D&G Buses

[James101]

D&G have a fundamental problem with communicating ticket validity to drivers. Moreover, they have seemingly no effective policy of telling drivers to lean in favour of the passenger where ticket validity is uncertain. Clearly out of date or boundary would be still be refused.

I was recently denied boarding the 17:56 X41 between Uttoxeter and Stafford. The driver insisted it was a ‘private contract’ bus and was in no way permitted to sell me a single ticket. He went to the extent of exaggerating that the company monitor the CCTV and he would lose his job. He was unmoved when I reminded him this was the final service of the day and I would be stuck. The next day D&G’s office of course confirmed regular fares can be sold and passes accepted on the X41 for all journeys not boarding or alighting at Alton Towers.

D&G also display their own timetables on Cheadle High Street, including having the Hanley bound 32X/A at the Tean/Uttoxeter stop. Falling victim to this, a kind driver waved me up the road to the correct stop for Hanley journeys. He claimed it happens regularly and he’s told the office, who have neglected to remove the misleading display.

 

[markymark2000]

I was recently denied boarding the 17:56 X41 between Uttoxeter and Stafford. The driver insisted it was a ‘private contract’ bus and was in no way permitted to sell me a single ticket. He went to the extent of exaggerating that the company monitor the CCTV and he would loose his job. He was unmoved when I reminded him this was the final service of the day and I would be stuck. The next day D&G’s office of course confirmed regular fares can be sold and passes accepted on the X41 for all journeys not boarding or alighting at Alton Towers.

Technically you shouldn't have boarded the X41 at Uttoxeter as it's marked as set down only. There is an 'R' next to all of the times on that journey and at the bottom of the timetable there is a note that says R means the stop is only served on request of passengers boarding at Alton Towers (essentially meaning it is set down only). If this is registered as set down only with the traffic commissioner, the operator could get in trouble for picking you up. D&G need to make up their mind. The X41 is an absolute mess and could be significantly improved by removing the set down only and then cross promoting it on the 841 timetable and accept Chaserider tickets so then it boosts the timetable of a core service that D&G/Chaserider have ran down for a number of years. Instead they insist it's kept separate and never the two shall meet. Standard bizarre behaviour from D&G.

 

[mangad]

In defence of the driver (who probably could have dealt with this a lot better by the sounds of it). Sunbank lane is the penultimate stop in Greater Manchester in the direction they were heading at the time, they are heading away from Altrincham. I’d question (a little more constructively perhaps) any passenger boarding there with a plusbus given they can only go another couple of hundred metres on it.

Ah, I misread the original post and read it as the bus was going the other way. Whoops!

 

[James101]

Technically you shouldn't have boarded the X41 at Uttoxeter as it's marked as set down only. There is an 'R' next to all of the times on that journey and at the bottom of the timetable there is a note that says R means the stop is only served on request of passengers boarding at Alton Towers (essentially meaning it is set down only). If this is registered as set down only with the traffic commissioner, the operator could get in trouble for picking you up. D&G need to make up their mind. The X41 is an absolute mess and could be significantly improved by removing the set down only and then cross promoting it on the 841 timetable and accept Chaserider tickets so then it boosts the timetable of a core service that D&G/Chaserider have ran down for a number of years. Instead they insist it's kept separate and never the two shall meet. Standard bizarre behaviour from D&G.
View attachment 163207

I would disagree that the code R means set down only, I think you’ve attached meaning that isn’t there. ‘Set down only’ or ‘Bus only calls for passengers to alight’ would mean this.

Your extract of the timetable has cropped out the line below which explicitly explains the stopping arrangements include Uttoxeter Bus Station.

I agree it’s open for confusion, however the driver’s attitude and refusal to reach out to a supervisor for clarification on the matter, leaving a passenger abandoned, is a poor representation of D&G’s training.

 

[Travelmonkey]

Theme park money grab springs to my mind, similar to Sulivans with their Thorpe park contract. It's more a focus on the paying passenger although Thorpe park has a regular passenger service from Whitebus & Falcon on the main road.

