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Southeastern too. HS1is still one per hour rather than two (and very busy).
All Metro routes still see fewer services eg two per hour through Greenwich rather than four. Lowest service levels for decades. Other lines lost their fast services or see half the service to some terminals as pre 2022 eg Bexleyheath line. Quite a few lines thinned out and gradually restored but plenty of services remain absent.
Victoria to Orpington is finally back to 4tph but not on Saturdays. All a bit piecemeal so far and some way to go
Southeastern too. HS1is still one per hour rather than two (and very busy).
All Metro routes still see fewer services eg two per hour through Greenwich rather than four. Lowest service levels for decades. Other lines lost their fast services or see half the service to some terminals as pre 2022 eg Bexleyheath line. Quite a few lines thinned out and gradually restored but plenty of services never have.
Over 800 passengers on the 06:30 Norwich-Liverpool St yesterday after it departed Colchester. Station car parks are all very healthy again Tuesday-Thursday and increasingly on Mondays too. Even Manningtree station car park which was controversially extended again in 2020 and has never come close to its potential is now getting that way.
Southeastern too. HS1is still one per hour rather than two (and very busy).
All Metro routes still see fewer services eg two per hour through Greenwich rather than four. Lowest service levels for decades. Other lines lost their fast services or see half the service to some terminals as pre 2022 eg Bexleyheath line. Quite a few lines thinned out and gradually restored but plenty of services remain absent.
Victoria to Orpington is finally back to 4tph but not on Saturdays. All a bit piecemeal so far and some way to go
It was more down to nowhere to stable the stock at Ashford. Ashford still exists as a traincrew depot AIUI but they work trains on the Orpington/Sevenoaks routes.
Wrong I'm afraid. Go take a look at a 2020 timetable and then the current one. Southeastern are operating fewer services on HS1 and many Metro routes.
Where are the two fasts that used to run direct from New Eltham to London Bridge each hour? Gone and not back.
The Bexleyheath line trains to Charing Cross? Was 2tph and now 1tph.
The two trains per hour that ran from Woolwich to LBG via Greenwich? Used to be six tph through Greenwich and now 4 including Thameslink.
That's just the three Dartford lines. All have reduced services not restored. It's now better than 2023 but someway below 2020.
Hayes is probably the closest to what it was but hasn't some evening services been reduced? The Dartford lines also saw evening services thinned out. Vic to Orp almost back to normal but needs 4tph on Saturdays.
Wrong I'm afraid. Go take a look at a 2020 timetable and then the current one. Southeastern are operating fewer services on HS1 and many Metro routes.
Where are the two fasts that used to run direct from New Eltham to London Bridge each hour? Gone and not back.
The Bexleyheath line trains to Charing Cross? Was 2tph and now 1tph.
The two trains per hour that ran from Woolwich to LBG via Greenwich? Used to be six tph through Greenwich and now 4 including Thameslink.
That's just the three Dartford lines. All have reduced services not restored. It's now better than 2023 but someway below 2020.
Hayes is probably the closest to what it was but hasn't some evening services been reduced? The Dartford lines also saw evening services thinned out. Vic to Orp almost back to normal but needs 4tph on Saturdays.
Wrong I'm afraid. Go take a look at a 2020 timetable and then the current one. Southeastern are operating fewer services on HS1 and many Metro routes.
Where are the two fasts that used to run direct from New Eltham to London Bridge each hour? Gone and not back.
The Bexleyheath line trains to Charing Cross? Was 2tph and now 1tph.
The two trains per hour that ran from Woolwich to LBG via Greenwich? Used to be six tph through Greenwich and now 4 including Thameslink.
That's just the three Dartford lines. All have reduced services not restored. It's now better than 2023 but someway below 2020.
Hayes is probably the closest to what it was but hasn't some evening services been reduced? The Dartford lines also saw evening services thinned out. Vic to Orp almost back to normal but needs 4tph on Saturdays.
