D&G Buses

[mangad]

What's that got to do with anything I never said anything about the passengers so your reply is irrelevant

I just think national fleet numbering for all centrebus including D&G should be brought in

Not some random 3 number and some 4 looks very unprofessional

I'm imagining a conversation at Centrebus HQ between the boss and a staff member suggesting changing the numbering system...

STAFF MEMBER: Boss, we should change to a four digit fleet numbering system across all our subsiduaries.
BOSS: Okay, I'm listening. Why should we do that?
STAFF: well it would make us look more professional.
BOSS: err, right. Okay. Not sure I understand how it would, but let's run with it. What else would it do?
STAFF: err...
BOSS: would it allow us to do something we can't currently do?
STAFF: err...
BOSS: okay, let's assume it has loads of benefits. What about the costs? How much is this going to cost us? We'll have to come up with a numbering system, make sure it's correctly applied, update all the records, apply new fleet numbers. Takes time. What's the cost/benefit analysis look like?
STAFF: yeah, forget I mentioned it...

 

[CN12 AWU]

Apparently D&G have just won new Cheshire East Bus Tenders starting end of march

Can't find anything to confirm this however there is a Cheshire east document online with tender announcement for yesterday and a start for 31st March (but that's for companies to bid, no mention of winners)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Feb 2025 ==

https://moderngov.cheshireeast.gov.uk/documents/s122677/ODR%202%20-%20Bus%20Service%20Contracts.pdf

That's the contracts due up and dates but no mention of D&G but just been informed by someone who works for them that they have won all the routes

 

[Simon75]

Looks like D&G will now have a monopoly in Congleton if they take over the Beartown routes , and apart from the 109 in Macclesfield an almost monopoly there (including the High Peak).
Is Macclesfield depot big enough for more routes?

 

[daodao]

Apparently D&G have just won new Cheshire East Bus Tenders starting end of march

Can't find anything to confirm this however there is a Cheshire east document online with tender announcement for yesterday and a start for 31st March (but that's for companies to bid, no mention of winners)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Feb 2025 ==

https://moderngov.cheshireeast.gov.uk/documents/s122677/ODR%202%20-%20Bus%20Service%20Contracts.pdf

That's the contracts due up and dates but no mention of D&G but just been informed by someone who works for them that they have won all the routes

The services listed in this document are:

• 317, 316/8/9, 42 and 88 - currently operated by D&G
• 391/2, 90/91/92 and 39 - currently provided by other operators
• 71 and 93

School service 71 was stated to have been retained when Nantwich rural services 70 and 72 were discontinued at the end of August 2024, but it is not listed on various websites (East Cheshire Council, D&G Buses, Bus Times, Traveline). Is it still running and if so, is it now a "closed" service and is it still run by D&G Buses?

Service 93 is also not listed as an East Cheshire service on these websites. D&G Buses do run a service numbered 93, but this is a Biddulph local service running entirely within Staffordshire.

 

[CN12 AWU]

The services listed in this document are:

• 317, 316/8/9, 42 and 88 - currently operated by D&G
• 391/2, 90/91/92 and 39 - currently provided by other operators
• 71 and 93

School service 71 was stated to have been retained when Nantwich rural services 70 and 72 were discontinued at the end of August 2024, but it is not listed on various websites (East Cheshire Council, D&G Buses, Bus Times). Is it still running and if so, is it now a "closed" service and is it still run by D&G Buses?

Service 93 is also not listed as an East Cheshire service on these websites. D&G Buses do run a service numbered 93, but this is a Biddulph local service running entirely within Staffordshire.

Be intresting if D&G has won all the above the Nantwich to Crewe 39 or K39 as it was seems to change operators every year or 2

 

[citybus2500]

What's that got to do with anything I never said anything about the passengers so your reply is irrelevant

I just think national fleet numbering for all centrebus including D&G should be brought in

Not some random 3 number and some 4 looks very unprofessional

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Feb 2025 ==


Wouldn't be suprised if they join the other Versas in stoke and either 2 SRs move to Crewe or 2 newer E200's

They've had a group wide fleetnumbering going back years. There were no clashes of fleetnumbers between D&G/Chaserider/Centrebus. For some reason they have now decided to adopt a 4 diget scheme when there really didn't appear to be any need.

And how does a fleet numbering system make a company look professional or unprofessional?

 

[CN12 AWU]

Be intresting if D&G has won all the above the Nantwich to Crewe 39 or K39 as it was seems to change operators every year or 2

I can't find proof of who has won surly if starting 1st April they would have to register the routes by now unless it's no longer 90day notice for new registrations

 

[JKP]

I can't find proof of who has won surly if starting 1st April they would have to register the routes by now unless it's no longer 90day notice for new registrations

Never has been 90 days notice to register. It is 42 days plus 28 days notice to the Local Authority. Though as a contract I would expect Cheshire East not to require notification.

