DB ICE First Class/ DB Bahn carda

[Masbroughlad]

Does anybody know what the added extras are when travelling first class on the ICE train on DB?

In December, 2 of us will be travelling on ICE trains. 2 short journeys and one longer one. Would we be better going 2nd class on all three, just on the shorter trips or go 1st class on all?

Berlin to Leipzig, Leipzig to Nuremburg and Nuremburg to Munich.

Is it worth getting a Bahn card?

Answers and any hints or advice will be very welcome.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Gordon]

Does anybody know what the added extras are when travelling first class on the ICE train on DB?
Berlin to Leipzig, Leipzig to Nuremburg and Nuremburg to Munich.
e.

A few extra perks in some ICE 1st class, but nothing really ground breaking.
Useful DB blurb about ICE travel in English here:
http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/trains/overview/ice.shtml


However I always like to travel first class if I can in France , Switzerland and Germany as it just feels so much comfier and more spacious, especially in Germany where DB seats are ridiculously comfortable especially in comparison to SNCF.

All your journeys are long enough for first class to be worth it in my view and of course you will be doing Leipzig - Nurnberg just ahead of the opening of the first part of the new HS line on that route.



.

 

[k-c-p]

Apart from wider seats, the most notable benefits it 1st class:
- seat reservation included (4,50€ in 2nd class)
- free Wifi (access fee in 2nd class)
- free (German) newspapers (no papers in 2nd)
- you can have food/drink from the bar delivered to your seat
- access the lounges which offer free drinks. At some bigger station, there are 1st class lounges that offer some more services,

All first calss service can be found at
http://www.bahn.com/p_en/view/service/train-services/first-class/first-class-service.shtml

Rule of thumb for prices in 1st class: about 60% more expensive than 2nd class.
For discount ticket, you may have the situation where a 1st class ticket is only 10 or 20 euros more expensive than one for 2nd class.

In terms of Bahncard: There are two types:
- BC25: Gives you a 25% discount on regular and discount fares. Costs round about 60€ in 2nd class
- BC50: Gives you a 50% discount on regular fares, but no reduction for dicount fares. Cost in 2nd class ~250€

For 1st class Bahncards. double the prices above. If you want to have a discount for a 1st class fare, you need a Bahncard of 1st class.
Bahncards are ususally valid for 12 month and will renewed automatically, unless you cancel them (in writing)

Right now there is an offer for Bahncard25/50 being available as "trial versions" which have validity of 3 month. Especially the BC25 has a very competitive price.

Details can be found here
http://www.bahn.com/p_en/view/bahncard/overview/probebahncard.shtml

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

All your journeys are long enough for first class to be worth it in my view and of course you will be doing Leipzig - Nurnberg just ahead of the opening of the first part of the new HS line on that route.

I think the Berlin-Leipzig-Nürnberg-München trains continue using the classic line via Jena and the Saale valley from December.
Not worth rerouting until the southern half of the NBS is open from Erfurt.

 

[30907]

I think the Berlin-Leipzig-Nürnberg-München trains continue using the classic line via Jena and the Saale valley from December.
Not worth rerouting until the southern half of the NBS is open from Erfurt.

There is a major block on that route south of Saalfeld for several months but IIRC not till January. Trains routed via NBS-Erfurt-Fulda-NBS-Würzburg.

As k-c-p says you get some freebies, I reckon the lounges are the best bit (used them for a break during sightseeing too!) but you need to make enough time for a coffee, a sandwich and a drink!

You'd have to do a lot of travelling to profit from even a trial BC.

You could consider doing Nuremberg-Munich on the 125mph RE over the NBS on which a Bayern Ticket is valid (after 0900)

 

[Masbroughlad]

You could consider doing Nuremberg-Munich on the 125mph RE over the NBS on which a Bayern Ticket is valid (after 0900)

What is the NBS please? Also what is a Bayern ticket? Sorry am not too up on DB!

 

[30907]

Sorry.

