Dating Railway Photos

[Andy873]

I'm curious about what tactics (if that's the right word) people use for dating railway photos?

One photo of a goods yard wasn't easy, however there were various clues such as the travelling crane had gone (which I know happened in 1956). Also I remember reading about a person who worked in a mill maintaining and running the mill's steam engine, he states quite clearly that in 1960 one cotton mill swapped over to electric motors and it proved such a cost saving that by the mid 1960's almost all the factories had followed rendering the old steam engines obsolete. This was important as none of the mill chimneys are showing smoke from them although it's clearly a week day as the goods yard wasn't worked at the weekend.

One thing I missed at the top right was what I though was a hill but something didn't look right about it, later I found out it was a large spoil dump from an opencast coal mine, the mine was opened in the late 1950's and active until the mid 1960's. Fortunately I had already dated this photo as circa 1963 which would have given time for this large spoil heap to accumulate - it just shows that you have to look at everything from leaves on trees, advertising, railway vehicles and so on...

What other details can help us date photos?

 

[StephenHunter]

Any cars present can help, as our registration plate system is based on year.

 

[ThirteenArches]

Registration plate included date only after 1963/ 1964. "Number first" 6 digit plates started in the 1950s, variably depending on area. A good knowledge of car model dates can be useful (which I haven't got, though I know a Jowett Javelin when I see one), but all of these of course only give a terminus post.

 

[Gloster]

As said cars or buses: ‘if that is a Mark 1 Cortina, then the photo isn’t earlier than (hasty consultation of Wikipedia) 1962’.
Advertising of products: ‘Snibbo was put on the market in (hasty look at Wikipedia or Graces Guide) 1963’.
Clothing styles: ‘several dolly-birds in minis, so that makes it about (no need to consult for this) 1965 to 1970.’
Railway item: ‘the Buggleskelly branch was reduced to single-track in (lengthy search through books) May 1967’, but the second track is still there and reasonably weed-free, so probably second-half of 1967.
What’s that in the background? A big crowd outside the town hill? Search through the internet and it was opened in September 1967: is that the opening ceremony? (But you are lucky if you get anything as exact as that.)
And we know that steam ended in that area in October 1967, so that gives us more information.

Basically you need to find all the odd details that when put together give you a terminus pro quem and a terminus ante quem.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Registration plate included date only after 1963/ 1964.

True, but a handy reference is LR Newall's "History of Motor Vehicle Registration in the United Kingdom" which gives the date of first issue (usually the month) of every one- two- and three- letter combination. So, for instance, if a vehicle with registration No 123 ABC is in the picture, it must have been taken no earlier than September 1960

 

[Mag_seven]

I suppose the older the photo the more difficult - if its a BR era photo then things like livery details details can help.

 

[30907]

I suppose the older the photo the more difficult - if its a BR era photo then things like livery details details can help.

As of course can the actual locos and rolling stock (if any).

 

[contrex]

Registration plate included date only after 1963/ 1964. "Number first" 6 digit plates started in the 1950s, variably depending on area. A good knowledge of car model dates can be useful (which I haven't got, though I know a Jowett Javelin when I see one), but all of these of course only give a terminus post.

My uncle's 1954 Wolseley 4/44 was 2321 E (Staffordshire).

 

[Rescars]

Anything and everything in the picture can help. Mostly it's a combination of details which make it possible to narrow down the time window. Occasionally you can strike lucky, especially if the photo includes a loco which is known to have only very rarely worked in the location in question.

 

[Andy873]

Any cars present can help, as our registration plate system is based on year.

Registration plate included date only after 1963/ 1964. "Number first" 6 digit plates started in the 1950s, variably depending on area. A good knowledge of car model dates can be useful (which I haven't got, though I know a Jowett Javelin when I see one), but all of these of course only give a terminus post.

As said cars or buses: ‘if that is a Mark 1 Cortina, then the photo isn’t earlier than (hasty consultation of Wikipedia) 1962’.

The car reg number was one tactic I tried as one photo I have shows a van and I can read the plate. However I realised that this was only telling me when the van was registered and not any confirmation of the year the photo was taken.

Anything and everything in the picture can help. Mostly it's a combination of details which make it possible to narrow down the time window. Occasionally you can strike lucky, especially if the photo includes a loco which is known to have only very rarely worked in the location in question.

Yes, any number of things put together can certainly give you an approximate year / period.

Using the above method we employ (knowingly or otherwise) something I know as the "binary chop". I will give two examples of it in use, one to guess a number and the other a railway example...