 

[mangad]

And wouldn't the "consumer contract" be with the scheme organisers, not the operator, given it is their product that has been purchased? In which case you could raise with PlusBus that the boundary map isn't clear enough and a list of boundary stops needs to be supplied.

Whilst the PDFs they publish are not that clear, there is an interactive map on the PlusBus website that has a toggle on it to highlight bus stops. As such, on their website you can see every single bus stop that's in the boundary. The map below shows a marker for the two bus stops closest to Airport Inn that are in the zone. Airport Inn is in the shaded area to the right and its stops are out of the zone.

 

[markymark2000]

I would disagree that the code R means set down only, I think you’ve attached meaning that isn’t there. ‘Set down only’ or ‘Bus only calls for passengers to alight’ would mean this.

If it is only stopping 'on request of those boarding at Alton Towers', are you suggesting that the wording means it's open to luck then. Bus will pick you up but only if you are at a stop where someone is wanting to get off? Because that if what it means if you take it literally. In the bus world, there are a number of ways of describing things and this seems to be another variation of 'only stops on request of those onboard' which in reality means it is drop off only. Sadly the industry hasn't decided to standardise on wording for this.

Also of note, D&Gs open data for fares suggests that the only tickets available on the X41 are the expensive returns with no cheaper local fares available.

Your extract of the timetable has cropped out the line below which explicitly explains the stopping arrangements include Uttoxeter Bus Station.

Granted, I didn't see that one. Why put on the timetable then that it will only stop there on request of passengers boarding at Alton Towers. Do D&G even know how it is meant to operate?

Theme park money grab springs to my mind, similar to Sulivans with their Thorpe park contract, its more a focus on the paying passenger although Thorpe park has a regular passenger service from Whitebus & Falcon on the main road Alton towers being so out in the sticks is Us or walk for D&G,

100% Theme park money grab. Especially if you read my trip report too of buses leaving full and standing due to D&G refusing to provide enough capacity.

Thorpe Park I think is different. Thorpe Park works off an exclusivity contract thing with Sullivans for the bus stop at the front of the park. Alton Towers seems to be different as the 32A conveys normal passengers and over time, there have been various companies running buses into the park without them being specifically linking to the nearest town or train stations, I am thinking Hulleys and Notts & Derby for example. I think there may be some contract but I don't think it would be as tight as the Thorpe Park. Happy to be corrected as this is just my thoughts, I've nothing to back up the access agreements for Alton Towers.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I would disagree that the code R means set down only, I think you’ve attached meaning that isn’t there. ‘Set down only’ or ‘Bus only calls for passengers to alight’ would mean this.

Your extract of the timetable has cropped out the line below which explicitly explains the stopping arrangements include Uttoxeter Bus Station.

I agree it’s open for confusion, however the driver’s attitude and refusal to reach out to a supervisor for clarification on the matter, leaving a passenger abandoned, is a poor representation of D&G’s training.

I'm afraid you've misunderstood the "missing" line and the R designation. R means the service only stops there if requested by someone already on the bus when it leaves Alton Towers, as stated. That makes the service set down only (otherwise you would be waiting at a stop hoping that somebody on board had requested the stop. The "missing" paragraph simply means that bus completely ignores any stops between Uttoxter and Weston (exclusive), regardless of anybody requesting them.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

D&G have a fundamental problem with communicating ticket validity to drivers. Moreover, they have seemingly no effective policy of telling drivers to lean in favour of the passenger where ticket validity is uncertain. Clearly out of date or boundary would be still be refused.

I was recently denied boarding the 17:56 X41 between Uttoxeter and Stafford. The driver insisted it was a ‘private contract’ bus and was in no way permitted to sell me a single ticket. He went to the extent of exaggerating that the company monitor the CCTV and he would lose his job. He was unmoved when I reminded him this was the final service of the day and I would be stuck. The next day D&G’s office of course confirmed regular fares can be sold and passes accepted on the X41 for all journeys not boarding or alighting at Alton Towers.

