Dale Farm Evictions (Travellers)

[GB]

...no it has nothing to do with Emmerdale

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-14017865

What the hell is going on with these people:roll:

 

[passmore]

...no it has nothing to do with Emmerdale

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-14017865

What the hell is going on with these people:roll:

Put simply, it's going to be like breaking apart a steel chain with your bare hands. They've been there for so long they've established a sort of 'community mentality' whereby they'll do anything to resist eviction.
Ultimately, IMO, if the council are not prepared to put up this community of travellers in a much suitable place than Dale Farm, where they do have planning permission etc, then they should leave them alone. Otherwise, they'll go elsewhere and before long, we'll have a new Dale Farm all over again.

It's not as if they're doing anything or anyone any harm, is it? I've always felt that Basildon Council were being too heavy-handed for no good reason, all because of the fact they don't have 'planning permission'!

 

[GB]

To be fair, they should be held to the same laws and procedures as the rest of us. If you or I were to build buildings on our own land without planning permission then I have no doubt we would be told to take it down or risk the council doing it for us....why should "travellers" be any different.

Lets also no forget that a large proportion of that site is built on green belt land, land that as been designated green belt for a reason.

Sorry but I have no sympathy for those that are there illegally and even less so for those that are intending to use gas canisters, petrol bombs etc etc and those that are willing to risk their childrens lives.

 

[passmore]

Yes, but it's taken the council 10 years to come to the decision that they were on green belt land illegally, time better spent finding other ways so that these travellers don't have to spoil other greenbelt elsewhere with their illegal building. Evicting them is counter-productive in the long-term as they fast become some other council's problem. You dig up a nest of ants and they go elsewhere.

I hate how much bureaucracy there is these days, but 10 years to reach the decision that they were there illegally and with no offer of a legal alternative, it really is ridiculous!

 

[talltim]

If you built a house on green belt land, and the council forced you to demolish it because it had no planning permissions, would you expect them to provide a legal alternative?
And why are they building anything? I thought they were travellers.

 

[passmore]

The point is they've let them build and build for 10 years, and then after 10 years, ask them to go.

It's a joke.

 

[GB]

The council have been trying to evict the illegals for a number of years but have been unable to do anything due to the number and process of appeals. So its not exactly a case of letting them build for 10 years and then telling them to go.

 

[passmore]

The council have been trying to evict the illegals for a number of years but have been unable to do anything due to the number and process of appeals. So its not exactly a case of letting them build for 10 years and then telling them to go.

My mistake then, I hadn't realised that there had been numerous attempts in the past. Still, the length of time it's taken is a bit of a farce. The council in question here are naive enough to think that eviction is THE answer here.

A better solution would be to offer them cheap council accommodation, but, surprise surprise, the council won't be offering them that simply because a group of travellers suddenly become their responsibility.

 

[90019]

A better solution would be to offer them cheap council accommodation, but, surprise surprise, the council won't be offering them that simply because a group of travellers suddenly become their responsibility.

And what about the people you deny council houses to so you can provide them for these people?

No one forced them to set up camp illegally there. It's their own responsibility to find somewhere else to live.

 

[passmore]

And what about the people you deny council houses to so you can provide them for these people?

No one forced them to set up camp illegally there. It's their own responsibility to find somewhere else to live.

It's up to the council to prioritise council housing to prospective tenants, but the least they could've done is offered it to them instead of moving their problem potentially onto another council's.

 

[thefab444]

Why should people who have chosen to live beyond the tax system receive council accomodation?

 

[GB]

As far as I can make out (based on the BBC report in the OP), the council have set aside £1million for temporary accommodation.

 

[Drsatan]

Why should people who have chosen to live beyond the tax system receive council accomodation?

Because as a result of being made homeless councils will be forced to offer council accomodation for them. Sounds perverse but there you go.

 

[passmore]

Because as a result of being made homeless councils will be forced to offer council accomodation for them. Sounds perverse but there you go.

Exactly, the system seems to be biased towards people made homeless. Whether that's 'perverse' in this case we don't know since we don't know the Toms, Dicks and Harrys who make up this traveller's patch.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It is indeed fortunate that Britain shows more humanity than a certain area of the Czech region with a large ethnic Roma population.

 

[yorkie]

What the hell is going on with these people:roll:

Can't say because anyone who criticises them would be accused of being racist. Which I'm absolutely not.

Though I don't see how they are a 'race' anyway. Their accents sound Irish to me, but all the Irish people I've met are far nicer people than they are.

The last time I encountered some of them on a train they were on a XC train from Donny to somewhere like Leamington or Banbury and were basically 'effing it', and one of them tried to pinch someone's bag. Their accents confused me, but then someone identified them as travellers. That 'someone' announced that just been out of prison and had family members who were travellers and told them that if the guard tried to evict them he'd use violence against him. The guard then checked other peoples' tickets and told other people off for being invalid, while doing nothing about them for fear of violence. When a woman complained that someone was crawling under her seat, a woman sat near her tried to drown her voice out by talking gibberish, but that trick didn't work. BTP were nowhere to be seen where I got off at Derby so have no idea what happened next.

 

[thefab444]

Agree completely with what you're getting at Yorkie.

There used to be a traditional gypsy family living around here a few years ago, i.e. an actual family with a traditional horse drawn caravan, not an entire herd of louts with ramshackle 4x4s and plastic caravans, and there were never any problems.