Just looked up the data in ORR table 1253 for SouthEastern
July-Sep 2019 (pre covid) 66.798,351 vehicle km
July-Sep 2024 (latest data) 63,426,693 vehicle km
So at 94.95% of pre covid levels
Data for other operators July-Sep 2024 vs 2019
Chiltern 77.81%
South Western 82.02%
Scotrail 83.08%
LNER 83.11%
Cross Country 84.23%
Thameslink 87.1%
Northern 90.57%
Avanti 91.52%
C2C 94.27%
South Eastern 94.95%
GWR 96.79%
Caledonian sleeper 98.42%
West Midlands 99.33%
Heathrow Express 103.9%
Anglia 105.2%
East Midlands 106.0%
Merseyrail 113.3%
Grand Central 115.6%
TfW 121.8%
London Overground 123.4%
Hull trains 126.2%
TransPennine 130.0%
Elizabeth line 337.5%
Lumo (n/a as nil in 2019)
The average (all operators) is 95.53% (854.7m / 816.5m) vehicle km
Just looked up the data in ORR table 1253 for SouthEastern
July-Sep 2019 (pre covid) 66.798,351 vehicle km
July-Sep 2024 (latest data) 63,426,693 vehicle km
So at 94.95% of pre covid levels
Data for other operators July-Sep 2024 vs 2019
Chiltern 77.81%
South Western 82.02%
Scotrail 83.08%
LNER 83.11%
Cross Country 84.23%
Thameslink 87.1%
Northern 90.57%
Avanti 91.52%
C2C 94.27%
South Eastern 94.95%
GWR 96.79%
Caledonian sleeper 98.42%
West Midlands 99.33%
Heathrow Express 103.9%
Anglia 105.2%
East Midlands 106.0%
Merseyrail 113.3%
Grand Central 115.6%
TfW 121.8%
London Overground 123.4%
Hull trains 126.2%
TransPennine 130.0%
Elizabeth line 337.5%
Lumo (n/a as nil in 2019)
The average (all operators) is 95.53% (854.7m / 816.5m) vehicle km
Just looked up the data in ORR table 1253 for SouthEastern
July-Sep 2019 (pre covid) 66.798,351 vehicle km
July-Sep 2024 (latest data) 63,426,693 vehicle km
So at 94.95% of pre covid levels
Data for other operators July-Sep 2024 vs 2019
Chiltern 77.81%
South Western 82.02%
Scotrail 83.08%
LNER 83.11%
Cross Country 84.23%
Thameslink 87.1%
Northern 90.57%
Avanti 91.52%
C2C 94.27%
South Eastern 94.95%
GWR 96.79%
Caledonian sleeper 98.42%
West Midlands 99.33%
Heathrow Express 103.9%
Anglia 105.2%
East Midlands 106.0%
Merseyrail 113.3%
Grand Central 115.6%
TfW 121.8%
London Overground 123.4%
Hull trains 126.2%
TransPennine 130.0%
Elizabeth line 337.5%
Lumo (n/a as nil in 2019)
The average (all operators) is 95.53% (854.7m / 816.5m) vehicle km
Bookham and Dorking are still hourly vice half hourly from Waterloo. The Hounslow circulars don't run off peak. There are a few routes on South Eastern that are still less frequent than five years ago. Faversham to Dover is hourly, as is Sittingbourne to Sheerness off peak.
It was more down to nowhere to stable the stock at Ashford. Ashford still exists as a traincrew depot AIUI but they work trains on the Orpington/Sevenoaks routes.
I have a suspicion at least part of the reason was insufficient class 700/0s. Rainham-Luton requires a lot of units, and taking over Charing Cross-Gillingham wasn’t envisaged as part of the original proposals. Being a late change the fleet wasn’t sized accordingly. Rather conveniently this then avoided having to address issues such as stabling, or whether Cambridge-Maidstone could be made to operate reliably.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
The core GN-side TL services are at 2019 levels, and in fact never really lost these except in the very height of the early Covid days. That said, they are rather prone to crew-related cancellations, but they were in 2019 too.
It’s the non-TL services that have taken something of a hit.
* The KX to Cambridge stopping service was unscathed as a result of Covid itself, but has been cut back since, with midday, Saturday and evening services halved between Letchworth and Cambridge, and perhaps more problematic is the service out of King’s Cross in the later evening is now hourly. To be fair the Letchworth terminations aren’t really a massive problem, but the lack of evening services is.
* The peak Baldock services have only just been reintroduced, and still only half of them - and all these now run to/from Letchworth. The three evening runs from London to Baldock are also missing.
* Still some peak Peterborough extras missing, and all bar one of the ones that do run are 8 cars. Many were 12 in 2019. Likewise no evening journeys.
* But the biggest gaps on GN are on the inner-suburban 717 services. These are still bloodbathed compared to 2019. Peak is 4tph with the only enhancement being a couple of extra Gordon Hill trips, whilst off-peak is a very thin 2tph. For the Hertford line especially this is way below what has existed in the past.
* The Cambridge fast services are harder to compare because 8-car working to Kings Lynn has made a few changes. But there are certainly fewer services lengthened to 12-cars inwards of Cambridge compared to 2019, although once you ignore contra-peak workings which never loaded heavily it isn’t a massive number of with-flow services which are shorter.
But the biggest gaps on GN are on the inner-suburban 717 services. These are still bloodbathed compared to 2019. Peak is 4tph with the only enhancement being a couple of extra Gordon Hill trips, whilst off-peak is a very thin 2tph. For the Hertford line especially this is way below what has existed in the past.
