D Stock discussion and formation reports

[Peter Mugridge]

With the C Stock now extinct apart from the special coming up on Sunday week, attention will be turning to the D Stock as the march of the S Stock continues apace!

It's a little bit early for formation reports as it's about 4 - 6 months before the first series withdrawals are expected, but I have already seen a few requests here and there from people asking about particular D Stock units they need, so finding myself with a long fester last week ( Monday 9th ) while waiting for one I needed a photo of to return, I was able to note all the formations in the off peak service on that day. So here they are!

It should be stressed that the entire fleet is still current, so there is no need for anyone to miss out on anything yet, but for those who are down to a few it could be useful knowing whether something is in service or on maintenance. Similarly, those of you who like me need just a few DMs from double cab units, knowing which way round the units are at present is very useful indeed...

Two points:

1) Some will have already been re-matched so this list should only be regarded as accurate for the 9th June.

2a) I note the units by the centre cars rather than the DMs to avoid possible confusion with the double cab units as those have two consecutively numbered DMs.

2b) For those who need to know which DM was "outer" with the double cab ones, that will be obvious as all the formations given here are listed with the even end unit first - done this way round as the lowest numbered unit in the fleet is even.


17000 + 17107
17004 + 17127
17006 + 17033
17012 + 17512
17014 + 17121
17016 + 17057
17020 + 17005
17022 + 17031
17024 + 17073
17026 + 17091
17028 + 17516
17032 + 17518
17038 + 17021
17040 + 17075
17042 + 17085
17046 + 17095
17048 + 17119
17050 + 17093
17052 + 17045
17054 + 17113
17056 + 17520
17058 + 17101
17060 + 17015
17062 + 17530
17064 + 17506
17066 + 17115
17070 + 17077
17074 + 17123
17080 + 17065
17082 + 17089
17086 + 17049
17088 + 17532
17090 + 17099
17094 + 17041
17096 + 17003
17098 + 17051
17100 + 17019
17102 + 17053
17104 + 17069
17106 + 17071
17112 + 17027
17116 + 17007
17118 + 17087
17122 + 17083
17126 + 17035
17502 + 17125
17508 + 17129
17514 + 17055
17522 + 17067
17526 + 17117
17536 + 17011
17538 + 17001

 

[Dstock7080]

LT/LU convention is to show the outer DM cars thus indicating which is facing out and which direction they face, i.e. your 17088+17532 would be correctly shown as 7088+7533.
If 2 double-ended units were coupled your system would not indicate which DM car was leading east or west, i.e. 17510+17522, would correctly be show as 7510+7523.
(less numbers to type too)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I do know what the convention is, but I kept getting muddled up because it's not instinctive that the even numbered bit is the lower one, so years ago I switched to using the centre cars. I do the same with Piccadilly Line 1973 Stock.

In the event of two double cab units running together ( I thought that wasn't permitted, though? Something to do with them being slightly longer? ) I would still be listing the even ended unit first so it would be easily deducable.

 

[bb21]

Observations from Thursday 19th (formation changes in bold, outer cabs listed)

7006 + 7033
7009 + 7110
7016 + 7031
7018 + 7023
7019 + 7100
7024 + 7073
7025 + 7078
7035 + 7036
7038 + 7047
7044 + 7129
7053 + 7102
7058 + 7101
7068 + 7515
7079 + 7538
7092 + 7106
7103 + 7114
7111 + 7120

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Someone has mailed me to say they have been told the first D Stock withdrawal will be in mid January and is likely to be one of the double ended units as it will be a prototype conversion for the diesel powered thingy.

 

[tranzitjim]

How long will it take for the whole D stock fleet to be removed from service?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They're saying by the end of 2016, but given that Derby have almost completed the S7 build it could be some months sooner if the Vivarail SuperPacer project using the D Stock goes ahead.

 

[edwin_m]

I should think Vivarail want to get a demonstrator up and running well before the deadline for the Northern franchise competition.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I should think Vivarail want to get a demonstrator up and running well before the deadline for the Northern franchise competition.

See post #5 above...

 

[edwin_m]

See post #5 above...

Yes, I was agreeing with you!

 

[tranzitjim]

Just to get things clear for me.

All C stock trains are gone now?

None of the D stock trains are yet to be removed?

Do we already have S stock trains operating all over the District lines, not just the wimblewares?

 

[samuelmorris]

1. Yes
2. Not that I know of
3. Almost - they run as far as Ealing Broadway, but not sure about Richmond. They definitely won't be going east of Barking until early next year.

 

[astock5000]

3. Almost - they run as far as Ealing Broadway, but not sure about Richmond.

S stock has run to Richmond, but they are not able to at the moment. I'm not sure of the exact reason for this though.