Many of these so-called modern "travellers" are just drop-outs and vagrants.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Travellers are not a race. They are a collective group who choose to live the way they do. Races come from ethnic origination not lifestyles!

Certainly figures show that there is a higher rate of crime in these groups than elsewhere; perhaps due to the difficult traceability of the life they lead - but that does not mean that they are all bad apples.

With regards to the eviction situation, I think it is right that the council provide alternative accommodation. If they had only been on the land a few months, then I don't think the council should provide accommodation, but they have been living there for 10 years. The council simply haven't got their act together - and please, no guff about appeals - it doesn't take 10 years to sort them out.

 

[passmore]

Travellers are not a race. They are a collective group who choose to live the way they do. Races come from ethnic origination not lifestyles!

Certainly figures show that there is a higher rate of crime in these groups than elsewhere; perhaps due to the difficult traceability of the life they lead - but that does not mean that they are all bad apples.

With regards to the eviction situation, I think it is right that the council provide alternative accommodation. If they had only been on the land a few months, then I don't think the council should provide accommodation, but they have been living there for 10 years. The council simply haven't got their act together - and please, no guff about appeals - it doesn't take 10 years to sort them out.

Quite, fully agree with you Ralph.

Implying that travellers are somehow a 'race' just gives a convenient explanation for why the council seem to be powerless to confront them. The fact is, they know that they are ultimately responsible for them, and they have shirked on the matter for 10 years.

As I said, it's a joke.

 

[WestCoast]

They are not a race, that is for sure.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Many of these so-called modern "travellers" are just drop-outs and vagrants.

I agree, the "traditional types" seem to be absolutely fine - law abiding and compliant. Whereas, the modern type can create living hell for people in the local area. That's not, of course, to say that they are all like that.

In this situation, perhaps finding another site would be a more appropriate course of action. I don't think these people who live outside of the tax system should be accommodated in housing.

 

[mac]

Did anyone see the police on tv on tuesday?they chased a van for 1 hour when it went down a dead end road the police thought they had got it,until the driver jumped out and ran onto a caravan site and they just left him.They had him on film but it seemed they could not go looking for him.

 

[bnm]

The last time I encountered some of them on a train they were on a XC train from Donny to somewhere like Leamington or Banbury and were basically 'effing it', and one of them tried to pinch someone's bag. Their accents confused me, but then someone identified them as travellers. That 'someone' announced that just been out of prison and had family members who were travellers and told them that if the guard tried to evict them he'd use violence against him. The guard then checked other peoples' tickets and told other people off for being invalid, while doing nothing about them for fear of violence. When a woman complained that someone was crawling under her seat, a woman sat near her tried to drown her voice out by talking gibberish, but that trick didn't work. BTP were nowhere to be seen where I got off at Derby so have no idea what happened next.

And that is relevant how to the OP? Except to reinforce prejudice and tar all with the same brush. And as far as I know, none the languages spoken by travellers (and that is not a pejorative, nor should it be used as such) is gibberish. Either Angloromani, Cant or Gammon would be most likely.

As for whether or not Pavees (Irish Travellers), Romanichals etc are a race, then maybe not. However the 2011 UK Census afforded Romanichals and Irish Travellers the status of being distinct ethnic groups.

 

[thefab444]

And as far as I know, none the languages spoken by travellers (and that is not a pejorative, nor should it be used as such) is gibberish. Either Angloromani, Cant or Gammon would be most likely.

Most of the sort myself and Yorkie are referring to can probably only speak English.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Saw a gypsy nearly start a fight at Heuston LUAS yesterday FWIW.

 

[bnm]

Saw a gypsy nearly start a fight at Heuston LUAS yesterday FWIW.

Now, 'gypsy' is a pejorative. You were able to decide on this person's ethnic background while witnessing this 'nearly' fight were you? :roll:

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Now, 'gypsy' is a pejorative. You were able to decide on this person's ethnic background while witnessing this 'nearly' fight were you? :roll:

I can't tell the smilie on my phone, but in Ewood, Blackburn their is a massive traveller site, mostly with gyspies, and they are around there quite a lot. I can generally tell one when I see one. If that's seen as racist, I don't care.

 

[passmore]

I can't tell the smilie on my phone, but in Ewood, Blackburn their is a massive traveller site, mostly with gyspies, and they are around there quite a lot. I can generally tell one when I see one. If that's seen as racist, I don't care.

Fine, but don't start labelling them all as 'troublemakers' and then argue they shouldn't be housed anywhere because they cause trouble.

Tarring them all just because they live in a travellers site is as prejudiced as being openly racist or pejorative towards them.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Fine, but don't start labelling them all as 'troublemakers' and then argue they shouldn't be housed anywhere because they cause trouble.

Tarring them all just because they live in a travellers site is as prejudiced as being openly racist or pejorative towards them.

Could you please quote my post specifically to show where I allegedly tar them and collectively label them?

 

[passmore]

Could you please quote my post specifically to show where I allegedly tar them and collectively label them?

I was referring to someone else's posts who was being prejudiced, sorry for the confusion.

I didn't mean you were openly prejudiced, sorry about that.

 

[Hydro]

Now, 'gypsy' is a pejorative

Best tell Channel 4 that, and all the travellers they filmed having their weddings.