For only a brief, halycon period (2 years?), all part of TfL's influence (without any budget...!) when the TSGN franchise was created.
However, these routes have been at 2tph off peak more or less ever since they were electrified. Am old enough to remember the original 3tph C313 patterns when that happened, but don't think that lasted beyond the early 80s. Just really isn't the traffic to support more than this here, it seems... received wisdom that the Piccadilly line takes most of the leisure demand and, over its 90 years of existence, has viewed as 'the way to go to London' by most. Endless bouts of cancellations eg. Sundays over many decades of course haven't helped, ie. lack of staff, RDW agreements etc. etc. etc., amusing service reductions during key Euro maches last year made the point clear....
SWT seems to have up to eight fewer trains per hour out of Waterloo compared with 2019 OP:
2 ML: one less each to Portsmouth & Bouremenouth
2 Epsom - now hourly to each of Guildford & Dorking
2 Hounslow loop (run during the peak).
Also fewer trains to Reading shoulder peak
The Salisbury service has been restored to 2 tph.
It would be interesting to see if a business case could be made to restoring services - after all thats how additional services beyond those in the Passenger Service Requirement were justified by TOCs. Partly it will depend upon peak patterns as the relative cost of some additional OP services can be low. The key issue I suspect is traincrew - the situation appears to have stablised somewhat since Christmas but you would probably need more staff to reliably run the full pre-covid service. I certainly hope that you can justify it.
It will be interesting to see the overcrowding (PIXC) figures for Autumn 2025. Some TOCs, certainly SWT are down. All suburban services are 8-car except for those formed of 701 units, but the length should be restored as more of this class enter service.
You might wish to run a reduced Friday peak but that would be some stock being used eight times a week rather than ten so virtually no savings in leasing & track access costs.
Conversely many TOCs (certainly SWT) could run an enhanced Sunday service and I'm sure that the demand would be there. Problems - higher costs (But maybe even more revenue), traincrew and engineering work.
3tph off-peak on both routes since WAGN days. Around 1997 IIRC. There’s more overall capacity now as everything is 6-cars, but nonetheless a half-hourly service is rather poor. There doesn’t seem to by any sign of 4tph returning.
It is more than just the shoulder peak. In the Dec 2019 timetable, there were 4tph Waterloo - Reading 1505-2005 inclusive, plus three Waterloo - Farnham via Ascot (1654, 1754, 1854). Now it is 2tph Waterloo - Reading throughout the peak, and two Waterloo - Farnham via Ascot (1713, 1813). In Dec 2019 the vast majority of these services were 10-car 458/5, now nothing is more than 8-cars, due to the delayed 701 introduction.
I have a suspicion at least part of the reason was insufficient class 700/0s. Rainham-Luton requires a lot of units, and taking over Charing Cross-Gillingham wasn’t envisaged as part of the original proposals. Being a late change the fleet wasn’t sized accordingly. Rather conveniently this then avoided having to address issues such as stabling, or whether Cambridge-Maidstone could be made to operate reliably.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
The GN side of GTR is still thin in places.
The core GN-side TL services are at 2019 levels, and in fact never really lost these except in the very height of the early Covid days. That said, they are rather prone to crew-related cancellations, but they were in 2019 too.
It’s the non-TL services that have taken something of a hit.
* The KX to Cambridge stopping service was unscathed as a result of Covid itself, but has been cut back since, with midday, Saturday and evening services halved between Letchworth and Cambridge, and perhaps more problematic is the service out of King’s Cross in the later evening is now hourly. To be fair the Letchworth terminations aren’t really a massive problem, but the lack of evening services is.
* The peak Baldock services have only just been reintroduced, and still only half of them - and all these now run to/from Letchworth. The three evening runs from London to Baldock are also missing.
* Still some peak Peterborough extras missing, and all bar one of the ones that do run are 8 cars. Many were 12 in 2019. Likewise no evening journeys.
* But the biggest gaps on GN are on the inner-suburban 717 services. These are still bloodbathed compared to 2019. Peak is 4tph with the only enhancement being a couple of extra Gordon Hill trips, whilst off-peak is a very thin 2tph. For the Hertford line especially this is way below what has existed in the past.
* The Cambridge fast services are harder to compare because 8-car working to Kings Lynn has made a few changes. But there are certainly fewer services lengthened to 12-cars inwards of Cambridge compared to 2019, although once you ignore contra-peak workings which never loaded heavily it isn’t a massive number of with-flow services which are shorter.
GTR routes are still quite thin South of the River too.
However, is part of this due to the massive uplift in services in May 2018 when the Thameslink program was introduced which was supposed to cover passenger growth into the 2030's which seems less likely now. (I assume there was an uplift in GN services like there was South of London). Should we be comparing services and passenger numbers from 2017 rather than 2019/20.
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