DB Schenker Groundstaff

[Beveridges]

Apparently the difference in pulling power between a 60 and 66 is not as big as most people make out. It's like a difference of 2 or 3 wagons on the Liverpool Bulk Terminal coals. I've seen 60s slip to a stand at Peak Forest on the stone.

 

[shedman]

That is very true but I'm sure someone will be along soon to tell me I'm wrong for agreeing and you know nothing because you're 'only' an MDD.

 

[Legzr1]

Have any of you two driven a train booked a Cl. 60 but a replacement Cl. 66 has been used?

I'm guessing no otherwise you'd be voicing different opinions

As for the only difference being 'two or three wagons' - in most cases X wagons = breaking even, X + 3 = profit.
A lot more important than some seem to 'think'.

 

[shedman]

Of course I have driven a 66 vice 60 hence why I can make such a statement

 

[Legzr1]

Great.

So you'll understand the difference in my little calculation above then?

 

[shedman]

Great.

So you'll understand the difference in my little calculation above then?

No, but I understand what you're trying to say and you're talking utter rubbish. Just to point out, your little calculations are totally flawed because of the nature of such trains.

Bottom line is the majority of the 60s are surplus to requirement and are being sold on that basis.

 

[GB]

Are you saying those such trains earn the same amount of revenue regardless of train length?

I don't know how the contracts and payments work at DBS but Legzr1 is right in what he says...at least for GBRf from what I understand. The more you haul the more it pays and those extra 2 or 3 wagons on regular services spread across the year can make a big difference to the bottom line.

 

[JAMBO]

I had the impression that's how DB,HH, and GB ran? The number of wagons the train is hauling. Some manager once said to me it's the last 3 wagons that is the profit, which is why you wouldn't see many coal trains running around with less than the wagons it's booked to haul.

 

[Legzr1]

No, but I understand what you're trying to say and you're talking utter rubbish. Just to point out, your little calculations are totally flawed because of the nature of such trains.

Proof (as if it was needed) that agreeing with someone who is wrong doesn't make you both right

As GB and Jambo have said, all the big players operate in the same way for the vast majority of trains - it's the only way to actually make money on bulk services.

In a 'business meeting' there was once a driver who suggested taking the three profitable wagons from each train and making a train full of just the special three - every wagon makes money whilst the 33 per train not making money could sit idle in a yard somewhere

There's a chance he's already posted in this thread...

 

[#1 driver]

X wagons = breaking even, X + 3 = profit.

you're talking utter rubbish.your little calculations are totally flawed .

in what way is that rubbish or flawed ?

bang on I'd say .

In a 'business meeting' there was once a driver who suggested taking the three profitable wagons from each train and making a train full of just the special three - every wagon makes money whilst the 33 per train not making money could sit idle in a yard somewhere

wise words there !

 

[shedman]

Can every power station take a 24 HTA set? Can every loading terminal handle one? Does every coal service run as booked every day? No is the answer to all 3 so yes, flawed.

I'm not stupid so don't try to patronise me. As I've already stated I'm fully aware how trains make money but this debate has come about by you lot thinking Schenker hasn't got a clue what they're doing by selling SURPLUS class 60s.

 

[Legzr1]

Couple of points;

I never mentioned anything about selling/retaining/scrapping Cl.60's.

There are three drivers on here with a combined experience approaching 70 years working for the main freight players and we all agree on the business model and how profit is made from bulk services.

You're in agreement with someone who's experience of the mainline involves around 400 yards of rail in a siding travelling at 5mph.

Now, in all probability, which is the fair representation of how real freight companies operate out in the real world?
Do you think a quick 5 minute Google can replace years of hands-on experience?

You could take the opportunity to bow out gracefully at this point - simply don't reply to this post


By the way, cancelling a train booked to convey 21HTA's attracts £thousands in penalties (depending on the nature of the contract) - which do you think the wiser option - run a train with 18 wagons meaning you lose a couple of quid running the service OR cancel the whole lot?

Don't want to give you the answer but here's a clue - sometimes you will see short-formed trains running around the network

 

[shedman]

Dodged the subject again

 

[#1 driver]

Can every power station take a 24 HTA set? Can every loading terminal handle one? Does every coal service run as booked every day? No is the answer to all 3 so yes, flawed.

really , where are you getting this from ?

we ( DBS ) make a profit on 21 HTA sets .
end of .
FACT !

longer trains make more profit !
( if they didn't , why spend more money on fuel and maintenance to run them ? )

I'm not stupid so don't try to patronise me.

I didn't say you are , just your argument !

this debate has come about by you lot thinking Schenker hasn't got a clue what they're doing by selling SURPLUS class 60s.

they aren't surplus , just no work for them at the moment .



i'll say that bit again as you didn't get it the first time !

they aren't surplus , just no work for them at the moment .

 

[Legzr1]

Dodged the subject again

You certainly did.

So far you're wrong on profitable business models, wrong on how FOC's make money and (by the looks of it) wrong on the strategies employed by DBS on loco allocation/deployment.

Quite an achievement even compared to the lofty heights normally displayed on this part of the internet

I suggest you go have a word with your line manager when you're next on duty - ask them "how do trains make money?" - perhaps you'll take their word for it...

 

[shedman]

I'll ask him how to tie my shoe laces too.

Have I disputed how trains make money? No I haven't. If the class 60s were required then why are they being offered for sale?

The only thing I have said is a 66 can haul pretty much 99% of all work.

Please feel free to read back all my comments.

 

[Legzr1]

Have I disputed how trains make money? No I haven't.

I took your advice and read back and found phrases like "talking utter rubbish" and "flawed".

You can cut the irony with a broom...



By the way, 66's can haul 100% of the trains they're correctly diagrammed for - the point you seem to be missing is that they struggle when placed on heavy trains diagrammed for Cl 60's.
There's a difference between eventually getting a train moving and actually accelerating it in a timely manner - for someone who claims to have driven both loco's hauling heavy trains your opinion is the polar opposite of everyone else on here (excepting the MDD expert...).

Anyway, as you were.

 

[ste]

Shedmen did u work with a driver called Trevor ?

 

[Cab2Cab]

Hi,

Don't mean to be rude but this thread was about DB groundstaff.

HST 125 pm me, I may be able to help you with your original thread question.

Cheers

 

[steveo]

Last week It took 45 minutes to draw a set of 18 loaded hja's off the block at dowlow (near peak forest) with a 66, the following day a 60 did it with out breaking a sweat. Also we have to break test with handbrakes on around peak with a 66 but a 60 will hold the train no problem with all handbrakes off we're crying out for more 60's at bleak forest
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh and going back to topic my roster is weds thurs Friday nights 18:00 while 04:00 rd sat and sun then mon to thurs days 07:00 while 17:00 fri 09:30 while 14:30 sat 05:30 while 13:00 sun 23:00 while 04:00 mon & tues 18:00 while 04:00 then seven rd's that's one early every three weeks with 9 rest days off.

 

[Legzr1]

Last week It took 45 minutes to draw a set of 18 loaded hja's off the block at dowlow (near peak forest) with a 66, the following day a 60 did it with out breaking a sweat. Also we have to break test with handbrakes on around peak with a 66 but a 60 will hold the train no problem with all handbrakes off we're crying out for more 60's at bleak forest

That confirms what a couple of us have already posted so thanks for finally putting the argument to bed.

The straight air brake on the 60 is a handy tool too - the system fitted to the 66 is pitiful in comparison.