A few D stock formation reports from Monday 8th December:
7026 + 7527 065
7052 + 7539 066
7120 + 7009 062
7500 + 7111 061
7516 + 7005 067

 

[PeterY]

Does anyone know was route the new S7s will be taking on their way to the district line? Will it be the same as the S8s to Neasden?

If all goes well, this week I intend to ride the D stock from Upminster. Living in Watford I don't get much chance to ride the District line.

 

[100andthirty]

All S stock is delivered to Neasden. From there it will make its way to the District via the Circle. S stock is not cleared for the Rayners Lane to Hanger Lane Junction section of the Piccadilly line.

 

[Domh245]

Some S stock are also delivered to Ruislip. Most of the S7s are in London, those not in service being stored in various places around the network.

 

[Dstock7080]

All S stock is delivered to Neasden.

S7 Stock since January 2013 have all been delivered to Ruislip, from Old Dalby test track, then transferred to Neasden to join the S7 fleet which is mixed among all three Lines.

 

[tranzitjim]

Why are they storing the latest S7 deliveries and not putting them into service?

Is there some serious barrier blocking their entry onto the District lines?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I am told that this coming week will be that last in which the D78 fleet on the District Line is intact.

The following units are expected to be those that are withdrawn, probably on Friday evening.

7058 - 17058 - 8058
7065 - 17065 - 8065
7082 - 17082 - 8082
7510 - 17510 - 7511

( Presumably these will not go for scrap but are likely to provide carriages for the prototype "SuperPacer" conversion? )

 

[tranzitjim]

I guess that none will go to scrap, given the current plans for them.

How many of the D stock runs now have S stock trains operating on them?

 

[astock5000]

Formation reports from 10th January:

7006 + 7027 053
7024 + 7087
7042 + 7065 006
7048 + 7101 062
7050 + 7533 004
7080 + 7049
7082 + 7077 003
7098 + 7501
7102 + 7129 054
7104 + 7113 025?
7116 + 7055
7502 + 7117
7506 + 7107 027
7516 + 7005

 

[bluegoblin7]

I guess that none will go to scrap, given the current plans for them.

8000 series trailer cars are expected to be scrapped, plus some others. VivaRail only have enough cars to make 75 units. Additionally LUL are retaining "some" cars for conversion to a RAT.

How many of the D stock runs now have S stock trains operating on them?

Only T121 which has been running for some time, as Richmond and Upminster are still not available - but sign off is expected imminently. First S stock in service is meant to be next Monday, 19/1.

 

[Dstock7080]

T121 has not been formed of S7 since the timetable change of 13 December, as T73 T74 both start from ECom instead.

Variously this week T54 T67 have been S7s although the evening Upminster run has been curtailed at Barking and run empty beyond.

As from Friday 16, passenger working to/from Upminster will commence, initially with only T753 T754 running at revised times.

8000 series cars are the UNDM Uncoupling Non-Driving Motor cars.

 

[tranzitjim]

Who has the duty of scrapping the 8000 cars?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry to sound do dumb but,

The 75 trains, how many cars per train will that be?

How D stock cars are there currently operating?

 

[samuelmorris]

So the 'up to 85 units' thing isn't being fulfilled? i.e. they're not going to make the 3-car units, just the 6-cars?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If I understand it right, the SuperPacers will be three cars consisting of DM + Trailer + DM.

The vast majority of D Stock units are single ended, ie they have only one DM, so for most cases two units of D Stock are required to make one SuperPacer unit.

Each pair of D Stock units can therefore create one three car or one four car SuperPacer ( DM + T + DM or DM + T + T + DM ) although I understand that only 3 car units are planned. In either instance, the NDM ( the 8xxx car ) is not required.

The fact of the first four withdrawals seemingly being planned for three standard + one double ended unit suggests they intend to create two three car units as prototypes as the composition of these units would leave them with a spare DM in the works, which sounds sensible to me.

 

[samuelmorris]

That seems really wasteful considering the trains will only end up being 50 metres long, but I suppose perhaps that's all they think is needed.
Still thought, wouldn't they still manage 85 units if doing that? I count 170 cabs total from the D stock fleet...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

75 SuperPacers.

The Underground are retaining 10 of the double ended D Stock for leafbusters, de-icers and other departmental uses.

 

[tranzitjim]

Would those other cars be worth anything?

And who would I best contact if I seek to buy some?

 

[Camden]

This is an interesting project, but I think calling these trains "SuperPacers" is not very fitting and might not go down well.

It's important to realise that the vast majority of people who travel on todays Pacers will be neither fans of trains nor fans of Pacers. In fact for those that actually use them I'd suggest there may be a loathing for them from many. From what I have seen, the term Pacer itself has become synonymous with "neglected north".

Having ridden on a Pacer myself I think giving any Pacer term to D stock conversions doesn't do justice to the potential quality product on offer anyway. Even unrefurbished a D stock train and a pacer are incomparable in terms of passenger comfort.

The term "D train" is quite snappy I thought, as a brand name.