D&G also display their own timetables on Cheadle High Street, including having the Hanley bound 32X/A at the Tean/Uttoxeter stop. Falling victim to this, a kind driver waved me up the road to the correct stop for Hanley journeys. He claimed it happens regularly and he’s told the office, who have neglected to remove the misleading display.

Oh for goodness sake. How to lose customers. D & G have installed Captcha (or similar) and I have to verify I am human just to look at their timetables!

On that basis, as I recall without the above humanity verification, you can board the bus in the morning and travel to the stop before Alton Towers (Farley Lane, Alton Towers Gate 01, the clue is in the stop name!) at normal fares (£2 government fare) or get off inside Alton Towers at premium fares (£10 single). On the 32A you can do the same and also travel through Alton Towers and alight at the stop immediately after the theme park at normal fares. Sensible it isn't. Enforceable, well that depends on whether the driver remembers what ticket you ticket bought when you boarded, enforcement on the return being easier. I've caught the 32A from Cheadle heading towards Alton Towers and paid my £2 to Oakamoor or Cotton. It was quite clear that I was the only non theme park passenger on board, perhaps as an older person wearing hiking boots and carrying a rucksack it was obvious I was not trying it on.

D&G Bus Network Return, weekly and four-weekly tickets, and The Knot tickets are not valid for travel to or from Alton Towers, but are valid for travel between other points along the route.

 

[Travelmonkey]

As much as I want to like D&G they have certainly not caught up to the digital age, even their sister op Chaserider has their social media's to update on goings on,

 

[markymark2000]

As much as I want to like D&G they have certainly not caught up to the digital age, even their sister op Chaserider has their social media's to update on goings on,

D&G still haven't put on an update regarding the Wells Green diversion on route 84X. You'd think considering it's a competing route they would have the will power to put up a basic service update on this fancy new website. Oh how wrong you'd be.

D&G has so much potential to be a decent operator but they just lack any will power to be a good operator.

 

[James101]

I'm afraid you've misunderstood the "missing" line and the R designation. R means the service only stops there if requested by someone already on the bus when it leaves Alton Towers, as stated. That makes the service set down only (otherwise you would be waiting at a stop hoping that somebody on board had requested the stop. The "missing" paragraph simply means that bus completely ignores any stops between Uttoxter and Weston (exclusive), regardless of anybody requesting them.

I’ve lost the thread around what you mean by the missing line.

The note means what it states, no more or less. So yes, passengers should understand that the bus is not guaranteed to stop at Uttoxeter bus station, but if it should stop, there is nothing in that timetable telling them they will be refused boarding.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

Oh for goodness sake. How to lose customers. D & G have installed Captcha (or similar) and I have to verify I am human just to look at their timetables!

On that basis, as I recall without the above humanity verification, you can board the bus in the morning and travel to the stop before Alton Towers (Farley Lane, Alton Towers Gate 01, the clue is in the stop name!) at normal fares (£2 government fare) or get off inside Alton Towers at premium fares (£10 single). On the 32A you can do the same and also travel through Alton Towers and alight at the stop immediately after the theme park at normal fares. Sensible it isn't. Enforceable, well that depends on whether the driver remembers what ticket you ticket bought when you boarded, enforcement on the return being easier. I've caught the 32A from Cheadle heading towards Alton Towers and paid my £2 to Oakamoor or Cotton. It was quite clear that I was the only non theme park passenger on board, perhaps as an older person wearing hiking boots and carrying a rucksack it was obvious I was not trying it on.

I have also rode the 32A through Alton Towers on the 17:00 from Uttoxeter to Hanley. Received mild pushback from the driver over the validity of a Knot ticket, stating it wasn’t valid to Alton Towers, even though I was travelling through the resort and the route’s deviation to the park had no relevance to my Uttox-Hanley journey. I’d have thought a simple reference to fares on the duty board would solve all such issues.

Their website is the typical problem of an organisation not testing something from the customer perspective.