NBS Neubaustrecke aka SFS/Schnellfahrstrecke = High Speed Line.

Bayernticket. Offpeak Dayrover for regional trains. Every German Land (region) has one.

And RE is Regional Express (a DB train that is specified by a Land, accepts local fares, and doesn't call at all stations)

 

[Gordon]

What is the NBS please? Also what is a Bayern ticket? Sorry am not too up on DB!

NBS already decoded, but to translate (if you are that interested!) fully Neu = new bau = build = strecke = route

You may also come across ABS = AusBauStrecke. This means upgraded route. Quite a lot of sections of line now used at higher speeds by ICEs are ABS although it is not so easy in some places to work out which are which.

Note that part of the Berlin - Nurnberg new line will be ABS, as you can see on the site here:

http://www.bahn.de/s_nuernberg/view...b_85669_ausbaustrecke_nuernberg-ebensfeld.pdf





.

 

[jaapstam]

Hi Masboroughlad,

I am a new member of railforums. I am working for the long distance trains section of Deutsche Bahn.

Any other questions open about your trips? Or has everything been clarified?

Have a nice journey through Germany!

Kind regards
Jaap

 

[WestCoast]

Hi Masboroughlad,

I am a new member of railforums. I am working for the long distance trains section of Deutsche Bahn.

Any other questions open about your trips? Or has everything been clarified?

Have a nice journey through Germany!

Kind regards
Jaap

Hi Jaap,

Welcome onboard! Great to have a member of staff from DB Fernverkehr on the forum! I had falsely assumed from your username you might be from Nederlandse Spoorwegen, as there are a few (very helpful) members from there. Nice to have someone from DB, as questions come up about ICEs a lot!

WestCoast

 

[jaapstam]

Hi Jaap,

Welcome onboard! Great to have a member of staff from DB Fernverkehr on the forum! I had falsely assumed from your username you might be from Nederlandse Spoorwegen, as there are a few (very helpful) members from there. Nice to have someone from DB, as questions come up about ICEs a lot!

WestCoast

Thanks a lot WestCoast!

My username does indeed refer to the Netherlands. Jaap Stam was a fantastic dutch defender playing for Manchester United.

I am better in railways than playing football, I'm trying both anyway

So I am happy to be here and ready for giving support and advice.

Regards
Jaap

 

[gordonthemoron]

Do you know when the Velaro-D/ICE4 will come into service?

 

[jaapstam]

Do you know when the Velaro-D/ICE4 will come into service?

Yes, I do. It is planned to use the ICE 4 from 2017. Unlike other new trains, the ICE 4 is to get an intensive test programme WITH passengers. At the moment it is planned to use one unit between Hamburg and Munich, via Hanover, Kassel, Fulda, Wuerzburg, Nuremberg from late summer 2016 and test it "in daily use" for about one year.

Btw, one ICE 4 is baptized (most ICE units carry cities' names) this week's friday (Dec 4th) at Südkreuz station in Berlin by DB's CEO Rüdiger Grube.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do you know when the Velaro-D/ICE4 will come into service?

Oh, I forgot one thing. "Velaro D" and "ICE 4" are two different series! The "Velaro D" (class 407) is already in service since about two years I think.

It is mainly used between Frankfurt and Paris and on some services between Frankfurt and Cologne/Dortmund as well as Düsseldorf and Stuttgart.

