, knowing the connection with RJ287 to Innsbruck won't be made, arrive St Anton +2:20. Claim 50% compensation. Possibility: guaranteed, on time arrival: 0%
2. Somehow extract from DB, either beforehand or from the conductor on a previous train, permission to suspend Zugbindung and travel on ICE627-ICE1109, with a ~50% chance of making the connection between the two and not arriving +2:20. If connection missed, claim 50% compensation. Possibility: possibly, on time arrival: 50%
3. As above but via Lindau and via Feldkirch also involves multiple short connections, if missed, compensation, etc. Possibility: possibly, on time arrival: I will be generous and say 50%
4. Somehow extract from DB beforehand/on the day permission to travel via Zurich on ICE75 (probability seems low). Hope that ICE75 isn't more than one 30-minute takt cycle late allowing the connection in Zurich to be made. Less, more comfortable connections lugging skis around. Possibility: almost zero, on time arrival: decent chance?
5. Book a new Sparpreis Frankfurt-St Anton via Zurich for 49€ but allowing me not to purchase the Innsbruck - St Anton ticket for 20€, so an extra spend of 29€. Possibility: guaranteed, on time arrival: decent chance?
6. ICE597 is re-retimed and situation resolves itself. Possibility: unknown, on time arrival: as swallowed when booking

 

[nwales58]

Excellent contingency analysis.

I'd go for 1+6, treat it as a standard german rail adventure day (GRAD), see when you get there (unless about to be stranded overnight). It's less exciting than some GRAD as the RJ originates so will almost certainly leave on time. I assume you're spending a few days skiing so 2h is not a disaster and no worse than a typical winter alps flight delay.

Faced with germany (or romania for that matter), I think minimax, minimise maximum delay, rather than optimising expected delay. But you might put a high value on the evening party instead.

 

[mugam4]

Excellent contingency analysis.

I'd go for 1+6, treat it as a standard german rail adventure day (GRAD), see when you get there (unless about to be stranded overnight). It's less exciting than some GRAD as the RJ originates so will almost certainly leave on time. I assume you're spending a few days skiing so 2h is not a disaster and no worse than a typical winter alps flight delay.

Faced with germany (or romania for that matter), I think minimax, minimise maximum delay, rather than optimising expected delay. But you might put a high value on the evening party instead.

True, but after 23h vs before 21h after a 6am start is a little miserable which makes 2 or 5 more appealing.

Separately, my (few) experiences of DB during disruption have been positive previously, and I'm surprised that 1 is on the table from DB's side.

 

[rvdborgt]

Basically, Sparpreis is inflexible until you are late, only then does it become completely flexible, within DBland.

Sparpreis is inflexible until you are expected to be late at your destination. This expectation is currently there.

 

[30907]

If you force a 30-min stop at Friedrichshafen, the only risky connection via that route is at Feldkirch, and from my limited experience that line is reliable.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Further option presumably to take a separate Sparpreis ticket from Ulm (?changing point from ICE 597) to Innsbruck-St Anton via Friederichshafen - Feldkirch?

One can only admire your determination to get to St Anton in a day but, not withstanding your earlier positive experiences with DB, ICE/IC delays in Germany are sadly endemic. I would be allowing at least 120mins contingency time for a journey of that kind. The weakest link may well actually turn out to be getting to Brussels in time for the ICE15 given the connection from London is v. tight (only works for me about half the time...)... but at least you can get a 'hotnat' from the desks downstairs at Bruxelles-Midi to save debates within Germany and can re-route as needed beyond Frankfurt Flughafen.

Strictly, I'm pretty sure that 'hotnat' doesn't allow international rerouting any more than 'zugbindung aufgehoben' does within Germany...

As others have probably pointed out, in terms of the probability matrix one should perhaps also allow for delay/loss of any 'delay repay' claim on DB. It's not as automatic as the GB system and may take a couple of goes to get any money back. The whole concept is fairly new for Germany....

 

[rvdborgt]

Further option presumably to take a separate Sparpreis ticket from Ulm (?changing point from ICE 597) to Innsbruck-St Anton via Friederichshafen - Feldkirch?

I wouldn't buy such a ticket. But if you plan to reroute this way, then it's best to buy the ticket Innsbruck-St. Anton as soon as deviate from the route via Munich.

Strictly, I'm pretty sure that 'hotnat' doesn't allow international rerouting any more than 'zugbindung aufgehoben' does within Germany...

Using another border crossing while on an alternative route has been allowed since at least the 1980 CIV, as long as you use the same operators.
With HOTNAT, you can also use another operator (Railteam member), and this doesn't exclude using another route or border crossing, but a limiting factor is that the missed connection must have taken place at one of the 6 hubs.

As others have probably pointed out, in terms of the probability matrix one should perhaps also allow for delay/loss of any 'delay repay' claim on DB. It's not as automatic as the GB system and may take a couple of goes to get any money back. The whole concept is fairly new for Germany....

It has existed for more than 15 years now, so it's not new anymore IMO.

 

[nwales58]

One can only admire your determination to get to St Anton in a day ... I would be allowing at least 120mins contingency time for a journey of that kind.

I tried a less ambitious Bad Gastein-Lille in a day with over 2 hours of slack. Stuck in delightful Kortrijk overnight instead. This is why hotels with 1800 cancellation on the day are useful.

Even Criccieth-Frankfurt needs Köln or Liège contingencies in reality in case the Eurostar to ICE19 connection fails. Passenger rights aren't much comfort if you get to your hotel around 0300 with next day onward travel (or work) planned.

 

[mugam4]

Well, the results. The Eurostar terminated in p4/p6 at Brussels, making for an easy connection.

We chose option 5, a new ticket via Zürich, and this worked perfectly, and was a relaxed trip. It was an enjoyable journey.

In the end, option 2 would've worked out with ICE1109 being held for 2 minutes to make the connection, but a tad more stressful.

Option 6 didn't transpire.

If doing this again, I wouldn't even consider not going (and paying the higher fare) via Zürich.

Thanks again!