Example 1:

I ask you to think of a number between 1 and 100 (but you keep this to yourself).
Now there are two ways for me to get the number you thought of, in this case (and for no reason let's pick 73). I can ask you potentially up to 100 questions like this...

Is it 1? No. Is it 2? No. Is it 3? No, and so on until I get to 73.

If we employ the binary chop we need only a handful of questions each time chopping the range (1 to 100) into two...

Is it between 1 and 50? No. I now know your number is between 51 and 100 and now we chop the range (51 to 100) by half again or thereabouts.

Is it between 51 and 75? Yes. And so on... with only a few questions I can work out the number is 73.

Example 2, a railway photo:

I'll pick a photo of one station I know quite a lot of detail about, the photo shows a group of passengers on the Up platform. Now I can see the footbridge linking the two platforms which was installed in 1901, and the last passengers were in 1964, so I have my initial range 1901 - 1964.

The photo shows all the advertising has gone as regular passenger trains finished at the end of 1957 as too did the water column which went the same time, so the range now changes to 1958 - 1964.

Before I did the above, I initially looked at the clothes the passengers were wearing and came to a guess at mid to late 1950's to early '60s which ties in with the above range. I could now if I wanted to just go half way (roughly) and pick 1961. that's still only a guess but a close one. By the way, the "guess the number" game is a good party trick!

Clothing styles: ‘several dolly-birds in minis, so that makes it about (no need to consult for this) 1965 to 1970.’

Yes absolutely, as shown in the railway example above, and we'd all be wise to take note of clothing styles.

As of course can the actual locos and rolling stock (if any).

That's always a good pointer however my knowledge of them is not that good, but if it's a tool you have to hand, use it for sure.

Railway item: ‘the Buggleskelly branch was reduced to single-track in (lengthy search through books) May 1967’, but the second track is still there and reasonably weed-free, so probably second-half of 1967.

Railway items - Station name signs can be a good indicator but we must take care with them. For example, one station I know was demolished in 1967 still with its LMS name signs, the new BR totem signs were delivered but never installed.

Did the station have new electric lights installed? if so, can you track a date down?

All this of course would be needless if only more people taking these precious photos actually told us the date!

What about the colour stations were painted? Although most of the photos in my collection are B/W, I have a couple of genuine colour ones. One from 1965 during a station's demolition and one from 2009 long after the branch closed. The second photo is of a railway bridge over a road with a faded STA from the word STATION on it, however both of these are a faded maroon colour. Both from the same branch line in the BR London Midland region - was this a BR colour or simply the LMS colour?

 

[eastwestdivide]

One caveat of using locos or rolling stock and their known or typical allocations and workings is that unusual and rare workings were more likely to be photographed than everyday ones

 

[norbitonflyer]

My uncle's 1954 Wolseley 4/44 was 2321 E (Staffordshire).

Staffordshire was the very first to issue reverse-format marks, starting with "E" in 1953. It was unusual, as most licencing authorities issued reverse three-letter marks first, only resorting to one- and two-letter marks when they ran out of three-letter marks.

 

[contrex]

Staffordshire was the very first to issue reverse-format marks, starting with "E" in 1953. It was unusual, as most licencing authorities issued reverse three-letter marks first, only resorting to one- and two-letter marks when they ran out of three-letter marks.

My uncle was manager of Reginald Tildesley in Walsall, a Ford main dealer, but he had lots of contacts in the motor trade. His next car was a new Consul Classic, and after that a Corsair V4. I don't recall the numbers!

 

[Gloster]

With rolling-stock you do sometimes need specialist knowledge or sources, but some is fairly basic.

The livery carried, which could change within the lifetime of an item, at least can give a starting point. For example, the small yellow panels on the ends of diesel locos seem to have only started appearing in 1961. The numbering can help, either of the individual loco, if renumbered, or the system used. If you know the individual locos identity and have either the knowledge or the books, you can sometimes add to it: ‘still got its 3,500 gallon tender, so no later than May 1959, but it has BR AWS, which was only fitted in June 1957’. I recently helped tie the date of a photo down to a (likely) few weeks (after a certain amount of searching through books) because of the condition of the paintwork.

When it comes to things like loco allocations, one has to be a little more careful. There was a recent example where the loco had a visible shedplate, but other details and subsequent information didn’t fit. Unless the widely available information on the loco’s transfers were wrong, it seem that the loco was still carrying its old shedplate several months after departing from its old shed.

Carriages and wagons can also help, but other than general points about introduction, transfer, withdrawal and livery, you are getting into a rather specialised area. That said, I was once able to give a terminus post quem by identifying, after a certain amount of searching, the earliest date an inscription on the side of a wagon could have been applied.