Dangerous Station Platforms

[MichaelTrains]

I find myself at Leeds train station where the situation is quite alarming; the platforms are slick and treacherous, resembling an ice rink due to the persistent cold weather.

As a result, I witnessed a passenger lose their footing on the narrow platform and slip dangerously close to the tracks.

Fortunately, the incident only resulted in wet clothing and a painful bruise, but it could have been much worse.

This raises an important question: who is responsible for ensuring the platforms are gritted to prevent such hazardous conditions?

If gritting is not feasible, why are trains still allowed to depart from sections of the station that are exposed outside of the main train station roof and pose significant dangers to passengers?

To make matters more concerning, there appears to be a complete absence of platform staff, which only adds to the sense of unease.

I've taken the initiative to send an email to the train operating company (Northern) to emphasise the urgent need for action, especially when temperatures plummet below freezing.

The safety of passengers should always be a top priority. Imagine if the passenger had slid off the platform onto the tracks into the path of a moving train?

 

[Horizon22]

The TOC (or NR if applicable) managing the station is responsible. I am surprised it would not have been done given the forecasted conditions.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I travel from a single platform unstaffed branch line and the platform is always gritted during cold weather.
I dont know who grits it.
Id assume the union would complain if the driver or guard had to do it

 

[DarloRich]

I've taken the initiative to send an email to the train operating company (Northern) to emphasise the urgent need for action, especially when temperatures plummet below freezing.

Did you go to the station information point and tell them there was a problem? That would have got a quick response and rectification.

Which platform was it?

I dont know who grits it.

at my station a man comes in a van. He is employed by Carlisle (support services ?)

 

[Mat17]

Id assume the union would complain if the driver or guard had to do it

If it was down to the driver or guard then gritting time would have to be added onto the dwell time for each stop they were required to grit. It's make for a very slow journey!

 

[HerneHill]

I've taken the initiative to send an email to the train operating company (Northern) to emphasise the urgent need for action, especially when temperatures plummet below freezing.

Try Northern’s fault reporting portal as well!

Northern Rail

northernrail.my.site.com

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The TOC (or NR if applicable) managing the station is responsible. I am surprised it would not have been done given the forecasted conditions.

Leeds is a Network Rail managed station, isn't it?

Link to Network Rail online contact form...

Contact us - Network Rail

For safety issues call our 24 hour helpline: 03457 11 41 41 To report a crime call the BTP: 0800 40 50 40, 999 or text: 61016

www.networkrail.co.uk

 

[MichaelTrains]

Did you go to the station information point and tell them there was a problem? That would have got a quick response and rectification.

Which platform was it?


at my station a man comes in a van. He is employed by Carlisle (support services ?)

It was platform 12A, the one that is unprotected beneath the open sky, completely exposed to the elements.

Last night was unlike anything I had ever encountered before. The platform felt as if it had transformed into a slick sheet of ice due to the sleet and freezing conditions.

Perhaps that part of the station was missed?

 

[side effect]

It was platform 12A, the one that is unprotected beneath the open sky, completely exposed to the elements.

Last night was unlike anything I had ever encountered before. The platform felt as if it had transformed into a slick sheet of ice due to the sleet and freezing conditions.

Perhaps that part of the station was missed?

I did some station cleaning on London overground stations 3-11 shift a year ago and i always remember signing in at one station and the person on duty went out and done it herself so there was no customer service help while she was out. Luckily they are small platforms.

I covered from Stratford up to Watford which was 5 different shifts but sadly it was only temp as I really enjoyed it.

That was Carlisle support services also.

 

[thejuggler]

On stations into Leeds its done by the facilities managment company that also empty bins, cleaning etc, they will be managed by Northern and they visit very early morning to grit before commuter services begin.

At main stations there should be maintenance teams assigned to the task by Network Rail.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Id assume the union would complain if the driver or guard had to do it

I expect passengers would (quite understandably) complain too if their train was delayed a further 10-15 minutes at each station while the traincrew went off to salt the platform(s).

