Cumbrian Coast Loco Hauled Stock

[43096]

Regarding the loco hauled diagrams, has anybody ever investigated the possibility of using the Class 60 locos?

Obviously, it would be unlikely that they would run between Preston and Lancaster on those diagrams, due to the 60mph limit.

What on earth are you on about?

That is quite one of the most bizarre ideas I have ever, ever come across.

 

[themiller]

Now, if someone could fit a diesel alternator into a 442.........

 

[randyrippley]

Regarding the loco hauled diagrams, has anybody ever investigated the possibility of using the Class 60 locos?

Obviously, it would be unlikely that they would run between Preston and Lancaster on those diagrams, due to the 60mph limit.

As they don't have any way of heating the carriages, probably not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Genny in the guards van?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[CosherB]

Double headed 60s for superior acceleration ......

http://www.hondawanderer.com/60010_60041_Atherstone_1991.htm

 

[QueensCurve]

Double headed 60s for superior acceleration ......

http://www.hondawanderer.com/60010_60041_Atherstone_1991.htm

I saw someone's tweet that DRS are to dispose of the Clas 37s. Is this true, and, if so, what will happen to the Cumbrian locomotive hauled sets?

 

[Mordac]

I saw someone's tweet that DRS are to dispose of the Clas 37s. Is this true, and, if so, what will happen to the Cumbrian locomotive hauled sets?

Only a few of the 37/6s

 

[59CosG95]

Only a few of the 37/6s

And the rest of their /5s along with 47813, but that's beside the point. DRS can then concentrate on their /7, the /0s and the /4s.

 

[fowler9]

Double headed 50's pulling a pair of Pacers! Is it possible? Or triple headed with a 442? There must be enough preserved 50's to make this possible!

 

[adrock1976]

I've only just seen the responses below today since I last posted.

What on earth are you on about?

That is quite one of the most bizarre ideas I have ever, ever come across.

I believe this was a very simple and straightforward question, bearing in mind that most of this thread's discussion seems to be based around the unpredictability of the Class 37s that were built between 1960 and 1965.

The reason I suggested Class 60 is that they were built between 1989 and 1993/4, and there are several of them that are unused, mostly attributed to their 60mph speed limit.

As they don't have any way of heating the carriages, probably not.

Thanks very much for clarifying.

Double headed 60s for superior acceleration ......

http://www.hondawanderer.com/60010_60041_Atherstone_1991.htm

On their own, did the Class 60s have a fair amount of grunt from a standing start? If so, I would imagine a pair would have launched into a sprint soon afterwards.

Furthermore, I would imagine if Class 60s were to venture onto an Intercity mainline these days on any type of train, it would most likely have to be overnight or at a time when there is light traffic.

 

[CosherB]

I've only just seen the responses below today since I last posted.

I believe this was a very simple and straightforward question, bearing in mind that most of this thread's discussion seems to be based around the unpredictability of the Class 37s that were built between 1960 and 1965.

The reason I suggested Class 60 is that they were built between 1989 and 1993/4, and there are several of them that are unused, mostly attributed to their 60mph speed limit.

Thanks very much for clarifying.

On their own, did the Class 60s have a fair amount of grunt from a standing start? If so, I would imagine a pair would have launched into a sprint soon afterwards.

Furthermore, I would imagine if Class 60s were to venture onto an Intercity mainline these days on any type of train, it would most likely have to be overnight or at a time when there is light traffic.

I'm not sure that you have a grasp on why a multitude of Class 60s are parked up, and why that's not an excuse to shove them into hauling passenger trains. hock:

 

[sprinterguy]

Furthermore, I would imagine if Class 60s were to venture onto an Intercity mainline these days on any type of train, it would most likely have to be overnight or at a time when there is light traffic.

Not really, class 60s can be found on both the ECML North of York and the Derby - Birmingham main line during the day (there may be other examples, but those are the two that I am familiar with).

 

[shredder1]

Are the 37`s still operating, I was going to have a look at them this saturday?