 

[Travelmonkey]

D&G still haven't put on an update regarding the Wells Green diversion on route 84X. You'd think considering it's a competing route they would have the will power to put up a basic service update on this fancy new website. Oh how wrong you'd be.

D&G has so much potential to be a decent operator but they just lack any will power to be a good operator.

Indeed, just checked

*Image: screen grab of the D&G service update page "no service updates to report at present*

Definitely need to work their recourses better,

 

[SeanM1997]

D&G still haven't put on an update regarding the Wells Green diversion on route 84X. You'd think considering it's a competing route they would have the will power to put up a basic service update on this fancy new website. Oh how wrong you'd be.

D&G has so much potential to be a decent operator but they just lack any will power to be a good operator.

D&Gs website still show the Sunday timetable on the 84X despite that being cut. It's not on the downloadable PDF but that's not what everyone sees first

 

[Pub]

Just noticed on Crewe bus users Facebook post Wincham depot has now closed and drivers transfered to Maccesfield or Crewe. Wincham is still being used as a rest area. Does anyone know how much dead running this will cause?

Crewe & District Bus Users Group. | Well Wincham depot has officially closed its gates as a depot | Facebook

Well Wincham depot has officially closed its gates as a depot. I was with you on day one and today I took the last bus out 35. Still open a driver rest area for now but as a depot it is no more. Good...

www.facebook.com

Well Wincham depot has officially closed its gates as a depot. I was with you on day one and today I took the last bus out 35. Still open a driver rest area for now but as a depot it is no more. Good luck to all the drivers who are moving over to Macclesfield and Crewe

 

[PaulWC]

As well as the Nantwich rural services 70-73 being replaced by Cheshire Easts Go-Too service from September 1st, D&G are taking over the 41 Chester to Whitchurch service from Aintree Coachlines. There's a few other alterations to other services, with some due to school and college changes.

Service Updates | D&G Bus

www.dgbus.co.uk

 

[markymark2000]

As well as the Nantwich rural services 70-73 being replaced by Cheshire Easts Go-Too service from September 1st,

I suppose that is one way to get more people using a stupidly expensive DRT scheme, cut all of the scheduled bus services and force people to use the stupid thing. Never fails to amaze me how stupid councils are when it comes to this sort of thing.

D&G are taking over the 41 Chester to Whitchurch service from Aintree Coachlines. There's a few other alterations to other services, with some due to school and college changes.

Service Updates | D&G Bus

www.dgbus.co.uk

Very interesting. Kind of surprised they won the 41. It's a shame that they are amending the route though, most people get the 41 at Foregate Street and now rather than having a quick direct journey out of the city, they are forced to plod around the train station for barely any passengers.

 

[JKP]

I suppose that is one way to get more people using a stupidly expensive DRT scheme, cut all of the scheduled bus services and force people to use the stupid thing. Never fails to amaze me how stupid councils are when it comes to this sort of thing.


Very interesting. Kind of surprised they won the 41. It's a shame that they are amending the route though, most people get the 41 at Foregate Street and now rather than having a quick direct journey out of the city, they are forced to plod around the train station for barely any passengers.

Agreed, it should start at the Railway Station then city centre. I am surprised that there is no bus into either Chester or Whitchurch on Saturday mornings for workers.

DRT probably funded through BSIP or other DfT funding which councils cannot resist. It will probably lose passengers rather than gain any new ones.

 

[markymark2000]

Agreed, should start at the Railway Station then city centre. Am surprised that there is no bus into either Chester or Whitchurch on Saturday mornings for workers.

Whitchurch has always been a bit of an odd one as I believe that Shropshire Council won't fund any part of the 41 and so understandably Cheshire West are only bothered about the Cheshire West parts and Whitchurch falls outside of that. It's never had a great service to Whitchurch for as long as I can remember. And to be fair, I think other buses in Whitchurch confirm that people there just don't want to use the bus. All they have is the town circular, hourly 511/512 to Shrewsbury and the very infrequent 146 to Wrexham (which in itself is built around school times, not built for commuting in or out of Whitchurch).
Chester though is a surprise, I hope that Cheshire West made the decisions for cutting those trips based off actual passenger data rather than oversight.

