Cumbrian Coast Loco Hauled Stock

[LeylandLen]

As we in meteorological autumn , I assume the 37s are better at dealing with leaf fall than any basic 158 or DMUs?

 

[IslandDweller]

Whitehaven to Sellafield.... At work start/finish times the traffic is nose to tail, first gear... It's not an easy commute by any method.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

As we in meteorological autumn , I assume the 37s are better at dealing with leaf fall than any basic 158 or DMUs?

If you base such an assumption on a loco having a higher effective adhesive weight then that would appear reasonable. However 37s are more than 50 years old and their traction control technology reflects that. In other words they are perfectly capable of spinning up their wheels under acceleration. Performance under braking should certainly be better than a DMU however.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm 5050 about the 37s being back. As an enthusiast I say great but as someone who values reliability I do wonder if the few days they have had have been long enough for Kingmoor fitters to find a big enough hammer to use on them!

 

[ScottDarg]

Some interesting points above. There is an online picture which appears to show one of the loco hauled sets entering Carlisle piloted by a Class 66.

Why is it the Workington drivers dislike the Class 37s? Could something be done to make them accept the sets?

Also I understand that the DBSOs were modified to mimic the controls of the Class 37. Presumably this puts an impediment in the way of replacing the Class 37s with something else?

When the Class 37 powered sets are working properly they do seem to be very capable of keeping to or ahead of time. They are very comfortable to sets to ride in and could be good for the route if they performed better.

2 or 3 weeks ago I saw a young woman boarding the train at Whitehaven saying "it's one of the slow ones" and expressing concern for when she would arrive. It is a pity they have such a bad reputation.

I took the pic you linked, the 66 was bringing 402 back to Kingmoor after it failed around Whitehaven, the 66 darted through two hours earlier to recover it.

401 is to the right, it was to cover the 17:37 Carlisle - Barrow but was sent back to the sidings shortly after it pulled in to platform 1, with the 17:37 subsequently cancelled.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Whitehaven to Sellafield.... At work start/finish times the traffic is nose to tail, first gear... It's not an easy commute by any method.

Our son spent a year in Sellafield as part of his degree course so is very much aware of this but standing on a cold platform waiting for a train that has been cancelled is not fun. The alternative is being sat in a nice warm car with no one complaining about the stereo.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Our son spent a year in Sellafield as part of his degree course so is very much aware of this but standing on a cold platform waiting for a train that has been cancelled is not fun. The alternative is being sat in a nice warm car with no one complaining about the stereo.

Given that Sellafield and DRS are essentially under the same ownership (indirectly you as taxpayer), you would think they would provide a reliable service to showcase their rail expertise and keep their staff happy. Perhaps its time for the train to be hauled by the internal shunters from Sellafield - now that will get the gricers out.

 

[47802]

Well you try it on the basis that if it runs OK Monday and Tuesday give it a miss Wednesday as it will probably break down by then

 

[hassaanhc]

DBSO 9705 was in the Greater Anglia set yesterday, although there was still a loco at each end and therefore the DBSO cab was not in use. https://flic.kr/p/YhBQ9c
(Photo of 9705 coupled to 37716. For completeness, 37405 was the loco at the other end)

 

[CosherB]

DBSO 9705 was in the Greater Anglia set yesterday, although there was still a loco at each end and therefore the DBSO cab was not in use. https://flic.kr/p/YhBQ9c
(Photo of 9705 coupled to 37716. For completeness, 37405 was the loco at the other end)

This is what should be happening in Cumbria!

 

[HLE]

The link at Norwich that sign the 37's don't sign DBSO's, therefore 2 locos are needed

 

[AY1975]

Does anyone know whether all the DRS coaches in use on the Cumbrian Coast loco-hauleds now have retention tank toilets?

Also, do you know whether the second toilet in each coach has actually physically been removed (and if so, has anything else been put in its place?), or is it still in situ but permanently or semi-permanently locked out of use?

 

[70014IronDuke]

I'm 5050 about the 37s being back. As an enthusiast I say great but as someone who values reliability I do wonder if the few days they have had have been long enough for Kingmoor fitters to find a big enough hammer to use on them!

Intriguingly, after the awful period towards the end of August, the 37s appear to have been fairly well behaved for the past few weeks - at least from my non-rigorous scans of RTT records.

It raises a suspicion in my mind that perhaps one or two key maintenance men were off on holidays, and those left behind were unable to cope with or nail some of the more difficult the locomotive faults.

 

[Tringonometry]

Speaking to a dispatcher at Lancaster the other day, he said the Workington drivers hate them and will try to fail them over the smallest of things ...

