DB HTE Class 66s

[ac6000cw]

From what I understand the class 60 is a far superior loco for heavy haulage, but the Mirrlees power unit is not as robust as the agricultural EMD.

What is 'agricultural' about the EMD 710 diesel engine? It's a similar design vintage to the Mirrlees unit in the class 60 (and some of the later build 66s meet the tighter stage IIIA emissions requirements).

I’m not qualified to answer that, but it’s a rumour from several drivers at different depots, it may just be that, a rumour.
But have heard many drivers say the 66/6 are not up to the job they have been altered for.

Just changing the gearing won't turn a 66 into a 59 or a 60 - the 66s have lower rated traction motors and alternators than a 59, and the 60s have more advanced per-axle electronic wheelslip control versus the alternator-based (and hence whole-loco) electronic wheelslip control on the 59s and 66s.

 

[Wyrleybart]

What is 'agricultural' about the EMD 710 diesel engine? It's a similar design vintage to the Mirrlees unit in the class 60 (and some of the later build 66s meet the tighter stage IIIA emissions requirements).

Exactly. Just like a farm tractor the EMD power unit just keeps going and going. The reason why John Smith decided to invest in the class 69 project, and why GBRf have got hold of every single 66 they can from Europe

 

[TonyW66]

To save me searching, has this programme been cancelled or suspended now ? I read somewhere that DB are not impressed 'so far' with performance etc, but i've not seen anything from DB themselves or reliable info either. Thanks

 

[The_Train]

To save me searching, has this programme been cancelled or suspended now ? I read somewhere that DB are not impressed 'so far' with performance etc, but i've not seen anything from DB themselves or reliable info either. Thanks

I think it is just a lot of hearsay at the moment. Until someone spots DB employees digging out the demic 60s from the forest of Toton, things are to be taken with a pinch of salt I think

 

[Trainman40083]

I think it is just a lot of hearsay at the moment. Until someone spots DB employees digging out the demic 60s from the forest of Toton, things are to be taken with a pinch of salt I think

One might suspect that IF any class 60s were to be reinstated, then it would be the ones last withdrawn.

 

[The_Train]

One might suspect that IF any class 60s were to be reinstated, then it would be the ones last withdrawn.

You know what, you might be right there

 

[Trainman40083]

You know what, you might be right there

Best keep an eye on them, in case they get shunted about.

 

[45076]

I think it is just a lot of hearsay at the moment. Until someone spots DB employees digging out the demic 60s from the forest of Toton, things are to be taken with a pinch of salt I think

I have been told by a DB fitter that it is definitely on the cards, the 66/6 programme has not delivered as expected because the power delivery is not easy to control and the locos slip to easily. 5 class 60's will be reinstated.

 

[800001]

Might be worth a thread in speculative thread, unless anyone else knows more factual info, but heard from inside sources at GBRF that they are also now regearing 8 x 66s with option for another 4 to be done, and to be renumbered into 66/6 series.

 

[littledude]

Might be worth a thread in speculative thread, unless anyone else knows more factual info, but heard from inside sources at GBRF that they are also now regearing 8 x 66s with option for another 4 to be done, and to be renumbered into 66/6 series.

This has been on the cards for a long time. The conversion kits were ordered by EMD last summer. Re-numbering is broadly ‘number minus 100’ with a couple of exceptions. I’m sure numbers will be made public soon.

 

[ExRes]

One might suspect that IF any class 60s were to be reinstated, then it would be the ones last withdrawn.

Which would be 011/017/024/062/074 which are the only five not to have been tendered for sale, hopefully any return to service for 062 would be strictly conditional on the removal of that hideous mess of vinyl

 

[31160]

Which would be 011/017/024/062/074 which are the only five not to have been tendered for sale, hopefully any return to service for 062 would be strictly conditional on the removal of that hideous mess of vinyl

Fully agreed there sir,it's bloody awful

 

[Trainman40083]

Looks like GBRF are also to renumber some 66s into the 66/6 series too. Maybe the title will change from DB to cover the other operators.

