CTR1 / CTR2 (Eurostar)

[lparris]

In the old days of Eurostar before HS1, where did trains join the domestic route to London? (CTR1 via Tonbridge and CTR2 via Maidstone)

I know in the later days once CTRL1 was contructed they joined the domestic network at Farningham Road.

Thanks!

 

[popeter45]

before HS1 they joined at ashford international as thats where the OHLE to Third rail change was then went via toonbridge
once HS1 phase 1 was done a spure off just before Ebbsfield was made to connect to the domestic network and went via swanley

 

[lparris]

before HS1 they joined at ashford international as thats where the OHLE to Third rail change was then went via toonbridge
once HS1 phase 1 was done a spure off just before Ebbsfield was made to connect to the domestic network and went via swanley

Thanks for that! That was my best guess but wasn't sure!

 

[StephenHunter]

What route did they take on the third rail network?

 

[Gloster]

By memory, usually Waterloo-Brixton, then either via Herne Hill and Penge East or Nunhead and Catford to Shortlands (usually the former). Then Bromley South and Orpington to Tonbridge and Ashford. When the Fawkham Junction-Southfleet Junction connection to HS1 was open it was reached via Swanley.

 

[DanNCL]

Before High Speed 1 was built the route to the Channel Tunnel from Waterloo was entirely on the third rail network. A few different routes were used to reach Ashford from Waterloo - in South London some trains went via Denmark Hill to reach Bromley South, others via Herne Hill, and in Kent some went via Tonbridge, others via Maidstone East. From Ashford the domestic line to Folkestone was used as far as Dollands Moor, where trains switched to overhead power and joined Eurotunnel infrastructure.

 

[mister-sparky]

Sometimes they went via bat & ball too

 

[Taunton]

The initial joining point was right at the Channel Tunnel terminal, alongside the Folkestone line, where there was a double junction. Traction changeover, done at speed, had to be done pretty quickly - there was Saltwood Tunnel, 3rd rail only, only about a mile west of the terminal.

 

[jopsuk]

am I right in thinking that whilst obviously the connections at Ashford (through the station!) and the tunnel (Dollands Moor, well used by freight) are still active, the Southfleet one whilst extant is locked/blocked out of use? The E320s after all are out of gauge for the national network, whilst I believe the E300s had their 3rd rail shoes removed.

 

[paul1609]

Yes you're right. E320s also dont have the British AWS and TPWS signalling systems and they have been taken out of use on the E300s.
St Pancras (HS1/ Eurostar) Platforms have the french system KVB, Ashford International platforms 3/4 and the approaches from HS1 are dual signalled (AWS and KVB).
Other connections between HS1 and the national network are not available to passenger trains and are either clamped out of use or only used by freight companies under special exemptions.

 

[Ianno87]

before HS1 they joined at ashford international as thats where the OHLE to Third rail change was then went via toonbridge
once HS1 phase 1 was done a spure off just before Ebbsfield was made to connect to the domestic network and went via swanley

No - the tunnel wires ended at (then) Continental Junction (Dollands Moor) and third rail from there.

Ashford was only wired when HS1 was built - before HS1 Eurostars ran on the existing route through Westenhanger.

am I right in thinking that whilst obviously the connections at Ashford (through the station!) and the tunnel (Dollands Moor, well used by freight) are still active, the Southfleet one whilst extant is locked/blocked out of use? The E320s after all are out of gauge for the national network, whilst I believe the E300s had their 3rd rail shoes removed.

Yes, out of use. Latterly used to park some withdrawn e300s awaiting scrapping.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Dec 2020 ==

The initial joining point was right at the Channel Tunnel terminal, alongside the Folkestone line, where there was a double junction. Traction changeover, done at speed, had to be done pretty quickly - there was Saltwood Tunnel, 3rd rail only, only about a mile west of the terminal.

Apparently, a small collection of Pantographs by the tunnel entrance from the drivers that forgot to lower them...

 

[lparris]

The initial joining point was right at the Channel Tunnel terminal, alongside the Folkestone line, where there was a double junction. Traction changeover, done at speed, had to be done pretty quickly - there was Saltwood Tunnel, 3rd rail only, only about a mile west of the terminal.

Do you know when this was in use to? I assume it became disused when Southfleet Jn opened and they went via Farningham Road.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Dec 2020 ==

Just to get my head around it. The joining points were Continental Jn on to the Folkstone line and then Southfleet Jn. After this HS1 to St Pancras opened. Am I missing any?

 

[Bald Rick]

before HS1 they joined at ashford international as thats where the OHLE to Third rail change was then went via toonbridge
once HS1 phase 1 was done a spure off just before Ebbsfield was made to connect to the domestic network and went via swanley

As others have said, not correct. And there’s no such place as Ebbsfield!

Just to get my head around it. The joining points were Continental Jn on to the Folkstone line and then Southfleet Jn. After this HS1 to St Pancras opened. Am I missing any?

Correct.

Continental Jn was (and still is) the Junction between the Eurotunnel system and the ‘classic’ network, it was used by Eurostars until 28/9/03. From this point they used HS1 to Fawkham Jn. Until 14/11/07, when section two opened to St Pancras, and all Eurostar services swapped to that.

Eurostar have not used any other routes on/off HS1 in normal passenger service.

 

[popeter45]

As others have said, not correct. And there’s no such place as Ebbsfield!

yea i fully stand corrected
dunno why autocorrect magicted Ebbsfield into exsitance in Ebbsfleets place

 

[Ianno87]

As others have said, not correct. And there’s no such place as Ebbsfield!



Correct.

Continental Jn was (and still is) the Junction between the Eurotunnel system and the ‘classic’ network, it was used by Eurostars until 28/9/03. From this point they used HS1 to Fawkham Jn. Until 14/11/07, when section two opened to St Pancras, and all Eurostar services swapped to that.

Eurostar have not used any other routes on/off HS1 in normal passenger service.

I *thought* Continental Junction had to be moved as part of HS1 works, to the present location of Saltwood Jn - the Up CTRL line leaving Eurotunnel infrastructure basically running through the former junction location?

 

[Bald Rick]

I *thought* Continental Junction had to be moved as part of HS1 works, to the present location of Saltwood Jn - the Up CTRL line leaving Eurotunnel infrastructure basically running through the former junction location?

I don’t think it did, but happy to be corrected.

 

[paul1609]

I don’t think it did, but happy to be corrected.

Ianno is right, Continental Junction was moved about 3/4s of the length of Dollands Moor Yard towards London.

 

[Bald Rick]

Ianno is right, Continental Junction was moved about 3/4s of the length of Dollands Moor Yard towards London.

I stand corrected! He does owe me a correction. Unusual to see a newly designed switch diamond installed so recently.

 

[Ianno87]

Ianno is right, Continental Junction was moved about 3/4s of the length of Dollands Moor Yard towards London.

I stand corrected! He does owe me a correction. Unusual to see a newly designed switch diamond installed so recently.

OK, I make score so far as:

Bald Rick 784 - Ianno87 3

 

[Bald Rick]

OK, I make score so far as:

Bald Rick 784 - Ianno87 3

A highly dubious scoresheet. I’m sending up to the third umpire!