Daughter issued with penalty fare by SouthEastern

[BlockBackBobby]

Hi, I just dropped back in to read any updates... I don't think I will go around in circles again replying to specific posts other than to make a few points which seem to continually be errr "misinterpreted" (or ignored):

* Referring with hindsight to page 18 of the second 36 page T&Cs out of a set of 3, does not make rules about having a ticket before travel obvious (as the inspector himself stated!) - the simple fact is that thetrainline.com does NOT clearly state you need to print the ticket before travel when you buy. If you disagree with this I would recommend you read through the entirety of your 85 page Apple agreement to check that you are allowed to disagree with a public post using an Apple product... are you sure you're allowed to...?

* Furthermore it is not a mandatory requirement to print a ticket before travel if you have an eTicket. That's the whole point and that alone makes it confusing. Today's youth in particular expect (a) eTickets in general (why print something that can be displayed on a phone? Everything is done with QR codes now), and (b) expect an app to be consistent - if last time they bought a train ticket from an app it gave them an eTicket, why would they possibly expect it to be different the next time?

* My daughter's experience of commuting to school on the trains was not in "rural Devon", it was SWT in Surrey - neither start nor end stations had barriers at all, they were both open stations. My experience of 20 years of people buying tickets on trains (when deliberately not having a ticket half the time) was also on SWT in and out of London. Trying to make out this is all down to "backwards people from the countryside" is not the case and not very helpful to understanding that 99.99% of people aren't experts in train regulations.

* However anecdotally, my daughter was on the trains in deepest darkest rural Devon this weekend - no barriers at Exton (request stop), Exmouth or Paignton. No Signs about penalty fares. Used thetrainline.com app and got an eTicket again (same as every other time apart from Gillingham!) - staff checked tickets on board and some passengers asked for and paid for their tickets then and there, no issues. Shrug, what are the rules to the average person if you don't read 100+ pages of T&Cs?

* To the 2 people who think £20 isn't worth the time to post on this forum (but then posted on this forum), I'm very pleased you are so wealthy that £20 means nothing to you - this cost my daughter/me £41 in total, we would be delighted to accept your offer of donations of £20 each as the amount is so meaningless to you

It’s just £20 mate, not worth the time effort or stress. Pay it lesson learnt. You say your daughter has autism them presumably she is entitled to benefits? If she isn’t receiving them maybe that’s the battle you should be fighting not this one.
Start a go fund me and I’ll happily give you a fiver.

 

[yorkie]

* To the 2 people who think £20 isn't worth the time to post on this forum (but then posted on this forum), I'm very pleased you are so wealthy that £20 means nothing to you ....

Sorry if you are unhappy with the advice; if anyone has any concerns regarding any forum post I would encourage the use of the report button to let us know.

Unfortunately there are mutiple several issues at play here:

Firstly, what is the legal position in relation to the Penalty Fare and what is the best course of action to rectify the situation or limit the damages?

Secondly there is the matter of whether it is reasonable for someone to be confused (this is subjective but there is a strong case to be made) and there is the matter of the rights and wrongs of the Penalty Fare legislation, train company policies, the relevant laws and conditions etc. But this is a moral argument that does not actualy help your case and is really very separate to the matter of obtaining advice on how to proceed.

There is also a whole new topic about e-tickets in general; I strongly believe that e-tickets should be available for all flows, but that is a discussion for another thread and indeed we have had a few on this subject.

If anyone is replying to any thread in this forum section we do ask that any advice given is accurate, constructive and relevant.

The thread spans multiple discussions but it is not feasible for us to split the thread at this stage as it is all intertwined and it would be too time consuming.

If anyone has any questions or concerns please do contact us (and if it relates to a particular post, please do so using the report button) thanks

 

[island]

* My daughter's experience of commuting to school on the trains was not in "rural Devon", it was SWT in Surrey - neither start nor end stations had barriers at all, they were both open stations.

All of the SWR stations in Surrey are Penalty Fares stations and have a requirement to buy before boarding; the presence or non-presence of ticket gates is irrelevant.

My experience of 20 years of people buying tickets on trains (when deliberately not having a ticket half the time) was also on SWT in and out of London.

That was then and this is now.

Trying to make out this is all down to "backwards people from the countryside" is not the case and not very helpful to understanding that 99.99% of people aren't experts in train regulations.

99% of people using trains in London and the south east know that they need to buy a ticket before boarding, and plentiful signage is in place at Gillingham (Kent) and other stations to make this clear for the small minority who don’t. Being an “expert in train regulations” isn’t a prerequisite to travelling by train.

If the Penalty Fare, which was correctly issued, has not yet been paid I would strongly urge you to settle the matter before additional non-refundable administration fees are incurred.

 

[[.n]]

I can't speak for SWR in Surrey, but certainly at other SWR stations whilst being in PF areas, there is still very much an acceptance/culture of a lot of people buying tickets on board - yes there is no doubt an element of "free travel" involved, but by and large from my perspective its fairly normal - most stations have no ticket office, ticket machines when available have been rubbish / sited in odd places, the extra TOD collection points in at least one station are only available in the often closed ticket office (so basically pointless).

I'm not saying its "correct" but just a reflection on how things really are, the only change I 've noticed is that actually now more and more people are buying tickets from apps as that's now become easier.