 

[PHILIPE]

Are the 37`s still operating, I was going to have a look at them this saturday?

Yes, still operating. Diagrams here:-

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1478563

 

[shredder1]

Yes, still operating. Diagrams here:-

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1478563

Thank you very much Philipe, much apprecated

 

[Iskra]

Not really, class 60s can be found on both the ECML North of York and the Derby - Birmingham main line during the day (there may be other examples, but those are the two that I am familiar with).

And South Wales on a daily basis.

 

[70014IronDuke]

The loco-hauled trains have attracted a few hundred, or even a few thousand 'bashers' - but they don't appear to show up in the station-usage figures for 2015-16, almost all of which are down between 5-10% or more (there are odd exceptions, such as Corckickle and Drigg, but these are limited to the small stations).

Whitehaven, for example, 271,000 to 257,000.
Sellafield is down from 243,000 to 204,000.
Millom is down from 213,000 to 194,000.
(thanks to whoever updated the Wikipedia pages, and made this comparison easy.)

Quite a serious erosion of figures, I fear. And this after the Sunday service to Whitehaven was increased from 3 to 4 trains. (OK, not huge, but an improvement that should have helped lead to marginally better figures.)
Does anyone know of any explanation?

(I suppose the majority of bashers will have bought day ranger tickets, or whatever they are called, so don't really show up on the intermediate stations.)

 

[43096]

Does anyone know of any explanation?

The chronic unreliability of the LHCS putting off passengers, perhaps?

 

[thealexweb]

It is getting harder and harder to get to the Barrow Coast from the Manchester stations. For most of the day it is two changes (Manchester to Lancaster, Lancaster to Barrow, Barrow onwards) to access many of the smaller stations. I imagine that's a contributing factor. Hopefully the return of the hourly Cumbria service next December will reverse this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is getting harder and harder to get to the Barrow Coast from the Manchester stations. For most of the day it is three changes (Manchester to Lancaster, Lancaster to Barrow, Barrow onwards) to access many of the smaller stations. I imagine that's a contributing factor.

From the Coast stations Manchester is probably a red herring - a through service to Lancaster is probably more use.

I would like to see a proper recast of those service groups, personally.

I would obtain new bi-modes (or bi-mode 319s with the Renatus interior mods and high quality InterCity style seating) and operate two-hourly Manchester Airport to Lancaster, splitting a unit off for Windermere, which would then go up there, do a shuttle and go back.

The Barrow line units would go off to Barrow then come back and do an intermediate shuttle in the other hour.

For the Coast, a train roughly every two hours would operate through to Carlisle.

All would be branded something like "Lakes and Furness" with modern, photo-style branding and named units.

I genuinely think if there was that kind of quality boost, timetable consistency etc passenger numbers would increase. It's proven itself sufficiently on German tendered regional services that it almost seems to have become the default to take this approach - new DMUs or EMUs, Taktfahrplan and local branding. It's light-years better than a D-lok and a couple of rotting Silberlinge about every two hours. And it needn't be *that* expensive - it's just about consistency, quality, branding and getting the "look" right - and *keeping* it right.

 

[philthetube]

The loco-hauled trains have attracted a few hundred, or even a few thousand 'bashers' - but they don't appear to show up in the station-usage figures for 2015-16, almost all of which are down between 5-10% or more (there are odd exceptions, such as Corckickle and Drigg, but these are limited to the small stations).

Whitehaven, for example, 271,000 to 257,000.
Sellafield is down from 243,000 to 204,000.
Millom is down from 213,000 to 194,000.
(thanks to whoever updated the Wikipedia pages, and made this comparison easy.)

Quite a serious erosion of figures, I fear. And this after the Sunday service to Whitehaven was increased from 3 to 4 trains. (OK, not huge, but an improvement that should have helped lead to marginally better figures.)
Does anyone know of any explanation?

(I suppose the majority of bashers will have bought day ranger tickets, or whatever they are called, so don't really show up on the intermediate stations.)

