Curve from Waterloo East round into Cannon Street?

[Shirleywhite]

Hi all. There is a single track curve from Waterloo East round into Cannon Street. Could anyone please point me towards any further information etc re this? Is it still used ( or even still electrified?) I think years ago this curve was double tracked? But it seems to be left as just a single ( very rusty!?) line now. i
I am just interested to learn more. Thanks in advance.

 

[JonathanH]

Is it still used ( or even still electrified?) I think years ago this curve was double tracked?

Very rarely used, but still electrified.

There was a move over it in both directions late on the evening of 6 August 2024.

The track diagrams do currently show that the signal berths have 'RUST' entered by the signallers.

 

[aftv]

ISTR it's called the Metropolitan Reversible. Unless my minds playing tricks on me again.

 

[Oxfordblues]

It might have been built to get L&SWR trains into the City when there was a line linking Waterloo to Waterloo East, presumably predating "The Drain"?

Edit: Wikipedia tells me that trains did indeed run from L&SWR lines through Waterloo/Waterloo East to Cannon Street until wiihdrawn in 1916.

 

[Gloster]

Opened as triple track 1866, reduced to double 1925 and to single In/Out Cannon Street 11-1985. Electrified November 1925.

Source: Signalling Record Society’s Signal Box Register, Volune 4 (2009), Section Y30.

Built by the SER to allow trains to serve Cannon Street and then continue to Charing Croos…even Boat Trains.

Source: London’s Termini by Alan A. Jackson.

 

[JonathanH]

It might have been built to get L&SWR trains into the City when there was a line linking Waterloo to Waterloo East, presumably predating "The Drain"?

For a long time it was primarily used as a means of getting empty stock into Cannon Street for peak services, but the Thameslink programme removed the sidings at Blackfriars and there isn't really an easy way of crossing the path of frequent Thameslink services now in any case.

 

[ls2270]

Before the London Bridge remodelling a few years ago it was used by empty stock moves after the morning/before the evening peak between Cannon Street and Blackfriars Sidings.

Also from time to time during weekend engineering work a Cannon Street to Charing Cross shuttle would run via this curve.

 

[Oxfordblues]

An interesting reference in Wikipedia: "When the SER line opened between Charing Cross and Cannon Street in 1864, it was frequented by prostitutes, who discovered the journey between the two stations was sufficiently long to service clients while paying minimum rent." Not part of the business case when the curve was proposed!

 

[MotCO]

An interesting reference in Wikipedia: "When the SER line opened between Charing Cross and Cannon Street in 1864, it was frequented by prostitutes, who discovered the journey between the two stations was sufficiently long to service clients while paying minimum rent." Not part of the business case when the curve was proposed!

Did the journey used to take longer in those days?!

I remember seeing the track used as a stabling point when I commuted to Waterloo East in the early 2000's.

 

[Omnishambles]

Isn’t is used on various ECS moves today to keep up route knowledge?

 

[35B]

Did the journey used to take longer in those days?!

I remember seeing the track used as a stabling point when I commuted to Waterloo East in the early 2000's.

I saw that in (I think) HP White’s Regional History volume on London. Not sure about journey times but no corridors, compartments and blinds were quite convenient!

 

[etr221]

My understanding is that before WW1/electrification, the majority of SER (later SECR) services to Charing Cross did run via Cannon Street, hence the direct line being only double track: it did not need quadrupling when the rest of the line was done. And post electrification, its usage diminished over the years, as others have stated. A query though: when did it, officially or actually, cease to be a 'passenger' line, in regular use for passenger trains? (It remained in periodic use for diversions if engineering work prevented direct London Bridge - Waterloo E trains until fairly recently.

While there was an intention, or at least a proposal, that there would be a regular service from the LSWR through to Cannon Street, my understanding is that the connection from Waterloo (LSWR) to Waterloo Junction/East (SER) was only ever used occaisionally, for special workings. I believe its last use was to convey a vanload of drawings from Ashford Works to the Southern Railway's CME offices at Waterloo shortly after grouping.

 

[JonathanH]

Isn’t is used on various ECS moves today to keep up route knowledge?

No. As I pointed out above, open data suggests nearly three months have elapsed since it was last used, and that was by an engineering train with the reporting code 3Z07.

The moves from Hither Green to the area and back on 6 August 2024 are shown here but the passage over the curve doesn't appear to have been timetabled.

https://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/livetrain/U19959/06/08/24
https://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/livetrain/U20014/07/08/24

Evidence is the move from signal berth 2708 to 2704 here https://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackI...&Berth=2704&AutoRefresh=False&HideEmpty=False

 

[ls2270]

No. As I pointed out above, open data suggests nearly three months have elapsed since it was last used, and that was by an engineering train with the reporting code 3Z07.