If you plan to be on a class 407 service, go for the Frankfurt - Paris route. Your possibility there is the highest I guess

 

[gordonthemoron]

I saw the Velaro-D a few times in Munich in 2011, it looks a bit bigger than an ICE3, although quite similar. It was often parked up in the Holzkirchener Bahnhof section of Munich Hbf and quite close to my office

 

[jaapstam]

I saw the Velaro-D a few times in Munich in 2011, it looks a bit bigger than an ICE3, although quite similar. It was often parked up in the Holzkirchener Bahnhof section of Munich Hbf and quite close to my office

The biggest differences in my opinion are that in Velaro D there are no seats right behind the cab (called "lounge" in ICE3), it has a smaller kitchen but full restaurant seating, no standard class coaches between restaurant and first class section, lift onboard for wheelchairs, more seat capacity, no compartments but all "open seating", different form of the windows in the doors and a different "passenger information system"

 

[HowardGWR]

The biggest differences in my opinion are that in Velaro D there are no seats right behind the cab (called "lounge" in ICE3), it has a smaller kitchen but full restaurant seating, no standard class coaches between restaurant and first class section, lift onboard for wheelchairs, more seat capacity, no compartments but all "open seating", different form of the windows in the doors and a different "passenger information system"

Jaap, on an ICE I took from Utrecht to Cologne, we were allocated in the front seats. It took me a while, but then I suddenly realised the screen to the cab was transparent!. Without seeing the driver too intimately*, one could see the track in front of you. Which type of ICE was that?

*I bet they are pleased about that!

 

[33Hz]

That's an ICE 3*. I've been on them many times, but I've never had the screen transparent on the section between Frankfurt and Cologne. Why is this? I really want to see the view on that line.

I've been on the Velaro D between Munich and Stuttgart too. Similar ambiance but without the forward view


* Technically ICE 3M for multi-system.

 

[jaapstam]

That's an ICE 3*. I've been on them many times, but I've never had the screen transparent on the section between Frankfurt and Cologne. Why is this? I really want to see the view on that line.

I've been on the Velaro D between Munich and Stuttgart too. Similar ambiance but without the forward view


* Technically ICE 3M for multi-system.

That's correct. "ICE 3" and "Velaro D" are basically the same family - Velaro D being the youngest family member.

"ICE 3" consists of classes 403 (national use only), 406M (national use plus Belgium and Netherlands) and 406MF (national use plus France, not sure if Belgium and Netherlands as well). "M" standing for "Mehrsystem" (capable to different signalling and overhead power systems), "MF" standing for "Mehrsystem Frankreich" (France). All those classes have the "lounge" with "drivers view". The drivers are asked to allow the view, but those who do not want to offer it, they make the window blank - unfortunately.

Class 407 is able to run in Germany and France so far. As they take over the Frankfurt - Paris services, the 406MF lose their equipment for France and are "only" used in Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands.

No lounge with driver's view is available in class 407 units.

 

[33Hz]

The 407 is the version that maybe, one day, will also come to London (it's closest to the Eurostar e320 design). I hope that still happens.

One time I sat in the front of an ICE 3MF going to Paris in thick fog. That was quite scary, as you realise that the driver can see really nothing while going at 320 km/h.

 

[gordonthemoron]

The 407 is the version that maybe, one day, will also come to London (it's closest to the Eurostar e320 design). I hope that still happens.

One time I sat in the front of an ICE 3MF going to Paris in thick fog. That was quite scary, as you realise that the driver can see really nothing while going at 320 km/h.

From my experienced between Cologne and Brussels, an ICE3 driver doesn't actually do much 'driving' as it seems to be mainly computer controlled (the driver of my train was busy chatting with his colleagues rather than driving)

 

[jaapstam]

From my experienced between Cologne and Brussels, an ICE3 driver doesn't actually do much 'driving' as it seems to be mainly computer controlled (the driver of my train was busy chatting with his colleagues rather than driving)

That's perfectly right. I agree that it looks amazing if the train runs at 320km/h and the driver cannot see anything at all. But, to be honest, at this speed it doesn't really matter. If there is an obstacle your possibilities to react are very limited anyway.
And what can be experienced during fog is pretty much the same visibility as it is during the night...

 

[gordonthemoron]

One further question, I believe that ICE3s are limited to 300km/h in Germany. However, I was on a heavily delayed service between Frankfurt Airport and Cologne which I think was showing a speed of close to 320km/h at some point, is this possible?