 

[Deepgreen]

I think this incident is the exception not the rule. I suspect it was missed. By comparison I wish local councils would stop spreading tons of grit/salt everywhere on dry, clear roads every time a slight frost is forecast. In dry conditions a frost alone isn't a hazard that warrants such an expensive operation, and one which accelerates road fabric deterioration, etc.

 

[DarloRich]

It was platform 12A, the one that is unprotected beneath the open sky, completely exposed to the elements.

Last night was unlike anything I had ever encountered before. The platform felt as if it had transformed into a slick sheet of ice due to the sleet and freezing conditions.

Perhaps that part of the station was missed?

Thanks - as a learning point for the future i would say always rpeort issues to the information point as it will get fixed sooner. Leeds even has an NR reception you could try.

I have done that with a problem at Leeds and it was dealt with immediate.

 

[dosxuk]

It could just be they were caught out by the weather. Round here (South Yorkshire) we had a little bit of sleety rain after a dry day, while it was still clear. It all froze pretty much instantly, with just enough sleet to wash away the grit, meaning everything got a thin coating of ice. Bit more grit later and it melted again, but for a while it was lethal. Even if you had people out gritting constantly, there would be a period when it was slippy if there was the same conditions in Leeds before they got round to treating that bit again.

That said, some people are just silly. I've seen two people this morning from my office window trying to walk on the dark bits of pavement - which are literally sheet ice. Next to them is some nice crunchy, grippy, broken ice & snow where they wouldn't have any problem staying upright. Guess they enjoyed the challenge though...

 

[tgregson]

If it was sleeting, it could be that not enough salt was spread to ensure the melting point of the water was below the expected surface temperature, and once the ice has formed and is sold it is difficult to get enough salt down to melt the ice entirely. I have noticed that salt is spread quite sparingly on platforms this week despite the snow and below freezing temperatures, it could be that not enough salt had been spread on the platform which is concerning. Headingley station (3 miles outside Leeds) had the same problem is morning it was sheet ice despite having been salted as I could see the salt on the surface and the guard was warning the platform was slippy as people got off.

Sorry to be pedantic but in the UK we salt road/paths/stations not grit them, salting applies rock salt to the surface that lowers the freezing point of water below the temperature expected to stop ice forming the amount of salt applied is critical to enough that the concentration in the water is high enough to prevent freezing and has to be done before ice forms as it needs to dissolve into any water that is on the surface. Gritting refers to applying grit that doesn't melt but provides traction on snow and ice and is using in conditions where it is too cold for the salt to melt the ice to water (from memory this is about -10C).

 

[Dr Hoo]

In my days on the railway SALTING was strictly forbidden because it could interfere with track circuits when it got washed onto the line.

It was essential to use other ice-melting chemicals.

 

[plugwash]

The safety of passengers should always be a top priority.

Unfortunately, adoption of this attitude often leads to denial of rail service, forcing passengers to use road services which are, in general, far less safe.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[coppercapped]

I find myself at Leeds train station where the situation is quite alarming; the platforms are slick and treacherous, resembling an ice rink due to the persistent cold weather.

As a result, I witnessed a passenger lose their footing on the narrow platform and slip dangerously close to the tracks.

Fortunately, the incident only resulted in wet clothing and a painful bruise, but it could have been much worse.

This raises an important question: who is responsible for ensuring the platforms are gritted to prevent such hazardous conditions?

If gritting is not feasible, why are trains still allowed to depart from sections of the station that are exposed outside of the main train station roof and pose significant dangers to passengers?

To make matters more concerning, there appears to be a complete absence of platform staff, which only adds to the sense of unease.

I've taken the initiative to send an email to the train operating company (Northern) to emphasise the urgent need for action, especially when temperatures plummet below freezing.

The safety of passengers should always be a top priority. Imagine if the passenger had slid off the platform onto the tracks into the path of a moving train?