The moves from Hither Green to the area and back on 6 August 2024 are shown here but the passage over the curve doesn't appear to have been timetabled.

https://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/livetrain/U19959/06/08/24
https://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/livetrain/U20014/07/08/24

Evidence is the move from signal berth 2708 to 2704 here https://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackI...&Berth=2704&AutoRefresh=False&HideEmpty=False

3Z07 is a Track Recording MPV which usually intensively records a dense area of track in a particular area. It frequently has a schedule from wherever it is based to and from where it’s recording but the intricate detail of the lines in the recording area is handled at the time by the controlling signaller around other services.

 

[Bald Rick]

A query though: when did it, officially or actually, cease to be a 'passenger' line, in regular use for passenger trains?

I remember a period in the mid to late 80s (1980s!) when there was a Charing Cross - Cannon St Shuttle that used the curve, every half hour I think. The link was definitely in the NSE map of the time. Suspect it was pre Thameslink.

 

[AM9]

Did the journey used to take longer in those days?

Or does the trade take longer to service clients these days?

 

[Harpo]

I remember a period in the mid to late 80s (1980s!) when there was a Charing Cross - Cannon St Shuttle that used the curve, every half hour I think. The link was definitely in the NSE map of the time. Suspect it was pre Thameslink.

I certainly did it on a service train in that era. My hazy memory was of a weekend shuttle due to engineering work diverting services to Cannon Street??

 

[30907]

I remember a period in the mid to late 80s (1980s!) when there was a Charing Cross - Cannon St Shuttle that used the curve, every half hour I think. The link was definitely in the NSE map of the time. Suspect it was pre Thameslink.

Done during engineering work, certainly (which is when I did it).
Further back, the 1958 timetable has a 12.53am CHX-CST-LBG continuing to Dartford via the North Kent, even on Sunday nights. The last trains from CST were otherwise before 10.30pm.
(It cross-connected at LBG with a 1am Holborn-Bromley N, equally unusual - even more so when it was then extended to Orpington in the 70s, reversing at Grove Pk.)

I'm not sure when it ceased to run via CST, certainly by the late 60s.

 

[35B]

Looking at the difference between Quail/Trackmaps Southern 1st edition (1994) and 5th edition (2024), the shape of Metropolitan Junction has been changed signficantly. The curve now emerges onto the Down Snow Hill at 1m31c, and then Charing Cross bound trains must go 14c to use the trailing crossover to head inbound. The previous layout (pre "Thameslink 2000") offered much more direct access into the Up & Down slow lines to Charing Cross, causing much less disruption.

My memories are also of doing the line during engineering work, as well as on at least one railtour (last train from Holborn Viaduct).

 

[Shirleywhite]

Many many thanks for all the above interesting posts and further explanations. Had no idea (obviously?!) re the "prostitutes" story.
Thanks again to all who took trouble to reply.
Shirleywhite.

 

[Sunil_P]

I did this route in both directions I think one weekend in 2012, from Cannon Street to Waterloo East and back. Engineering works I suppose.

 

[Rhinojerry]

Hi all. There is a single track curve from Waterloo East round into Cannon Street. Could anyone please point me towards any further information etc re this? Is it still used ( or even still electrified?) I think years ago this curve was double tracked? But it seems to be left as just a single ( very rusty!?) line now. i
I am just interested to learn more. Thanks in advance.

There is a video on you tube,very grainy,of a working from Charing Cross to Cannon St through Waterloo East.Macs Tracks is the one to search for.

 

[Jan Mayen]

It's been rusty for a while
See this thread from March 2022:

Are any trains booked to use the Waterloo East to Cannon Street direct route?

Before the Thameslink upgrade, South Eastern trains were occasionally diverted via Cannon Street when the line was closed between Ewer Street and Metropolitan Junctions for engineering work . (I may have the names of the junctions wrong). Since the additional lines were put in, I assume that...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Russel]

Looking at Google Maps, although the rails are clearly rusty from lack of use, the ballast and sleepers look fairly new, like it's been re-laid recently, this seems a strange thing to do for a curve that sees so little use, unless the track was completely life expired...

 

[43066]

Looking at Google Maps, although the rails are clearly rusty from lack of use, the ballast and sleepers look fairly new, like it's been re-laid recently, this seems a strange thing to do for a curve that sees so little use, unless the track was completely life expired...

The whole area was relaid as part of the Thameslink rebuild, still less than a decade ago, and that curve has seen very little use since.