 

[jaapstam]

One further question, I believe that ICE3s are limited to 300km/h in Germany. However, I was on a heavily delayed service between Frankfurt Airport and Cologne which I think was showing a speed of close to 320km/h at some point, is this possible?

I cannot give a guarantee here, but it should not be possible. I just called a train driver colleague. He told me this is no normal procedure. Every train has a timetable including the maximum speed. For the Frankfurt - Cologne route, these timetables always have 300km/h as the top speed. Should the train be allowed to go at 320, it would need to hand out a new timetable to the train's control system, which is not that easy as I was told.

So the officially correct answer seems to be "no", but: never say never...

Your assumption is correct as well: the regular maximum speed for trains in Germany is 300 km/h. I am pretty sure that the new line between Nuremberg and Erfurt will be capable for 300km/h as well but not faster.

 

[MisterT]

I've seen the speed of 314 km/h on the display once between Cologne and Frankfurt Flughafen, while the ICE train was descending from a hill.
I don't know for sure if it's the same thing on the German high speed section, but in the Netherlands, there is an allowance for a little overspeed at the high speed line. At 160 km/h it is 5 km/h, for 300 km/h it's 10 km/h I believe (but I'm not sure about the last one, as I only drive the intercity service on the High Speed section, not the Thalys trains).
It's a calculated overspeed, as the trains running at 300 km/h simply can't switch fast enough between regenerative braking and applying power to keep the speed exactly at 300 km/h (and you want to give the passengers a smooth ride). At 300 km/h, you don't want to use the disc brakes in normal circumstances, because you would have to renew them after every high speed section.
When running up a hill, the train's speed will be lower for the aboved stated reason, and could be higher than the maximum speed when descending from a hill (or in the Netherlands, into a tunnel).

 

[30907]

The lounge screen on an ICE3 has a habit of going milky at random, but I don't think it's route specific. Not sure whether drivers sometimes cloud them deliberately, just as some first generation DMU drivers on BR would drop the blinds.

 

[HowardGWR]

The lounge screen on an ICE3 has a habit of going milky at random, but I don't think it's route specific. Not sure whether drivers sometimes cloud them deliberately, just as some first generation DMU drivers on BR would drop the blinds.

Well,thanks anyway to Jaap and others for explanation. It seems to me that a half screen would afford privacy for the driver; in any event, it lessened the effect of the frontal seating otherwise facing a blank wall. Perhaps that was the reasoning for the provision.

 

[33Hz]

I've also seen an ICE 3 at >310 km/h in Germany and verified it on GPS, so it can happen.

As for the "randomness" of the screen, I've definitely seen it go opaque on the Frankfurt-Cologne NBS but clear on the same train either before or after it.

Which is a shame as I would love to see this view for real.

 

[gordonthemoron]

it's great in the Lounge after dark. I was under the impression that it went opaque automatically in tunnels

 

[jaapstam]

it's great in the Lounge after dark. I was under the impression that it went opaque automatically in tunnels

The screen in the lounge can be switched opaque (I've never heard this word before - thanks a lot!) by the driver. It also gets blank automatically if the train doesn't get electricity supply (which happens on certain short sections of the network (technical reason, don't ask me for details in English please ).

I did hear, that it also turns opaque automatically if the driver does an emergency break, as the reason for the break could be a person standing on the tracks and you doesn't want to force passengers to follow the scenery. But this myth was never confirmed nor denied to me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As I was asked about the introduction of the ICE 4 and mentioned that it would be baptized in Berlin today, here are, unfortunately in German, some facts about the train for those who are interested:

http://www.deutschebahn.com/de/bahnwelt/start_ice4/das_projekt_ice4/ice4_technische_daten.html

http://www.deutschebahn.com/de/pres...medienpaket_ice4.html?start=0&itemsPerPage=10

 

[AlexNL]

A while ago I rode an ICE from Frankfurt to Köln, I sat just behind the rear cab - the screen was transparent. The view was great.