I'd advise said dispatcher to pull his neck in. We don't even work them past BIF for a kickoff, so I doubt he's seen more than a couple of us to gauge our attitude and competence.

In other news: how does failing a train benefit the driver? It's just a ballache.

 

[yorksrob]

Does anyone know whether all the DRS coaches in use on the Cumbrian Coast loco-hauleds now have retention tank toilets?

Also, do you know whether the second toilet in each coach has actually physically been removed (and if so, has anything else been put in its place?), or is it still in situ but permanently or semi-permanently locked out of use?

Yes, to part one, and don't know to part two.

 

[bb21]

I'd advise said dispatcher to pull his neck in. We don't even work them past BIF for a kickoff, so I doubt he's seen more than a couple of us to gauge our attitude and competence.

In other news: how does failing a train benefit the driver? It's just a ballache.

You know how messroom gossip spreads, don't you?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Does anyone know whether all the DRS coaches in use on the Cumbrian Coast loco-hauleds now have retention tank toilets?

Retention tanks can't be cheap, why would DRS (or Northern) invest in installing them for mrk2s given they don't have power doors and hence are going in 2020? Retention tanks make sense if they're going to be running for a long time, but they're not, are they?

 

[Mordac]

Retention tanks can't be cheap, why would DRS (or Northern) invest in installing them for mrk2s given they don't have power doors and hence are going in 2020? Retention tanks make sense if they're going to be running for a long time, but they're not, are they?

I think (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) that charter services, because they're not public timetabled services, are exempt from PRM-TSI.

 

[DarloRich]

Retention tanks can't be cheap, why would DRS (or Northern) invest in installing them for mrk2s given they don't have power doors and hence are going in 2020? Retention tanks make sense if they're going to be running for a long time, but they're not, are they?

are we sure these DRS/Northern MKii have retention tanks fitted?

 

[Tringonometry]

You know how messroom gossip spreads, don't you?

The key is not to be called Ian. The two Ians at WKG have about 15 or 20 failures between them.

My own worst traction-caused delay on 37 + stock has been 10 minutes.

Not surprisingly, the drivers who like them most are mostly those who've suffered fewest failures. No one goes to work wanting the grief of a failure.

 

[Emblematic]

I think (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) that charter services, because they're not public timetabled services, are exempt from PRM-TSI.

They are not exempt. Operations which are separate from the public networks (e.g. museums and heritage lines) are exempt, and there is an exemption allowing heritage vehicles to be run on public lines for up to 20 days a year, covering things like blackpool heritage trams and steam on the Met events. Everything else is assessed, case by case and vehicle by vehicle.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I can confirm that certainly some of the DRS cumbrian fleat have new retention loos but have not been 2020'ised and unsure if entire fleat are done.

 

[Emblematic]

I can confirm that certainly some of the DRS cumbrian fleat have new retention loos but have not been 2020'ised and unsure if entire fleat are done.

The retention toilets aren't covered by the accessibility legislation, but rather by requirements set by DfT and NR. For franchised operators, the requirement and compliance dates are set out in the franchise agreements. For open access and charter operators, NR has stated that licences to operate from 2017 onwards will include cut-off dates for track discharge, although the details of these are not public.
It's likely that the charter operators will be allowed exemptions from some disability requirements, provided their operation makes suitable adjustments (such as providing sufficient stewards etc.) in much the same way they presently operate slam-door stock. Their licences would still require them to fit retention tanks.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Im aware of this, I was mearly trying to answer 2 queries for the price of 1

 

[Blindtraveler]

I have asked over on the Tops thread also but anyone any idea which 37 will work the 11:56 Carlisle Lancaster tomorrow?

 

[PHILIPE]

37422 failed just outside Workington this afternoon on 2C34 which conveys the Sellafield workers and caused disruption to services..

 

[Mag_seven]

37422 failed just outside Workington this afternoon on 2C34 which conveys the Sellafield workers and caused disruption to services..

While we all love "real" loco hauled services I think its about time we called time on the 37's on this route and replace them with either units or 68's.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

While we all love "real" loco hauled services I think its about time we called time on the 37's on this route and replace them with either units or 68's.

Perhaps they should hire the Hastings Diesel unit?? (Or the Chiltern Bubble Cars.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Yes, these trains are not reliable enough, they need to go. Are they cheap to run? I've always assumed not.

 

[sprinterguy]

While we all love "real" loco hauled services I think its about time we called time on the 37's on this route and replace them with either units or 68's.

How many failures have there been in recent weeks? While one failure is really one too many on a line with as sparse a service as the Cumbrian Coast, unless a number have passed "under the radar" then this seems like the first time in a while that the issue has been raised on this forum.