Cuts to bus services in 011

[Deerfold]

Just had a good look at the details of First's bus revision a few minutes ago (previously I only read a summary) and I am absolutely SHOCKED.

Maybe we'll see a Centrebus-Arriva stand-off in the future?

I wouldn't expect so. They seem quite close - to the extent of being partners in Centrebus Holdings Limited.

 

[WatcherZero]

Just heard Leeds free city bus goes to 50p per journey from the start of April.

 

[Deerfold]

Just heard Leeds free city bus goes to 50p per journey from the start of April.

Yes, becomes the LeedsCityBus. However you'll be able to stavel for free on it if you have any operator's day or season ticket valid to or in Leeds. I can't see them taking much in fares as most people will have a pass or not bother with it.

 

[bb21]

I know it's cost cutting, and we had to have the routes combined to keep them at all - but you mention a cut from 15 minutes to 8 for a turnaround. Who could ever think you could manage with just 3 minutes?

It's all relative to how tight the schedule is isn't it? If the journeys all had an extra 5 minutes built into them, then I'm sure the drivers could manage on a 2/3 minute turnaround too.

I wouldn't expect so. They seem quite close - to the extent of being partners in Centrebus Holdings Limited.

Yes for now. Hope it lasts

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes, becomes the LeedsCityBus. However you'll be able to stavel for free on it if you have any operator's day or season ticket valid to or in Leeds. I can't see them taking much in fares as most people will have a pass or not bother with it.

What about the buses in the other towns in WY? are they gonna see what happens in Leeds and follow it in pricing or if its a disaster avoid the mistake?

 

[jon0844]

It's all relative to how tight the schedule is isn't it? If the journeys all had an extra 5 minutes built into them, then I'm sure the drivers could manage on a 2/3 minute turnaround too. /QUOTE]

Well, yes. This is why the bus company couldn't run trains. They haven't heard of padding or recovery time. In fact, it's pretty bad when they can't even factor in the time it takes to stop the bus, open the doors and let someone on or off (and pay the driver, give change etc).

Pretty basic stuff. Makes even the worst TOC look good!

 

[bb21]

It's all relative to how tight the schedule is isn't it? If the journeys all had an extra 5 minutes built into them, then I'm sure the drivers could manage on a 2/3 minute turnaround too. /QUOTE]

Well, yes. This is why the bus company couldn't run trains. They haven't heard of padding or recovery time. In fact, it's pretty bad when they can't even factor in the time it takes to stop the bus, open the doors and let someone on or off (and pay the driver, give change etc).

Pretty basic stuff. Makes even the worst TOC look good!

Yes I totally agree. At least some operators have the decency to do some padding during peak hours, many others don't even bother with that. As dwell time at stops grows longer, the timetable becomes more or less a useless sheet of paper. To give an example, my local First routes on Sunday mornings are consistently between 6-8 minutes early, on a 15-minute combined frequency, and the Arriva route? Not too bad at 6-8 minutes late consistently late on a 30-minute route.

Well you can say that if you can suss out the way they work they are almost as punctual as the railway (to the invisible timetable that it).

 

[Deerfold]

What about the buses in the other towns in WY? are they gonna see what happens in Leeds and follow it in pricing or if its a disaster avoid the mistake?

That's up to the local councils. They're usually part funded by Metro and the local council. Leeds City Council pulled its funding. Metro kept its contribution but couldn't increase it so they've come up with this idea. I suspect it'll become lower frequency or disappear as similar services have in the past (there were a few minibus links in the 80s around central Leeds which didn't last).

 

[anthony263]

Just found this on the BBC, make me wonder if the bus isnt turning up why are the operator being paid?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12945892

 

[WatcherZero]

Probably easier for them to forego the subsidy than to run it :P

Whoever subsidised it will know if it ran or not because the local authorities have access to the Bus companies internal scheduling databases so they can check and audit subsidised services.

 

[starrymarkb]

Its a volunteer operated community bus, presume the expenses are minimal

 

[causton]

It's all relative to how tight the schedule is isn't it? If the journeys all had an extra 5 minutes built into them, then I'm sure the drivers could manage on a 2/3 minute turnaround too.

Well, yes. This is why the bus company couldn't run trains. They haven't heard of padding or recovery time. In fact, it's pretty bad when they can't even factor in the time it takes to stop the bus, open the doors and let someone on or off (and pay the driver, give change etc).

Pretty basic stuff. Makes even the worst TOC look good!

Just looked at the 607 timetable in detail for the first time and times given are pretty terrible... :/ then again, if you look at most bus timetables (around here at least) they just give a vague average with some times being too much and some being way too little.
One example was the 797 timetable taking ONE MINUTE to get between three stops... one is a major stop that is always used and two that are used about 1/3 of the time. Bearing in mind the doors take about 30 seconds to open, as the vehicles used are coaches... even without accounting for tickets, sitting down, waiting at the junction and zebra crossing, even driving the bus between the stops! They sorted that out when they changed the timetable recently though.
On another note, I don't think any Uno driver could get from the bottom of Bishops Rise to the Galleria via the University (602 route evenings) in 7 minutes, stopping at every other stop.
Likewise the 614/644 on Saturdays, 3 minutes from one end of Bishops Rise to another, never gonna happen! Took about 20 minutes when Oysters were accepted as nobody at Uno really knew how to use the TfL ticket machines (despite being broadly similar to the usual Wayfarers) - the amount of time I had to say "yellow button for Child tickets" or simply got let on for free or for a £1 excess fare as they couldn't be bothered to work out the machine... sorry, drifting off topic there!