Why not just find a member of the station staff and ask that someone comes out with a scoop of sand rather than spending time writing an email and then writing another message for this forum.

Doesn't anyone have any initiative any longer?

 

[Jamiescott1]

I expect passengers would (quite understandably) complain too if their train was delayed a further 10-15 minutes at each station while the traincrew went off to salt the platform(s).

Train arrives at station 16 minutes before departure

 

[The exile]

The safety of passengers should always be a top priority.

“Meet the person ultimately responsible for your safety” No picture beneath the wording - simply a mirror. Something that people seem very keen to forget.

 

[yoyothehobo]

This sleet/rain popped onto the weather forecast really quite late in the day yesterday, which led to a lot of roads, paths and similar things in Leeds being ice rinks this morning as the cold rain fell onto freezing surfaces with little time to add extra salt/grit in advance. Its unlikely that the station staff anywhere would have had a chance to react to the change in forecast.

 

[standish1]

Deansgate(Manchester) closed this morning because a member of public slipped and taken to hospital. Report in the Manchester Evening News.

 

[87electric]

“Meet the person ultimately responsible for your safety” No picture beneath the wording - simply a mirror. Something that people seem very keen to forget.

Agreed. Accountability starts with the self first. Too many folk playing the Unlucky Alf card (Fast Show).

 

[MichaelTrains]

Thanks - as a learning point for the future i would say always rpeort issues to the information point as it will get fixed sooner. Leeds even has an NR reception you could try.

I have done that with a problem at Leeds and it was dealt with immediate.

I did consider this but with the train delayed awaiting a driver I didn't want to wander off and then miss what was one of the last trains of the evening.

When the driver arrived he realised the platform was an ice rink and got on at the city end and proceeded to walk through the train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2024 ==

It could just be they were caught out by the weather. Round here (South Yorkshire) we had a little bit of sleety rain after a dry day, while it was still clear. It all froze pretty much instantly, with just enough sleet to wash away the grit, meaning everything got a thin coating of ice. Bit more grit later and it melted again, but for a while it was lethal. Even if you had people out gritting constantly, there would be a period when it was slippy if there was the same conditions in Leeds before they got round to treating that bit again.

That said, some people are just silly. I've seen two people this morning from my office window trying to walk on the dark bits of pavement - which are literally sheet ice. Next to them is some nice crunchy, grippy, broken ice & snow where they wouldn't have any problem staying upright. Guess they enjoyed the challenge though...

I largely share your perspective on this matter. It’s likely that the platform was treated with a gritting material early in the morning to mitigate ice formation, following overnight freezing conditions.

However, by 11 pm, after enduring a full day of relentless sleet and plummeting temperatures, that specific area of Leeds train station had become extremely hazardous.

The accumulation of ice on the platform, due to continual exposure to those harsh elements, created a genuinely treacherous situation for anyone trying to navigate the station at that late hour. Safety measures were clearly insufficient to counteract the severe conditions that developed throughout the day.

 

[perkin]

Sorry to be pedantic but in the UK we salt road/paths/stations not grit them, salting applies rock salt to the surface that lowers the freezing point of water below the temperature expected to stop ice forming the amount of salt applied is critical to enough that the concentration in the water is high enough to prevent freezing and has to be done before ice forms as it needs to dissolve into any water that is on the surface. Gritting refers to applying grit that doesn't melt but provides traction on snow and ice and is using in conditions where it is too cold for the salt to melt the ice to water (from memory this is about t-10C).

To be further pedantic, rock salt is typically halite (NaCl) with a decent component of other sedimentary material, typically clay/silt/fine sand sized particles which also help to provide a bit of traction, it's absolutely not pure salt. The stuff that is applied to roads is often mixed with other ingredients such as molasses to make the dry material more sticky in order to reduce wastage from it being blown about.

