Crystal Palace platform 6

[JB1601]

This has been bugging me for a while, now, wonder if anyone has the answer.

When short 4/6 car trains stop on Platform 6 at Crystal Palace (so trains from Victoria heading to London Bridge via Forest Hill), for some time now they've been stopping at the far end of the platform - i.e. some considerable distance from the stairs and lift in the station building. If you're not standing in the right place, or are coming down the stairs as the train arrives, you can easily miss the train, and I've seen people do that.

Does anyone know why the "4 car stop" appears to be set at the far end of the platform rather than so as to align the back end of the train with the bit of the platform nearest the stairs? The only thing I can think of is that it was changed when they were constructing the new roof (as was also done with London Overground on platform 5) and they've never changed it back. I've seen elderly and less agile passengers really struggling to get to the end of platform 6 when the train stops as there's no obvious indication it's going to be so far away.

On the face of it fairly minor but having written it down it does seem daft - anyone got any ideas? Am I missing something really obvious?

 

[iphone76]

I haven't been to Crystal Palace for years, but it could be they moved the DOO monitors (if they are used there) to the end of the platform to create a standard stopping point. The did that recently at a few c2c platforms. This is pure speculation though.

 

[D6975]

A similar thing happens at Finsbury Park. Northbound 313s all stop at the same point, whether 3 or 6 car. This means a 3 car stops well past the main steps/platform entry.

 

[LLivery]

I hadn't noticed as I've always had a 8 or 10 car from there but the same thing happens at Anerley (plat 1). At Sydenham (plat 2) all Southern trains whether 377 or 455, all lengths (3-10 car), stop at "S" marker the end of the platform wheres LO stop at the "Class 378 5 car" marker about 1 car and a half short of the end, however on platform 1 theres no difference for class of unit. It does seem odd.

 

[phantomphish]

Hi,

Nice to see Crystal Palace getting a mention here, in my opinion the most elegant station in South London!

This is not my specific area of experience, but through my career I have learned that there are several factors which come into play when choosing the location of station stopping points.

In an ideal world, each platform would have one 'S' board for any formation of stock, in order to minimise the risk of a stop-short (and possible door release) incident. However, in most locations this is possible but not practical as the train would be a long way from the areas in which passengers naturally congregate to wait, usually near to the platform entrances and under canopies. Crystal Palace platform 6 is a good example and there are many others nearby including Crystal Palace platform 2, Gipsy Hill platform 1, Streatham Hill platforms 1 and 2, Balham platforms 1 and 2, Clapham Junction platforms 13 and 14 and so on.

To reduce additional dwell times whilst passengers move along to board the train (and the probable stream of complaints from those passengers!), different formations need to have different stopping points. As mentioned in an earlier post, some of these will need to be defined by the location of the platform mounted dispatch monitors. I don't know if these were moved at Crystal Palace during the platform extensions for 10-car working about 5 years ago, but it would seem likely that they were at least initially positioned so that drivers of 4 car or 6 car formation trains with 455 / 455+456 / 456+456+456 stock would all have one stopping point from which they could see the monitors. Nowadays there are very few 6 car sets (since the departure of the 456 class to South West Trains), so this would explain why the back of the train is such a way from the stairs when formed of a 4 car set - and even the 377 stock will stop at the same place for reasons of consistency.

A similar quirk happens at nearby Gipsy Hill platform 1, whereby a 4 car set stops by the monitors and thereby nicely under the canopy for waiting passengers. A 5 car set however will not fit, so the stopping point for those is up by the next set of monitors, at the 5-8 car board, causing passengers a rapid trot along the platform to get on. It would be possible to put in a 5 car board between the two, but as mentioned above would increase the risk of a stop-short - the less complicated the stopping points the better to reduce risk.

There are also possible issues to do with the beacons which use GPS to ensure that the on-board computer only allows the doors to release on the correct side and on coaches which are within the platform limits - this area is relatively unknown to me, but with newer stock there is a lot of computerised stuff which goes on to prevent doors opening directly onto the track, and this is all tied into the stopping points for the different lengths of train.

At some locations stop markers are positioned to allow for another unit to be accommodated into the same platform just in case it should be required in the event of disrupted working. I seem to remember that the 4 car mark at Romford platform 4 was a long way towards the London end of the platform for this reason - causing people who had used the country end staircase to quickly relocate when their train arrived...

As a final thought, the platform canopy at Crystal Palace is probably a red herring as the platforms and dispatch equipment were all in place before it was added. If anything, it has encouraged passenger dispersal ever-so-slightly further away from the stairways and thus closer to the trains on platforms 3 / 4/ 5 / 6.

I hope these thoughts help explain things a bit, and I am happy to be corrected if anyone has more accurate information and knowledge about this!

Cheers,


ThePhantomPhish

 

[JB1601]

Thanks for the replies, the DOO monitors sounds plausible (although they manage to always stop near the stairs on platform 2). With regards to the canopy, it may all have been changed at the same time. There was a period where the LO trains on plat 5 sat much further down to be out of the way of the building works, and have since returned, but it may be a coincidence of timing.

Still seems pretty poor this happens at (it seems) quite a few stations, with no announcements telling you where to stand.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks for the replies, the DOO monitors sounds plausible (although they manage to always stop near the stairs on platform 2). With regards to the canopy, it may all have been changed at the same time. There was a period where the LO trains on plat 5 sat much further down to be out of the way of the building works, and have since returned, but it may be a coincidence of timing.

Still seems pretty poor this happens at (it seems) quite a few stations, with no announcements telling you where to stand.

I suggest what happens on P2 wouldn't necessarily create a precedent for P6. Before the LO alterations, doors opened on the other side of that track. It's possible that a decision was made to only use the existing monitors that were already available, but spread them out differently as part of changing from a 2 platform to a 4 platform set up on what is the main side of the station.