 

[CN12 AWU]

Never has been 90 days notice to register. It is 42 days plus 28 days notice to the Local Authority. Though as a contract I would expect Cheshire East not to require notification.

But it's only 40 days left and nowt on VOSA bus registrations for D&G which gets me wondering if they actually not won the other routes hope for public in crew they will have as means more of a network for D&G pass holders especially if they gain 89 and rest of 130 contract

Can't see them going for 391/2 or 90-93 if I'm honest

 

[JKP]

But it's only 40 days left and nowt on VOSA bus registrations for D&G which gets me wondering if they actually not won the other routes hope for public in crew they will have as means more of a network for D&G pass holders especially if they gain 89 and rest of 130 contract

Can't see them going for 391/2 or 90-93 if I'm honest

I see that contract award date was 16th February. Given that the contracts commence 31st March, I suspect that the successful operator will be given a letter of support by the Council to start or change their registration at less than the 42 days notice.

 

[duncombec]

But it's only 40 days left and nowt on VOSA bus registrations for D&G which gets me wondering if they actually not won the other routes hope for public in crew they will have as means more of a network for D&G pass holders especially if they gain 89 and rest of 130 contract

As a council tendered service, the Authority would be pretty much obliged to support a short notice registration if they wanted to have the contracts start on time. There have been various reports over the years that Traffic Commissioners have noted an increasing tendency among some local authorities to run their tendering program close to the line, then just assume short notice registrations will be accepted. Even the TCs understand that if you haven't been awarded a contract in time, you cannot register it!

Can't see them going for 391/2 or 90-93 if I'm honest

High peak (same group) have operated the 391/2 before, albeit in a previous form, and D&G have operated the Congleton town services before, e.g. https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_hogwash_files/28283632722/ (Linking to a third-party flickr picture of a D&G Solo on Congleton service 90 in 2016, after the collapse of GHA coaches, with the caption stating it was D&G's second appearance on the service).

 

[323235]

I have just travelled on the 393 bus and the bus driver was saying to someone that Belle Vue have won a 5 year contract , so D&G don’t have that (391/392/393).

 

[ACBest]

They've had a group wide fleetnumbering going back years. There were no clashes of fleetnumbers between D&G/Chaserider/Centrebus. For some reason they have now decided to adopt a 4 diget scheme when there really didn't appear to be any need.

And how does a fleet numbering system make a company look professional or unprofessional?

The reason for the adoption of a four digit numbering scheme is down to a new back office system that’s being brought in. It can’t handle anything smaller - though I’ve since forgotten what’s being done about existing vehicles - which aren’t being re-numbered - to ensure they work with the system.

 

[G760XRE]

The reason for the adoption of a four digit numbering scheme is down to a new back office system that’s being brought in. It can’t handle anything smaller - though I’ve since forgotten what’s being done about existing vehicles - which aren’t being re-numbered - to ensure they work with the system.

Given they're not renumbering existing vehicles, you'd expect that in terms of the back office system those vehicles fleet number would simply be preceeded by a zero.... But who knows, probably not that simple!

 

[Dwarfer1979]

The reason for the adoption of a four digit numbering scheme is down to a new back office system that’s being brought in. It can’t handle anything smaller - though I’ve since forgotten what’s being done about existing vehicles - which aren’t being re-numbered - to ensure they work with the system.

The new management system has no issue with number length, however it will hold all records for a vehicle forever (or at least as long as it is used) so cannot accommodate repeated fleet numbers in the future even after a vehicle has been disposed of and the combined fleet size for certain types mean that certain numbers are already being run out of (the E200 series in the 500s most pressingly) so new additions are receiving 4 digit numbers which gives 9999 entries before you run out numbers (rather than 999 for the current 1,2 or 3 digit number series). It simply was easier to switch all new buses to 4 digit from a set date rather than each number series switching as they ran out of numbers which some would do soon whilst others (like the decker 900 series) may never hit.

 

[sonic2009]

There's been plenty of rumours going around that D&G have won a 'few' tenders. It will be interesting to see, sill nothing on VOSA or any sign of timetables given the services are a few weeks away from starting.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

There's been plenty of rumours going around that D&G have won a 'few' tenders. It will be interesting to see, sill nothing on VOSA or any sign of timetables given the services are a few weeks away from starting.

The Licensing Office are still running months behind on processing registration, I submitted some short-notice changes in mid-January that were only finally processed last week (not approved, where they will appear online, only uploaded in the internal system so they can be reviewed) so it is unlikely you will see anything up before they start if they are working on anything like a short-notice timeline.