In climates that experience long term low temperatures, such as Alpine & Nordic countries, sand and grit sized particles are applied which are driven into and bond with frozen surfaces, in effect creating something similar to a tarmac surface - the last thing you want is for this to melt, so salt is not applied.

 

[MichaelTrains]

This sleet/rain popped onto the weather forecast really quite late in the day yesterday, which led to a lot of roads, paths and similar things in Leeds being ice rinks this morning as the cold rain fell onto freezing surfaces with little time to add extra salt/grit in advance. Its unlikely that the station staff anywhere would have had a chance to react to the change in forecast.

If that is indeed the situation, it seems clear that the takeaway for National Rail should be to reconsider scheduling late evening departures from platforms that are vulnerable to inclement weather conditions, such as sleet and freezing temperatures.

Given the potential safety hazards associated with waiting in dangerous platform areas, it might be prudent to relocate certain services to more sheltered platforms.

This proactive approach could enhance passenger comfort and safety during their travels, especially in the winter months when weather conditions can be particularly unforgiving.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2024 ==

Deansgate(Manchester) closed this morning because a member of public slipped and taken to hospital. Report in the Manchester Evening News.

I really hope that person is alright.

Last night, while waiting for my train, I witnessed a frightening incident where someone lost their footing on the slippery icy platform.

I couldn’t help but worry about their safety after such a sudden fall. and go dangerously close to the platform edge and live tracks.

Even at 11 pm Leeds station is alive and kicking with arrivals and departures.

 

[Dr Hoo]

If that is indeed the situation, it seems clear that the takeaway for National Rail should be to reconsider scheduling late evening departures from platforms that are vulnerable to inclement weather conditions, such as sleet and freezing temperatures.

(Noting that this thread as titled applies to all station platforms rather then just those at Leeds) Whilst that might be possible at Leeds towards the end of the day when services are winding down, I'm not sure where that leaves the rest of the day. Most of the time there is no spare capacity - hence the challenges of some services essentially being restricted to Platform 17 for example.

I'm also unclear how that works at the great majority of wayside stations with no overall roof or extensive canopies, most of which are also unstaffed. Should trains just 'not stop' or not even run if it's sleeting or icy despite occasional treatment?

 

[Starmill]

“Meet the person ultimately responsible for your safety” No picture beneath the wording - simply a mirror. Something that people seem very keen to forget.

Your suggestion being what? The passenger carry grit around with them in their bag and spread it in case of ice? They don't travel by train until they learn ice skating? Perhaps you could elaborate?

 

[MichaelTrains]

(Noting that this thread as titled applies to all station platforms rather then just those at Leeds) Whilst that might be possible at Leeds towards the end of the day when services are winding down, I'm not sure where that leaves the rest of the day. Most of the time there is no spare capacity - hence the challenges of some services essentially being restricted to Platform 17 for example.

I'm also unclear how that works at the great majority of wayside stations with no overall roof or extensive canopies, most of which are also unstaffed. Should trains just 'not stop' or not even run if it's sleeting or icy despite occasional treatment?

This morning, reports have emerged from Manchester highlighting a significant safety concern regarding the train platforms. It seems that the icy conditions have rendered the platforms dangerously slippery, causing passengers to lose their footing and come perilously close to slipping onto the live tracks.

Given the severity of the situation, it is essential that train services should not stop at these affected platforms or even stations until the platforms are thoroughly assessed and treated to ensure they are completely clear of ice.

Passenger safety must be the top priority, and appropriate measures should be taken to address these hazardous icy conditions promptly.

Imagine the outcry if a passenger did end up on the tracks in front of a moving train.

 

[30907]

However, by 11 pm, after enduring a full day of relentless sleet and plummeting temperatures, that specific area of Leeds train station had become extremely hazardous.

In which case the fault will lie with the forecasting - which predicted very cold but dry weather yesterday (as the day before) such as we had in Bradford until mid evening.

That said, relying on the forecast to that extent is unwise, and the extremities of the platforms should have been checked once the sleet started.