Data feeds to Journey Planners

[TheManOnThe172]

Can anyone help me understand the effort required for an operator to feed Google Maps in addition to other journey planners?

My local (subsidised) service, 172 Matlock-Bakewell was always listed on all the platforms I tried when run by Hulleys. But replacement operator Andrews have never managed this - and requests to them and to EMCCA (who now control the contract) have not produced any result. (Example: a search on Stanton-in-Peak to Matlock lists itineraries involving a 40 minute walk to the A6 but not the direct Andrews 172 services from the village).

The 172 services ARE listed on Traveline and on the Stagecoach site. So I presume that there are at least two data feeds, and that Andrews are only supplying one of these.

Is it a big deal for an operator who is feeding data to one system also to feed others?

And would a normal contract for a subsidised service require an operator to feed all mainstream platforms?

 

[Dwarfer1979]

An operator only really has to supply data to the BODs system, it is not their responsibility to ensure any third party takes that data off BODs, so as long as they have correctly uploaded it to BODs it is out of their hands. Whilst I can't see why an organisation like Google wouldn't universally update regularly I also do know that we have spotted multiple errors on our services with stops not correctly showing services calling that are shown as such in our data so there does seem to be issues somewhere with how the data flows through. There is data for Andrews up in BODs, the current set dating back to October, it would take a bit more time than I can dedicate to see if there are any real issues with their data that was meaning it wasn't feeding through to 3rd party suppliers.

There is an issue that there is no real requirement on 3rd party organisations, like these journey planner suppliers, to actually ensure their data is up to date or accurate and comprehensive - the DfT response was that they would be getting complaints about it if it is wrong but in our experience users complain to operators about errors in 3rd party data supplies and refuse to accept there is nothing we can do about it (at least once a month we get someone telling us to tell Google to correct some error that has emerged).

Not sure how Traveline data works, it used to be that councils managed that data themselves from the registrations so would be a seperate feed to the operator supplying via BODs but again not in the control of the operator - it would make sense to run this of BODs now but not sure if it has switched.

It wouldn't particularly be specified in a contract, Open Data is a legal requirement for operating bus services so whether it is commercial or supported, specified in a contract or not, the operator should be doing so.

 

[markymark2000]

Can anyone help me understand the effort required for an operator to feed Google Maps in addition to other journey planners?

I'm not sure if anyone can provide new information but in 2014 (and I believe still may be the case) data to Google Maps was being provided by ItoWorld. ItoWorld collect the data in from various sources before sending it to Google. (https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/busines...specialist-ito-world-google-maps-app-upgrade/).

I know though there are issues ongoing which when investigated, ItoWorld has claimed that they are sending the right data to Google Maps but then Google Maps is doing it's own thing and changing the data. Not a clue what Google get out of changing data that it's given, but it is something that they do.

There is data for Andrews up in BODs, the current set dating back to October, it would take a bit more time than I can dedicate to see if there are any real issues with their data that was meaning it wasn't feeding through to 3rd party suppliers.

There are issues with the data which are forever being ignored (thanks to their top of the range supplier known as Transmach who don't like fixing issues) but nothing that stops it feeding to 3rd party suppliers. Bustimes uses Andrews BODS data for example.

Not sure how Traveline data works, it used to be that councils managed that data themselves from the registrations so would be a seperate feed to the operator supplying via BODs but again not in the control of the operator - it would make sense to run this of BODs now but not sure if it has switched.

Traveline are still 99% using data given to it by councils. According to their service report (available to data users who download their files), the only operators where data isn't coming from local authorities are Reading Buses (and it's subsidiaries), Stagecoach and Nottingham City Transport.

To be fair, as someone who has a lot of dealings with BODS data, I wouldn't trust it either in many operators cases. There's very few companies who actually monitor BODS data properly, but the issue is that even the good companies are facing regular issues it seems with routes disappearing in the BODS system. The original source sends the data to BODS then BODS somehow just removes random routes and spits back out the remaining.

 

[kernowbususer]

Traveline in the South West do not solely take data from Local Authorities, the majority of data is built from Electronic Bus Service Registrations data from operators directly with local authorities filling the gaps for operators still using paper based registrations.

The perception that local authorities provide the majority of Traveline data is outdated

 

[markymark2000]

Traveline in the South West do not solely take data from Local Authorities, the majority of data is built from Electronic Bus Service Registrations data from operators directly with local authorities filling the gaps for operators still using paper based registrations.