 

[Pub]

Agreed, it should start at the Railway Station then city centre. I am surprised that there is no bus into either Chester or Whitchurch on Saturday mornings for workers.

DRT probably funded through BSIP or other DfT funding which councils cannot resist. It will probably lose passengers rather than gain any new ones.

Funded through DfT rural mobility fund see https://www.go-too.co.uk
Fares are £3 per journey for adults and £2 per jourmey for under 16s and pass holders, therefore a significatant increase for pass holders who currently travel free

 

[daodao]

As well as the Nantwich rural services 70-73 being replaced by Cheshire Easts Go-Too service from September 1st, D&G are taking over the 41 Chester to Whitchurch service from Aintree Coachlines. There's a few other alterations to other services, with some due to school and college changes.

Service Updates | D&G Bus

www.dgbus.co.uk

The withdrawal of routes 70-73 is probably about saving money, as D&G currently run 2 ADL-Enviro200 buses on these routes, and the DRT service is likely to use small minibuses; the charges for using the DRT service are also increased, and will not be free for pensioners. However, some of the existing 71/72/73 journeys provide transport to Brine Leas and Malbank secondary schools in Nantwich, which may explain the current use of larger buses. How are pupils currently using these bus routes going to be provided with transport from September 2024? Incidentally, the loss of route 72/73 between Audlem and Nantwich will remove one of the last vestiges of any regular public transport along the route of the former Wellington-Market Drayton-Nantwich railway line. Wrenbury still has a railway station on the Crewe-Shrewsbury line.

Route 41's new timetable is little different from the previous one, apart from the loss of some early Saturday morning journeys which prevents use for commuting into either Chester or Whitchurch by Saturday shop workers, which the previous timetable allowed. However, Saturday commuting is generally from a bygone era and public transport and general road use on Saturdays before 10 am is now quite light. 50+ years ago, I recall that extra rush hour buses ran between 7 and 9 am and from noon to 2 pm on Saturdays, and some secondary schools and universities had Saturday morning classes. I used to work Saturday mornings on a 1 in 4 rota until 1992.

 

[PaulWC]

The Cheshire East Bus Service Review 2024 actually recommended that the 72 and 73 be retained with extensions past Nantwich along Middlewich Road to Leighton Hospital. Only the 70 and the extensions to Lightwood Green and Burleydam were to be replaced by Go-Too.

Rural Nantwich bus services face cuts under new CEC plans

Rural bus services around Nantwich could be cut under new plans unveiled by Cheshire East Council.

thenantwichnews.co.uk

Rural bus services around Nantwich could be cut under new plans unveiled by Cheshire East Council.

But a direct service from the town to Leighton Hospital looks set to be reinstated if the proposals go ahead.

Cheshire East has opened a new public consultation for its bus service review for 2024.

Rural areas to be hit most include Bunbury, Bulkeley, Lightwood Green and Burleydam.

The proposal for Nantwich rural services includes withdrawing the number 70 service between Nantwich and Tiverton

Lightwood Green and Burleydam would no longer be served on the 72 and 73 services.

But the 72 and 73 would be retained and improved on the busiest sections between Nantwich and Wrenbury and Nantwich and Audlem with many journeys extended via Middlewich Road to Leighton Hospital.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Not able to post/link here, but have seen photos on social media today of a 24-plate Volvo/Evora branded for service 9, on a publicity day in Newcastle.

 

[Trainman40083]

Not able to post/link here, but have seen photos on social media today of a 24-plate Volvo/Evora branded for service 9, on a publicity day in Newcastle.

Bustimes shows two as fleet numbers 6001 and 6002. BP24 GWY/GWZ

 

[PaulWC]

Interesting conversation on the Crewe & District Bus Users Facebook group where Laura Crane, the Vice-Chair of the Highways of Transport committee for Cheshire East Council says that D&G have made the decision to cancel the 70 to 73 Nantwich rural services and the council only found out about this a couple of days ago. Not sure why D&G would post on their own website that the axed services would be replaced by Go-Too if the council didn't even know about it.

