DB and ICE - not an enjoyable journey

[j0hn0]

As some of you will know, i travelled back to the UK on thursday by ICE, Eurostar and Pendo and the differences were quite shocking.

a) DB oversold the train and so from Köln we were 10 minutes late leaving as there were seat arguments all the way along
b) A really nasty atmosphere in the coaches as belgian travellers racially abused the german conductor who was of course just doing his job.

and

c) The most uncomfortable seats on all long distance trains are on the Siemens Velaro - Having mentioned on this forum that I thought it was the Eurostar that had uncomfortable seats, I hold my hands up and say that it was actually the Velaro which gave me chronic bum ache. No matter whether I reclined or not, put my feet on the rests or not, really horrible pain all the way.

so

Sitting on the Eurostar was bliss after that, was in coach 1 (powered) and so felt all the acceleration and braking quite well. A really lovely journey on the Eurostar.

Then back in the UK, onto a pendo and up to Rugby. Again, really comfortable, no bum ache and a lovely journey.

so my question is....

has anyone else travelled long distance on a velaro and felt this pain?

 

[gordonthemoron]

ICE3's have the best seats of all the ICE series trains, although the leather ones in first class are a bit slippy. The ones in ICETs and ICEDs are similar to those in ICE3s but without the footrest and the seat bottom doesn't extend

back to uncomfortable DB trains, they're using a new type of EMU on the Munich-Augsburg regional trains (called the Fugger Express), the seats themselves are like the ones on the newer s-bahns, which is bad enough, however the trains have even worse legroom

 

[j0hn0]

ICE3's have the best seats of all the ICE series trains, although the leather ones in first class are a bit slippy. The ones in ICETs and ICEDs are similar to those in ICE3s but without the footrest and the seat bottom doesn't extend

back to uncomfortable DB trains, they're using a new type of EMU on the Munich-Augsburg regional trains (called the Fugger Express), the seats themselves are like the ones on the newer s-bahns, which is bad enough, however the trains have even worse legroom

It seems as if the back of the seats are at the wrong angle, there is no point in having the padded head rest as there was no comfortable position from which i could rest my head on it. Never been able to afford 1st on an ICE, but I don't like leather seats anyway The seats are fine for a quick jaunt down to Frankfurt but similar to a trip to Amsterdam, the seats just don't agree with me when I am longer on the train than an hour.

Fugger Express, only in Germany S-Bahn seats really are bad, took an EC from Köln to Frankfurt too (classic line) and we were basically sitting on sprung boards!

I just don't want everyone to think that all things about german railways are great, they aren't and in many ways, are a fair bit behind us.

 

[gordonthemoron]

The other thing about DB, is the 'high speed lines'. What DB have done is build new lines to relieve bottlenecks, i.e. Ingolstadt-Nürnberg, Stuttgart-Mannheim, Frankfurt Airport-Cologne.

Whilst the trains are very fast on these sections (up to 330 km/h), the trains also have to run for part of their journey on classic lines. For instance, the ICET from Munich-Berlin can run at up to 230 km/h between Ingolstadt & Nürnberg but it averages only 100 km/h between Nürnberg & Leipzig (which takes 3 hours)

 

[j0hn0]

So true, it is why I am pleased the HS2 proposals include links into the centre of cities.

It takes far too long to get out of Frankfurt to the Flughafen fernbahnhof, similarly with getting into and out of Köln.

 

[gordonthemoron]

neither of those trips are as bad as the s-bahn from Munich to the airport, 40 mins from Hbf

 

[LE Greys]

ICE is at least an integrated part of the system rather than a high-speed line in splendid isolation. TGVs always look a bit lost when they venture off the dedicated routes, and AVEs don't at all (although they are in a broad gauge country. Given the choice, I'd rather have an ICE-type system than a TGV-type one.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I'm not criticizing DB for their approach, it's just aswell to be aware that ICEs do not always travel at high speed.

Once the Nürnberg-Erfurt-Leipzig high speed line is complete, Munich-Berlin will be a lot quicker. However, the building works still seem to have some way to go. Also, ICEs between Munich & Augsburg will benefit when the 4 tracking is finished

 

[jopsuk]

Spain is starting to convert the existing network to Standard gauge. The AVE network was built as Standard in order to simplify matters when it gets connected to the the rest of Europe, with the French extending the LGV network to meet it.
The Shinkansen network is completely separate from the main network, barring interchanges, limited dual gauge tracks and the Mini-Shinkansen

 

[LE Greys]

If any train always travelled at high speed, then it would not be much use to the passengers. Real Flying Dutchman.