The perception that local authorities provide the majority of Traveline data is outdated

Discussion that I and others have had with local authorities, operators and even National PTI still suggest that local authorities are responsible for the majority of the data, away from the few major operators and so that is why I say that a lot of data is coming from local authorities still.
I also note that the Traveline ServiceReport which states for the SW area, only First and Stagecoach data is coming from the operator, and the rest is coming from local authorities. If that is incorrect, I'd certainly encourage LAs to get that sorted with Traveline as it's not fair on local authorities to get any blame or credit for data if it's down to EBSR.

 

[Sealink]

Does anyone know why Traveline has been rebranded "National Public Transport Information" - noticed this for the South West and South, while in other regions such a the North East it remains branded Traveline, as does the main Traveline webite.
Web addresses appear unchanged, although I suppose that is to be expected if there is a transition.

 

[markymark2000]

Does anyone know why Traveline has been rebranded "National Public Transport Information"

This only affects Traveline South West. Officially Traveline South West has always been National Public Transport Information (more commonly known as National PTI) but public facing it was just branded as Traveline South West. I'm not sure why they have moved away from the Traveline South West brand, but this change has been made to their app, and they also have a separate website which is the same as Traveline South West but rebranded (https://www.nationalpti.co.uk/).

It'd be interesting to hear who made the decision for NPTI to no longer come under Traveline South West and why, but who knows if those details will be made public.

 

[Joe Paxton]

This only affects Traveline South West. Officially Traveline South West has always been National Public Transport Information (more commonly known as National PTI) but public facing it was just branded as Traveline South West. I'm not sure why they have moved away from the Traveline South West brand, but this change has been made to their app, and they also have a separate website which is the same as Traveline South West but rebranded (https://www.nationalpti.co.uk/).

It'd be interesting to hear who made the decision for NPTI to no longer come under Traveline South West and why, but who knows if those details will be made public.

By contrast Companies House records suggest that National Public Transport Information Ltd hasn't always been named as such, but rather only took on the name om 25 August 2019 - beforehand its name was South West Public Transport Information from 2000 when it was first established.

Reading between the lines of their About Us page, I wonder if they've renamed themselves for wider commercial reasons, i.e. to appeal to third parties as the PT data aggregator and supplier of choice?

 

[markymark2000]

By contrast Companies House records suggest that National Public Transport Information Ltd hasn't always been named as such, but rather only took on the name om 25 August 2019 - beforehand its name was South West Public Transport Information from 2000 when it was first established.

Apologies. I've always known it as as NPTI. (Side note, I thought I had caveated that section in my post, seems I forgot to add it back in when I rewrote the post)

Reading between the lines of their About Us page, I wonder if they've renamed themselves for wider commercial reasons, i.e. to appeal to third parties as the PT data aggregator and supplier of choice?

The about us page does make me giggle.
"pride ourselves in providing unbiased, comprehensive and accurate public transport journey information"..... There should be a strong caveat on this claim that it doesn't apply to independent operators in Wiltshire whereby the data has more holes in it than a sieve. Ongoing debacle for well over a year whereby both NPTI and Wiltshire Council admit that the data for the specific operators are within their control, but refuse to fix the MANY issues.

 

[Sealink]

This only affects Traveline South West. Officially Traveline South West has always been National Public Transport Information (more commonly known as National PTI) but public facing it was just branded as Traveline South West. I'm not sure why they have moved away from the Traveline South West brand, but this change has been made to their app, and they also have a separate website which is the same as Traveline South West but rebranded (https://www.nationalpti.co.uk/).

It'd be interesting to hear who made the decision for NPTI to no longer come under Traveline South West and why, but who knows if those details will be made public.

TravelineSouthEast has been rebranded too.

EDIT: I have answered my own question from the Traveline "About Us" website, which Joe Paxton mentioned above.
National Public Transport Information Ltd (originally South West PTI), is the not-for-profit company set up by local authorities and bus operators in the south west of England to implement and operate the enquiry service across the wider south west (including Hampshire & the Solent area, Oxfordshire, Bedfordshire and Suffolk).

Meanwhile TravelineEastAnglia seems to be a private tour company.

Odd to rebrand SouthEast and SouthWest as "National" when no other Traveline is rebranded.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 May 2026 ==

I did get a reply, "Traveline Information Limited, has asked all English regions not to use Traveline branding on their own websites..."