 

[Dood75]

First renumber on TOPS of the GB variety...66689 has appeared, which appears to be the ex 66779 as that seems to have disappeared

 

[Rail Quest]

Existing thread for the GBRf HTE conversions: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gbrf-class-66-re-gearing.285993/

 

[D365]

Drivers have generally preferred class 60s over class 66s as well.

This doesn’t surprise me. Even putting aside the electronic capability of the 60s, which is unsurpassed by other diesels of its generation, the cab environment is far better.

 

[37114]

This doesn’t surprise me. Even putting aside the electronic capability of the 60s, which is unsurpassed by other diesels of its generation, the cab environment is far better.

True. Let's see if rumours of 60062 being out on test soon turn out to be true

 

[Class15]

True. Let's see if rumours of 60062 being out on test soon turn out to be true

Here’s hoping it gets a repaint!

 

[JKF]

Has there been any further news on this program, or is 66660 going to have been the last to appear? Will 658 ever escape the confines of Toton? 657 has been active in South Wales this week after time on other pastures so hoping to catch that one soon.

 

[Trainman40083]

Has there been any further news on this program, or is 66660 going to have been the last to appear? Will 658 ever escape the confines of Toton? 657 has been active in South Wales this week after time on other pastures so hoping to catch that one soon.

There was a suggestion they might reinstate 60s instead. I did wonder why 66658 never appeared.

 

[DBS92042]

There was a suggestion they might reinstate 60s instead. I did wonder why 66658 never appeared.

All of the remaining 'running' 60s (besides 60011 for some reason) have been moved to the WQDA pool, so that's looking increasingly unlikely unfortunately

 

[JKF]

657 finally turned up on the Portbury steel train today, allowing me to update the bingo card:



(Image shows thumbnails of HTE class 66s working Portbury steel trains as a grid in numerical order, with only 658 missing)

Only 658 hasn’t had a go on this working, and is reportedly only used for shunting in Toton yard, all it has done since conversion. Rumours are of it being broken in some way but nobody had elaborated! Does anyone know what the story is with this and whether it will ever get fixed up and escape the confines of the yard?

The Portbury steel traffic was supposed to have gone over to GBRF, which it did for a while, with an interruption due to wagon issues, but DBC have continued to work trains also.

 

[David51ch]

This has been discussed on the DB Class 60 withdrawal thread recently but DB have confirmed they are converting several of their Class 66 locos to have a higher tractive effort, allowing them to fully replace the Class 60s. With the tugs already seemingly withdrawn, DB have confirmed via a post on Facebook that the conversion work has started:

5.5K views · 151 reactions | Our colleagues at Toton have started work regearing ten Class 66 locomotives to give them a higher tractive effort. This will ensure they can pull some of our heavier traffic and will enable us to continue phasing out ou

Our colleagues at Toton have started work regearing ten Class 66 locomotives to give them a higher tractive effort. This will ensure they can pull some of our heavier traffic and will enable us to...

www.facebook.com

[link redirects to Facebook post by DB Cargo UK that refers to the work on regearing class 66s has begun in Toton]

I thought I'd create a new thread for this to track the locomotives being regeared and entered into service, as well as hopefully getting some technical info about the new tractive effort of these locomotives (IE if the locos are literally just gonna be same spec as Freightliner Class 66/6s which looks likely given the new numbers and 66/6 being written on the side of traction equipment in the DB Cargo UK video linked above).

The locomotives to be converted are (according to a previous post in the DB Class 60 withdrawal fleet):


This table hopefully can be used to track the conversions though of course loco numbers can be swapped out if locos earmarked for the conversion are changed.