Cheshire East did issue tenders for most, but not all, of their supported network late last year which will have only recently been awarded (and were a little delayed so may well be on short-notice applications) and since D&G already operated a lot of these a lot of these wins will be retentions but I think there are a couple of new services amongst that.

 

[PaulWC]

Update on the new Cheshire East contracts from March 31st on D&G's website:-

Service Updates | D&G Bus

www.dgbus.co.uk

The only tender they have won from someone else is the Congleton locals from Hollinshead.

The 88 is split with Knutsford to Macclesfield becoming the 87, but no change of bus required.

The 312 ends due to the end of developer funding.

Improvements on several other services, and the Nantwich rural services return as the 51, 52 and 53.
51 Wrenbury - Nantwich
52 Wrenbury - Nantwich - Leighton Hospital
53 Buerton - Audlem - Nantwich - Leighton Hospital

I know round Wistatson Green, the local MP has had a leaflet sent out saying how a bus from the area to the hospital is being restored. Not sure how useful this is though, given there are only 4 buses that go via Wistaston and Wistaston Green to the hospital between 10.42am and 2.42pm and only 3 buses run back from the hospital at 9.05, 9.50 and 11.05am. The first bus via Wistaston to the hospital returns from Leighton to be the last bus back!!!

 

[semppec]

The 37 had a Sunday service under Arriva about 25 years ago.

I moved from Northwich not long before the Kickstart project and new Centros on the 31 in 2006. Can't recall if it had a Sunday service but suspect not.

I think it still needs a sunday service as it is almost always busy. Me personally I've got to get it almost every day and it's always packed up to the point where there are people standing up near the door blocking the mirror. It's not great that they don't have double deckers either but they won't invest in some for some odd reason??

 

[sonic2009]

It's not great that they don't have double deckers either but they won't invest in some for some odd reason??

The garage as Crewe cannot accommodate deckers due to the maintenance bays there. I don't think they can fit inside. The use of deckers isn't needed on every service though, that's where Arriva failed as they were running fresh air around. The one thing D&G do need to do is keep the same buses on the 31 & 37, and not stick smaller buses on at times. Ideally having the 73 plate E200mmc and Enviro200 64 plates on the routes. There's 1 of the new 74 plate Volvo Evora that's on the routes also.

 

[Danfilm007]

The garage as Crewe cannot accommodate deckers due to the maintenance bays there. I don't think they can fit inside. The use of deckers isn't needed on every service though, that's where Arriva failed as they were running fresh air around. The one thing D&G do need to do is keep the same buses on the 31 & 37, and not stick smaller buses on at times. Ideally having the 73 plate E200mmc and Enviro200 64 plates on the routes. There's 1 of the new 74 plate Volvo Evora that's on the routes also.

But I believe it's informal D&G policy not to buy them anyway, even when they could use them in Adderley Green.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

But I believe it's informal D&G policy not to buy them anyway, even when they could use them in Adderley Green.

They are more expensive to buy, more expensive to operate, restricted on what routes they can be allocated to and, in the case of Centrebus/D&G, about half the depots either can't accomodate them at all or have major restrictions on such so they produce all sorts of restrictions. Also, for a company like Centrebus/D&G, very few routes actually justify double-deckers on any trips let alone able to cover the extra running costs over the full operating day, you simply need the work to justify enough of them to have a useful fleet. If you only have one or two peak trips a day on a route or working that are actually struggling with standing passengers it is unlikely the income on the route will cover the extra costs of running a double-decker all day. Often it is better, from both cost and operational management perspectives, where loadings stretch a single-decker to dupe rather than buy a double-decker as you aren't incurring extra running costs over the rest of the week, a restriction on how you compile your schedules and have an asset that can only be used on specific workings.

 

[daodao]

They are more expensive to buy, more expensive to operate, restricted on what routes they can be allocated to and, in the case of Centrebus/D&G, about half the depots either can't accomodate them at all or have major restrictions on such so they produce all sorts of restrictions. Also, for a company like Centrebus/D&G, very few routes actually justify double-deckers on any trips let alone able to cover the extra running costs over the full operating day, you simply need the work to justify enough of them to have a useful fleet. If you only have one or two peak trips a day on a route or working that are actually struggling with standing passengers it is unlikely the income on the route will cover the extra costs of running a double-decker all day. Often it is better, from both cost and operational management perspectives, where loadings stretch a single-decker to dupe rather than buy a double-decker as you aren't incurring extra running costs over the rest of the week, a restriction on how you compile your schedules and have an asset that can only be used on specific workings.

Very well put. I agree with D&G not using double deck buses.

