Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
“Meet the person ultimately responsible for your safety” No picture beneath the wording - simply a mirror. Something that people seem very keen to forget.
So the passenger should have gone and found the grit box and done it themselves?
Obviously people need to take personal responsibility, but that doesn’t remove the accountability - and often legal duty - for organisations to provide a safe environment for their customers (passengers). To say otherwise is ridiculous.
However, by 11 pm, after enduring a full day of relentless sleet and plummeting temperatures, that specific area of Leeds train station had become extremely hazardous.
In which case the fault will lie with the forecasting - which predicted very cold but dry weather yesterday (as the day before) such as we had in Bradford until mid evening.
That said, relying on the forecast to that extent is unwise, and the extremities of the platforms should have been checked once the sleet started.
There was barely any precipitation in Leeds yesterday. It was dry and very cold all day (i passed through at 5pm) and there was no ice. An unforecasted (in that it only popped up in the forecast in the mid evening) band of precipitation came through at about 10pm to midnight which caused the ice on the platform. The level of icing that occurred just wasnt anticipated
There was barely any precipitation in Leeds yesterday. It was dry and very cold all day (i passed through at 5pm) and there was no ice. An unforecasted (in that it only popped up in the forecast in the mid evening) band of precipitation came through at about 10pm to midnight which caused the ice on the platform. The level of icing that occurred just wasnt anticipated
As I arrived at the station around 7:00 PM, I was greeted by a persistent sleet, making the ground slick underfoot.
This evening, I find myself on the same trains once more, and I’ll be keeping a close eye on the journey to ensure I can provide an update on any potential issues.
In light of the troubles experienced last night, Northern has issued an apology and informed me that the station team has been made aware of those concerns. I appreciate their prompt communication and responsiveness.
As I arrived at the station around 7:00 PM, I was greeted by a persistent sleet, making the ground slick underfoot.
This evening, I find myself on the same trains once more, and I’ll be keeping a close eye on the journey to ensure I can provide an update on any potential issues.
In light of the troubles experienced last night, Northern has issued an apology and informed me that the station team has been made aware of those concerns. I appreciate their prompt communication and responsiveness.
Sleet, by definition, is a mix of liquid rain and snow and, as such, is not frozen on the ground. At the very worst it can cause slight slush, but not an 'ice rink'. What happens later, if the sky clears and the water freezes on the ground, is another matter.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
So the passenger should have gone and found the grit box and done it themselves?
Obviously people need to take personal responsibility, but that doesn’t remove the accountability - and often legal duty - for organisations to provide a safe environment for their customers (passengers). To say otherwise is ridiculous.
Quite, but perhaps a 'reasonably safe environment' would be more accurate as no environment can be absolutely safe. That, of course, is where the troublesome variability comes into play, and, as more and more personal responsibility/accountability is removed from people, so they expect more and more protection. At the risk of infringing some form of copyright, this cartoon from the current edition of 'Private Eye' sums it up neatly, where it shows a man seeing a banana skin on the ground and, instead of picking it up, going off to get a warning sign!
I travel from a single platform unstaffed branch line and the platform is always gritted during cold weather.
I dont know who grits it.
Id assume the union would complain if the driver or guard had to do it
Is there a grit bin? Is it padlocked? Do I have the appropriate key? Do I have to take a bag of grit with me? Have I been trained how to grit that platform? Have I signed for the bag of grit? How much dwell time do I have to grit the platform? More to the point, how much are you going to pay me to grit the platform?
Telling staff at the station at the time is much more likely to resolve an issue than sending an email the day after. It's obviously been missed for some reason, staff are human too.
I slipped up inside of Portsmouth and southsea Thursday because of the leaking roof and water brung in by customers during rain and because the floor gets slippery.
Because the floor cleaning machine was broke and couldn’t be cleaned up only loads of mats and wet floor signs put out.
I'm on 1P95 Manchester Airport to York, which stops at Deighton and Mirfield. Both platforms appear to have been hardly cleared of snow and ice at all, and look seriously slippery with thick patches of compacted snow/ice (we're talking an inch or so thick at least). We've just passed through Morley and that is the same. The last snow was a few days ago, surely this is asking for an incident to occur?
Just in defence of the station staff, compacted snow and ice is incredibly difficult to shift. In a previous life as a teacher, the school I worked at was closed for 3 days due to this type of condition. They even hired a mini digger to try to shift it from doorways and paths but in the end had to wait until it thawed. Once a few passengers at these stations have compacted the snow, it's there for the duration I'm afraid.
In my experience Northern sub contractors are very good at getting out and gritting before first service during the usual UK light frosts.
However when you have 3-6 inches of snow across a huge part of the network after Christmas break which then part thaws, freezes and stays for days it is no surprise it is now icy on platforms.