Locomotive	Converted from	Status
66651	66221	Converted, In service
66652	66164	Converted, In service
66653	66194	Converted, In service
66654	66149	Converted, In service
66655	66167	Converted, In service
66656	66156	Converted, In service
66657	66183	Converted, In service
66658	66147	Converted, In service
66659	66171	Converted, In service
66660	66161	Converted, In service
66661
66662
66663
66664
66665

Taken today, 66659 hauling 1248 Lackenby - Scunthorpe (6D05) at Thornaby

 

[Adrian Barr]

Only 658 hasn’t had a go on this working, and is reportedly only used for shunting in Toton yard, all it has done since conversion. Rumours are of it being broken in some way but nobody had elaborated! Does anyone know what the story is with this and whether it will ever get fixed up and escape the confines of the yard?

66658 now appears to be undergoing maintenance at Toton, and could finally be released into the wild this month with a bit of luck...

I believe it had some kind of fault that kept it confined to the yard (possibly a hangover from its long period in store before conversion to a 66/6) and may have been waiting for further work to be authorised, I don't know the exact details. It did a couple of light engine test runs to Doncaster and back after conversion and perhaps those revealed some issue with it which wasn't a straightforward fix.

 

[Adrian Barr]

66658 worked 6E02 12:30 Toton - Boston (empties), 6M07 18:58 Boston - Wolverhampton (steel coil) yesterday, and returned to Toton this morning on 6E03 10:05 from Wolverhampton.

I think these were test runs and it's not been fully released into the wild yet, but it's encouraging.

There are schedules for DB trains to Portbury next week (6Z56 / 6Z57) so perhaps the stars will align and 66658 will make it there at some point this year...

 

[JKF]

66658 worked 6E02 12:30 Toton - Boston (empties), 6M07 18:58 Boston - Wolverhampton (steel coil) yesterday, and returned to Toton this morning on 6E03 10:05 from Wolverhampton.

I think these were test runs and it's not been fully released into the wild yet, but it's encouraging.

There are schedules for DB trains to Portbury next week (6Z56 / 6Z57) so perhaps the stars will align and 66658 will make it there at some point this year...

Fingers crossed! There’s been no GBRF trains for the last two weeks (nice of them to coordinate this break with my annual overseas holiday!). I’m guessing a boat must have come in and it’ll be busy next week.

 

[Adrian Barr]

66658 is on 6Z56 to Portbury this morning.

After working 6M07 Boston - Wolverhampton coils on 15/08 and 18/08, it worked 6E08 Wolverhampton - Immingham empties on 19/08, 6M35 Humber - Kingsbury tanks on 20/08 and 21/08, 6M99 Immingham - Wolverhampton steel coils on 21/08 (Tata traffic) then 6V88 Wolverhampton - Margam empties on 22/08. It worked 6H25 Margam to Llanwern and 6H26 return yesterday too.

 

[JKF]

66658 is on 6Z56 to Portbury this morning.

After working 6M07 Boston - Wolverhampton coils on 15/08 and 18/08, it worked 6E08 Wolverhampton - Immingham empties on 19/08, 6M35 Humber - Kingsbury tanks on 20/08 and 21/08, 6M99 Immingham - Wolverhampton steel coils on 21/08 (Tata traffic) then 6V88 Wolverhampton - Margam empties on 22/08. It worked 6H25 Margam to Llanwern and 6H26 return yesterday too.

Sod’s Law that it chose the day when I’m away on a long weekend up the Wye Valley. Fingers crossed it makes another turn this week so I can finally get it on the bingo card!

 

[Tinsley 1976]

It's on Robertson to Westerleigh oil tanks 2day

 

[JKF]

It's on Robertson to Westerleigh oil tanks 2day

on the return working too, so won’t be on the steels today either as it wouldn’t be back in time.

I think the oil trains require an HTE loco whereas the steel is fine with a regular loco, I think the issues when the Portbury workings started last autumn was down to the railhead conditions coming out of the docks which I believe had been dealt with.