Arriva, the previous operator of bus services in Central and Eastern Cheshire, did have a few double deck buses. However, there are several low bridges in the area, such as the one coming into Macclesfield town centre from the Bollington/Hurdsfield/Forest Cottage direction. In March 2011, a driver managed to remove the top deck of an Arriva double deck bus coming into Macclesfield from Hurdsfield on former route 21 (now part of D&G route 10 from Bollington), fortunately without causing any serious injuries.

 

[Simon75]

Would the 32A Alton Towers require a larger bus, as often gets busy ?
Also why the X41 operated by D&G not Chaserider ? There has been facebook requests to extend from Stafford to Cannock

 

[dsjs1990]

Would the 32A Alton Towers require a larger bus, as often gets busy ?
Also why the X41 operated by D&G not Chaserider ? There has been facebook requests to extend from Stafford to Cannock

Towards the end of the last Alton Towers season, a Chaserider bus was running the X41 and then some trips on the 32/32A.

Will be interesting to see if this happens when the service restarts

 

[semppec]

The garage as Crewe cannot accommodate deckers due to the maintenance bays there. I don't think they can fit inside. The use of deckers isn't needed on every service though, that's where Arriva failed as they were running fresh air around. The one thing D&G do need to do is keep the same buses on the 31 & 37, and not stick smaller buses on at times. Ideally having the 73 plate E200mmc and Enviro200 64 plates on the routes. There's 1 of the new 74 plate Volvo Evora that's on the routes also.

It's meant to be 6 vehicles on the 37, we of the 73 plates, 1 evora with 577 and 5201 but 5201 seems to be breaking down all the time and 577 hasn't been in service for a while

 

[Martin1988]

I spent a few days in Crewe last month and noticed the 37 and 38 seem to operate once an hour but combine to form a half hourly frequency between Crewe and Sandbach. A few years ago there seemed to be 4 buses an hour on this corridor when Arriva were still present but can't recall if Arriva mainly duplicated D&G or spaced out their journeys. Would you say an hourly frequency on each route is sufficient providing the right capacity vehicles are used or should it be a half hourly frequency on each route (and a common 15 minute frequency between Crewe and Sandbach)?

Also ended up doing a trip on that 42 journey from Congleton to Crewe that gets overloaded with school passengers. If D&G know this service overloads at school times why isn't a higher capacity bus allocated to this journey or a duplicate used?

 

[sonic2009]

It's meant to be 6 vehicles on the 37, we of the 73 plates, 1 evora with 577 and 5201 but 5201 seems to be breaking down all the time and 577 hasn't been in service for a while

577 was out last Wednesday 12th March. But not seen since.

 

[semppec]

I spent a few days in Crewe last month and noticed the 37 and 38 seem to operate once an hour but combine to form a half hourly frequency between Crewe and Sandbach. A few years ago there seemed to be 4 buses an hour on this corridor when Arriva were still present but can't recall if Arriva mainly duplicated D&G or spaced out their journeys. Would you say an hourly frequency on each route is sufficient providing the right capacity vehicles are used or should it be a half hourly frequency on each route (and a common 15 minute frequency between Crewe and Sandbach)?

Also ended up doing a trip on that 42 journey from Congleton to Crewe that gets overloaded with school passengers. If D&G know this service overloads at school times why isn't a higher capacity bus allocated to this journey or a duplicate used?

Ah yes the shadow buses! Loved the 37A/W as they worked very well. They used to run a 42 school bus too years ago. Even if D&G don't have double deckers they could at least run another bus and have it follow each other as you say it would help a lot during school times but as the 42 seems to have macclesfield drivers on it now due to the driver shortage it seems they can't supply an extra bus. It's a shame we have a not great company operating round here now and I, along with many people probably miss Arriva too. Don't get me wrong Arriva wasn't all sunshine and rainbows but D&G seems to be worse at the moment, such a shame

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Mar 2025 ==

577 was out last Wednesday 12th March. But not seen since.

Just been told by a driver 5201 and 577 are having issues but they should be out again soon

 

[sonic2009]

But as the 42 seems to have macclesfield drivers on it now due to the driver shortage it seems they can't supply an extra bus. It's a shame we have a not great company operating round here now and I, along with many people probably miss Arriva too. Don't get me wrong Arriva wasn't all sunshine and rainbows but D&G seems to be worse at the moment, such a shame

The 42 is going to be a Macclesfield depot bus from April I believe. I think Macclesfield have spare drivers, as they lost the route that ran in Manchester. Whilst I agree D&G do seem to be running some services wrong at the moment, I would say Arriva weren't the best towards the end, and I'm certain the depots in Winsford and Macclesfield never made any money.

If you look at the investment that's been made in D&G fleet for Crewe depot then I'd say there's obviously something good going on.