Just in defence of the station staff, compacted snow and ice is incredibly difficult to shift. In a previous life as a teacher, the school I worked at was closed for 3 days due to this type of condition. They even hired a mini digger to try to shift it from doorways and paths but in the end had to wait until it thawed. Once a few passengers at these stations have compacted the snow, it's there for the duration I'm afraid.
Good luck finding station staff - this is the north, not London! Deighton and Mirfield are unstaffed - so this is either work of contractors or Northern directly.
Mirfield probably has folks doing transpennine upgrade, but no-one would be encouraged to think about dropping a spot of rock salt on the platforms.
Back in the old days, were sacks of rock salt ever sent on the first trains with an expectation of the crew dropping some along the platform, chucking out the doors or more? You could imagine it's the sort of thing that might even still happen on the qt on the more remote lines today. Or, hangabout, have TfW announced closure/non-stop of Sugar Loaf due to lack of salting yet, say..?
On related theme - the platforms in the main shed at Man Pic are terribly slippy in some shoes .. why did an almost polished tile effect get selected..
We've been reporting platforms all week, Northern and East Mids still haven't visited some platforms. Though the company are supporting us, they are waiting for conductors to refuse to stop before pulling stops.
This week I arrived into Birmingham Snow Hill at morning rush hour while it was snowing lightly. There is no drainage on the exposed parts of the platforms and it is often covered in shallow surface water. As the train pulled in, through the window I saw a women slip flat on her back. I got off the train, slipped myself and somehow stayed upright. I turned around to see another woman slipping flat on her back and someone else lying on the floor. It was carnage.
The surface water had frozen solid and become dusted with light snow. There was no evidence of any grit on the platform, despite the snow and freezing weather starting the day before. I gave them some grief in the ticket office and they appear to have been gritting since. I can't fathom how a city centre station could be in such a lethal state. It's like they want to be sued.
To be fair, the conductor on 1P95 did warn about the platform conditions at Deighton and Mirfield, but obviously in the dark it's still going to be treacherous.
This week I arrived into Birmingham Snow Hill at morning rush hour while it was snowing lightly. There is no drainage on the exposed parts of the platforms and it is often covered in shallow surface water. As the train pulled in, through the window I saw a women slip flat on her back. I got off the train, slipped myself and somehow stayed upright. I turned around to see another woman slipping flat on her back and someone else lying on the floor. It was carnage.
The surface water had frozen solid and become dusted with light snow. There was no evidence of any grit on the platform, despite the snow and freezing weather starting the day before. I gave them some grief in the ticket office and they appear to have been gritting since. I can't fathom how a city centre station could be in such a lethal state. It's like they want to be sued.
Considering the huge expense and often sheer idiocy we go to in the industry in the name of risk reduction, I cannot fathom how this happens, well done for taking it up with them.
Don't forget working within 1.25m of the platform edge classes as 'on or near the line' and would require PTS trained staff and a COSS, to set up a safe system of work (e.g. line block).
It's doubtful that the typical gritting team would include these competencies by default.
Ice in bridges and stairs is potentially a more serious hazard than on the platform so I can understand why this was done. It's totally possible for ice to form in crystals or thin sheets under the cover of an overall canopy.
Of course it appears many minor stations have missed out on any treatment so that point I 100% agree with.
Don't forget working within 1.25m of the platform edge classes as 'on or near the line' and would require PTS trained staff and a COSS, to set up a safe system of work (e.g. line block).
It's doubtful that the typical gritting team would include these competencies by default.
It's a wonder passengers are allowed near to the platform edge when boarding..
Are we sure a gritting team exists? If West Yorkshire is typical, I am not sure these mythical things do..
If they do exist then they will have such a safe system, otherwise there would be no point employing them. Or perhaps the instruction is just to throw grit between yellow line and platform edge - which would be fine...
Or perhaps they only work in the summer.
There are also a lot of unsafe station entrances/paths some distance from running lines, and often with inclines so most likely to be slip risks.. the industry must be waiting for an accident to happen before doing something.
Don't forget working within 1.25m of the platform edge classes as 'on or near the line' and would require PTS trained staff and a COSS, to set up a safe system of work (e.g. line block).
It's doubtful that the typical gritting team would include these competencies by default.
Don't forget working within 1.25m of the platform edge classes as 'on or near the line' and would require PTS trained staff and a COSS, to set up a safe system of work (e.g. line block).
It's doubtful that the typical gritting team would include these competencies by default.
Don't forget working within 1.25m of the platform edge classes as 'on or near the line' and would require PTS trained staff and a COSS, to set up a safe system of work (e.g. line block).
It's doubtful that the typical gritting team would include these competencies by default.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