These figures may not have benefited from "bashers" because they do not alight at these stations.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The key bashers stations will I think be Carlisle, Barrow, Lancaster and Preston and perhaps Ravenglass for those wanting the R and ER

Tickets like the Cumbria Day Ranger, Northwest Rover and the Dumbria round robbin woant be aiding the figures iether

 

[70014IronDuke]

The chronic unreliability of the LHCS putting off passengers, perhaps?

Interestingly, this seems to have improved of late. At least for the first three Cl 37 daily workings, there has been no significant delays for at least the last two weeks (I have been checking).

You may be correct, of course, over time. I mean, after getting up at some 'orrible early hour, if one of the very first early morning trains fails to get you to Sellafield within 10 minutes of on time on average once every 2 weeks (my guess as to the record, roughly speaking), it ain't very good, is it?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is getting harder and harder to get to the Barrow Coast from the Manchester stations. For most of the day it is two changes (Manchester to Lancaster, Lancaster to Barrow, Barrow onwards) to access many of the smaller stations. I imagine that's a contributing factor. Hopefully the return of the hourly Cumbria service next December will reverse this.

I agree. One change is enough to put many people off - I think two will deter all but the 'rail confident' passenger in many cases. A few more Manchester - Barrow direct services could work wonders.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

....... ...

All would be branded something like "Lakes and Furness" with modern, photo-style branding and named units.

I genuinely think if there was that kind of quality boost, timetable consistency etc passenger numbers would increase. It's proven itself sufficiently on German tendered regional services that it almost seems to have become the default to take this approach - new DMUs or EMUs, Taktfahrplan and local branding. It's light-years better than a D-lok and a couple of rotting Silberlinge about every two hours. And it needn't be *that* expensive - it's just about consistency, quality, branding and getting the "look" right - and *keeping* it right.

I'm sure such a concerted programme would indeed reap benefits. Whether such will happen ....... ? :roll:

 

[D6975]

The key bashers stations will I think be Carlisle, Barrow, Lancaster and Preston and perhaps Ravenglass for those wanting the R and ER

Tickets like the Cumbria Day Ranger, Northwest Rover and the Dumbria round robbin woant be aiding the figures iether

St Bees is another one, the last 37 hauled services of a weekday cross there and the leap always makes.

 

[yorksrob]

On the subject of station figures, I only ever use rovers (usually delay repay of Northern Rail £10 offers) simply because it is so expensive to get over that way from Leeds. Over £40 odd quid generally to get to Whitehaven. If there was a reasonably priced day return, I would probably buy that.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Interestingly, the Furness intermediate stations have probably shown passenger growth overall in 2015-16 - though it's not totally clear - most have shown growth but Silverdale (down 4,500, about 8%), Arnside (minus 4,000) and Grange-over-Sands (3,000down) were all down. But certainly look to have done better than the Cumbrian Coast stations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interestingly, the Furness intermediate stations have probably shown passenger growth overall in 2015-16 - though it's not totally clear - most have shown growth but Silverdale (down 4,500, about 8%), Arnside (minus 4,000) and Grange-over-Sands (3,000down) were all down. But certainly look to have done better than the Cumbrian Coast stations.

As Silverdale and Arnside have no ticketing facilities that could be as simple as a reduction in guards selling tickets, of course.

 

[philthetube]

Arnside numbers are likely to be short as the guard often doesn't not have time to get round the train before Barrow and many people make that short journey, (which is only a short journey by rail).

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

It is getting harder and harder to get to the Barrow Coast from the Manchester stations. For most of the day it is two changes (Manchester to Lancaster, Lancaster to Barrow, Barrow onwards) to access many of the smaller stations. I imagine that's a contributing factor. Hopefully the return of the hourly Cumbria service next December will reverse this.

It's a shame that we have to wait until next December for these new timetables.

 

[yorksrob]

Not to mention the fact that the train I often try to get which has been cancelled on half of the occasions I've tried to use it (gets into Carnforth around 18:40 on an evening) is one of the few through services from the coast to the WCML.

Just to reiterate, this is not diagrammed to be loco hauled (for 43096's benefit).