Facebook

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My understanding of the situation is that D&G have given notice to withdraw the service. They have the legal right to do that and now the council have to decide how to proceed.
Until the government gives us power to franchise this will always be a possibility. We can only make businesses run buses if we pay them to do so and even then they can choose to withdraw from their contract with appropriate notice as is the case here. As it has only been handed in a couple of days ago the council needs a little time to decide how to proceed.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Not able to post/link here, but have seen photos on social media today of a 24-plate Volvo/Evora branded for service 9, on a publicity day in Newcastle.

Bustimes shows two as fleet numbers 6001 and 6002. BP24 GWY/GWZ

Pictures are available via the bustimes.org site. For 6001 click on the fleet list and the flickr link for a Cliff Beeton photograph. Alternatively click on 'vehicle edits' and there are links to Facebook photos of the buses (Jake Mellor / D & G bus enthusiasts). Along with a comment on whether 'Yellow 9' is the same the 'the nines'.

Also BP 24 UJB / fleet no 6004.

Confirmed by a D&G driver, based at Longton depot. Yes, private groups are not reference, but the image proves the branding is ‘the nines’ rather than Yellow 9.

 

[Simon75]

Whitchurch has always been a bit of an odd one as I believe that Shropshire Council won't fund any part of the 41 and so understandably Cheshire West are only bothered about the Cheshire West parts and Whitchurch falls outside of that. It's never had a great service to Whitchurch for as long as I can remember. And to be fair, I think other buses in Whitchurch confirm that people there just don't want to use the bus. All they have is the town circular, hourly 511/512 to Shrewsbury and the very infrequent 146 to Wrexham (which in itself is built around school times, not built for commuting in or out of Whitchurch).
Chester though is a surprise, I hope that Cheshire West made the decisions for cutting those trips based off actual passenger data rather than oversight.

There was a service by D&G a few years ago from Nantwich to Whitchurch, but that was withdrawn

 

[Pub]

Interesting conversation on the Crewe & District Bus Users Facebook group where Laura Crane, the Vice-Chair of the Highways of Transport committee for Cheshire East Council says that D&G have made the decision to cancel the 70 to 73 Nantwich rural services and the council only found out about this a couple of days ago. Not sure why D&G would post on their own website that the axed services would be replaced by Go-Too if the council didn't even know about it.

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As of yesterday Sunday nothing on Cheshire East Bus service alterations page. I thought 28days notice had to be given for a service to be withdrawn, could be wrong about the time period

 

[Lewisham2221]

As of yesterday Sunday nothing on Cheshire East Bus service alterations page. I thought 28days notice had to be given for a service to be withdrawn, could be wrong about the time period

Notice has to be given (used to be 56 days but that's changed now, I forget what to) to the Traffic Commissioner and local authority. AFAIK there isn't any actual specified requirement for notice to be given to the public.

 

[JKP]

Notice has to be given (used to be 56 days but that's changed now, I forget what to) to the Traffic Commissioner and local authority. AFAIK there isn't any actual specified requirement for notice to be given to the public.

70 days to the Local Authority, 42 days to the Traffic Commissioner. Unless the registration is short notice and a letter of support is obtained from the local authority or authorities. 14 days used to be the norm for notifying the public.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2024 ==

Interesting conversation on the Crewe & District Bus Users Facebook group where Laura Crane, the Vice-Chair of the Highways of Transport committee for Cheshire East Council says that D&G have made the decision to cancel the 70 to 73 Nantwich rural services and the council only found out about this a couple of days ago. Not sure why D&G would post on their own website that the axed services would be replaced by Go-Too if the council didn't even know about it.

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Are the 70 to 73 commercial or contracted? If the latter, notice would have to have been given of termination of contract. 3 months is the norm unless agreed by the LA.