On the other hand, the 644 timed to get to Queensbury at around 9:30am got there at 9:17 when I last got it, leaving me with 13 minutes waiting outside the ticket maching waiting for an off peak travelcard.

 

[Blindtraveler]

cupple of runs in edinburgh like that, bad for padding. 35 in particular is pritty grim at morning and evening peaks and as a result always late.

 

[starrymarkb]

Just found this on the BBC, make me wonder if the bus isnt turning up why are the operator being paid?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12945892

Looking at the operators site it requires prebooking and is essentially a ring and ride service.

 

[anthony263]

Found out today that a few other small bus operators have gone under, Clarkes coaches in tredeger are one of biggest shocks.

First cymru seem to have brought the withdrawn Bristol vrt open top that they had iin Weymouth to Swansea for their new open top service to Caswell bay

 

[jon0844]

I did snigger when I saw that Uno has won a contract to provide buses for the Olympics!!

I bet that's going to work well!

 

[anthony263]

Seen that Clayton Jones owner of st davids travel ( the bumble bee liveried buses in cardiff & pontypridd) has been stripped of his operators licence, although his is planning an appeal.

Seems that a lot of local operators are planning to take on veolia routes from july

 

[causton]

I did snigger when I saw that Uno has won a contract to provide buses for the Olympics!!

I bet that's going to work well!

They'll probably do the timing run on a Sunday morning and leave a 3 minute turnaround at each end

 

[jon0844]

I did find out today that with the additional building of residential and business property, there's going to be an increase in Section 106 funding which may well solve the problem I'm having with the new bus service - no idea exactly when, but two Councillors are now on the case independently (as people who use the bus occasionally).

I think Uno has been well and truly caught out with this, so they're lucky it happened after any decision about running buses for the Olympics was made.

 

[anthony263]

Found out that First are to expand the depot in Cardiff and have rgistered some of the Veolia routes iaround Cardiff & Pontypridd.

This has caused alarm at Stagecoach cymru who are now looking at retaliating against first so there is the possiblity of stagecoach going for contracts in Swansea & carmarthenshire

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Sophie Allen's bus blog on the Campaign for Better Transport makes grim reading
http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/campaigns/public_transport/buses/blog

Over the coming year, expect plenty of council supported bus services to be scrapped. It's a miserable truth that government spending cuts will hit the hardest.

Sure there will be income tax rises for the wealthy.

But which will be tougher ?
someone who cannot drive loosing their bus service or...
someone on £2,000 per week being asked to pay an extra £20pw in income tax

Parts of what was loosely stated to be additional areas adjacent to the Greater Manchester boundaries were somewhat tenuously supported, but areas like Glossop which is in Derbyshire (that everyone assumed would still have kept associated status) have suddenly realised the implications of the deep cuts to supported services by Derbyshire County Council this month that have affected tendered services in the Glossop area.

Being based in Derby, the transport mandarins see Glossop as an outpost far removed from a "proper" Derbyshire area, in fact something like the Romans had a view of the area around Hadrians Wall...."them yokels up-north!"

 

[Greenback]

Found out that First are to expand the depot in Cardiff and have rgistered some of the Veolia routes iaround Cardiff & Pontypridd.

This has caused alarm at Stagecoach cymru who are now looking at retaliating against first so there is the possiblity of stagecoach going for contracts in Swansea & carmarthenshire

That would be very interesting!

 

[anthony263]

First cymru have recently annouced that they are withdrawing a lot of their early morning, evening & sunday services in the swansea area due to the loss of tenders.

Seems like some of these will be going to local independent operators.

 

[A0]

Parts of what was loosely stated to be additional areas adjacent to the Greater Manchester boundaries were somewhat tenuously supported, but areas like Glossop which is in Derbyshire (that everyone assumed would still have kept associated status) have suddenly realised the implications of the deep cuts to supported services by Derbyshire County Council this month that have affected tendered services in the Glossop area.

Being based in Derby, the transport mandarins see Glossop as an outpost far removed from a "proper" Derbyshire area, in fact something like the Romans had a view of the area around Hadrians Wall...."them yokels up-north!"

But, in fairness Glossop does enjoy a very good public transport link (rail) with Manchester. So whilst losing some of the bus routes may be inconvenient, it's not like it is going to be completely cut-off and inaccessible for anyone who relies on public transport.

 

[Greenback]

First cymru have recently annouced that they are withdrawing a lot of their early morning, evening & sunday services in the swansea area due to the loss of tenders.

Seems like some of these will be going to local independent operators.

Yes, and the good thing is that people are prepared to stand up and fight for bus services now in a way that they weren't even just a few years ago.

Even I am shocked at the reduction in the services to Tycoch from 3 an hour to 1!

 

[anthony263]

Yes, and the good thing is that people are prepared to stand up and fight for bus services now in a way that they weren't even just a few years ago.

Even I am shocked at the reduction in the services to Tycoch from 3 an hour to 1!

I amj waiting to see if another operator looks at running a service to Tycoch. First have lost passengers because of the prices of fares. What need to happen is for Arriva Cymru or Stagecoach to launch routes in Swansea.

Arriva run to Carmarthen & Swansea so they could open a outstation and stagecoach do run to Glyneath so they to could easily open a outstation in Swansea.

Another option would be for SWT to run services against first in Swansea. I have made the suggestion to some of the SWT drivers so i do hope the SWT management are looking at this.