Crossrail Train bid delyaed

[Morgsie]

Competition to supply trains for Crossrail delayed to come under new guidelines to ensure UK firms do not miss out to European rivals. BBC News

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes because delaying the order being tendered from 2013 to 2014 is going to do Bombardier so much good.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/29/crossrail-train-manufacturing-contract

 

[SS4]

This is solely to make the government some good PR. Mark my words, when the media spotlight has moved on the contract will leave these shores.

 

[Morgsie]

BBC Article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14712211

 

[anthony263]

Bombardier seem pleased

 

[WatcherZero]

Its amazing how good the Bombardier PR machines has been, convincing people all the job losses are because of the Thameslink contract and hadnt already been planned (they had written to government to warn them of the layoffs months earlier).

 

[Mintona]

Really the Crossrail trains should be provided by the same company as Thameslink, so that in 20 years time when the Government has a stock reshuffle the trains are compatible with each other, to work in multiple.

However, this probably won't happen

 

[eastdyke]

So we delay the investment ....

That is not good for 'the recovery' is it?

 

[tbtc]

Pathetic political posturing.

This means Crossrail gets delayed which potentially means the cascade of other stock will be delayed...

We've waited long enough to get Crossrail built, lets just get on with it and tender for the best trains (whether they are produced by a Canadian company or a German one, it makes no difference to me)

Surely it'd be better for Bombardier if the bid were announced sooner so that they could employ people sooner?

This is the kind of posturing that Tony Blair used to do (meaningless, but makes for a good headline) - I'd hoped the coalition were more mature than that

 

[Schnellzug]

new rules? protectionism, surely they mean.
I presume that Siemens offered a better deal and could promise delivery on time.
I think Bombardier seem to see themselves as like British Leyland in the 1970s; people should buy from them out of sheer patriotism. (Bombardier being, of course, an ancient British company going back hundreds of years :roll

 

[mallard]

Of course Bombardier will get the Crossrail contract. Siemens won't have the capacity to deliver both fleets on time and Alstrom have still yet to build a train for the UK that's not rubbish. Of course, whether Bombardier built them in the UK or elsewhere is the real question.

This is just a political PR move inspired by the likes of Bob Crow and his odd idea that 200 redundancies due to the loss of the contract somehow puts 10,000 people out of work...

 

[Schnellzug]

Of course Bombardier will get the Crossrail contract. Siemens won't have the capacity to deliver both fleets on time and Alstrom have still yet to build a train for the UK that's not rubbish. Of course, whether Bombardier built them in the UK or elsewhere is the real question.

This is just a political PR move inspired by the likes of Bob Crow and his odd idea that 200 redundancies due to the loss of the contract somehow puts 10,000 people out of work...

Reminds me a bit of the arguments that HS2 will create 14 million jobs!!!! or however much people claim. :-/

 

[Chris125]

Siemens should have no issue delivering both orders, and with the unique and difficult spec of both orders combining tube dwell times with lineside/ERTMS/ATO signalling one common design should deliver major savings and far less risk.

Chris

 

[mallard]

Siemens should have no issue delivering both orders, and with the unique and difficult spec of both orders combining tube dwell times with lineside/ERTMS/ATO signalling one common design should deliver major savings and far less risk.

Chris

There's nothing hugely difficult about that spec. "Tube" dwell times have been done for years - by tube stock, something that Bombardier has more experience of than Siemens. The signalling/computer equipment is the possible weak point, but that's most likely dependent on third-party providers (although Siemens does do electronics) and could be shared between the providers.

Siemens would have the capacity if they did nothing but produce it, but given that they have various other orders on the go, I doubt that they'd be able to dedicate the same total manufacturing capacity that you'd get if both Siemens and Bombardier were working on orders concurrently.

Also, why does everybody assume that different manufacturer=incompatible? I think the Networker fleet proves otherwise, they even have units of different manufacture in the same class!

That's something that we should ensure for all future rolling stock orders - multiple working compatibility. We have various new DMUs that work with Sprinters (and the Sprinters themselves are compatible across manufacturers), so why not EMUs?

 

[tbtc]

Of course Bombardier will get the Crossrail contract. Siemens won't have the capacity to deliver both fleets on time

Given that Bombardier (bereft of orders, as they like to remind us) are struggling to deliver a couple of dozen two/three coach DMUs for London Midland (with all the well documented problems of the 172s...), I'm not sure that I have much faith here...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Siemens should have no issue delivering both orders

I think it'd be a good thing if these two sets of units (Crossrail and Thameslink) had as much in common as possible, and if that means giving them both to the one company then so be it.

 

[mallard]

Given that Bombardier (bereft of orders, as they like to remind us) are struggling to deliver a couple of dozen two/three coach DMUs for London Midland (with all the well documented problems of the 172s...), I'm not sure that I have much faith here...

Struggling? Some adjustments have been made to the exhaust system, but that's all I've heard "wrong" with the 172s...

Also, let's not forget the orders for London Underground (a very large EMU order) and NXEA that they're currently fulfilling without fanfare or major issue.

Odd how some people's "faith" seems to be only based on what they've heard in the press this week...

 

[swt_passenger]

Struggling? Some adjustments have been made to the exhaust system, but that's all I've heard "wrong" with the 172s...

Really? I thought it had been widely reported that there never was a physical problem, and nothing was changed. Apparently their test measurements were either taken from the wrong place, or wrongly interpreted.

 

[Schnellzug]

Talking of how what people read in the press, what I'm most impressed by is how Bombardider have managed to convince the General Public that they're a plucky little Brit company trying to compete with the big bad German multinationals. This is Bombardbider Transportation, the rail equipment division of the Canadian firm, Bombardier Inc., whose headquarters are in Berlin, Germany, with facilities in:
Belgium : Passenger vehicles[2]
Czech Republic : freight rolling stock[2]
Denmark : Continues production of IC3 "flexiliner" passenger multiple units.[2]
France : Public transport - mass transit, trolleybuses, metros[2]
Germany : Major facilities for production of mass transit, regional, and high speed passenger trains. Control systems.[2] Diesel and electric locomotive manufacture.
Italy : Production site for FS Class E464 in Vado Ligure (former Adtranz factory)
Norway : servicing of Adtranz products NSB Class 73 and GMB Class 71 built at former Adtranz factory in Strømmen[2] (see Strømmens Værksted), also manufactures NSB Class 93[2]
Poland : (Bombardier Transportation Polska), includes manufacturing site in Wroclaw (former Pafawag factory), Katowice, Lodz and Warsaw.[2][9]
Sweden : Production, engineering, development[2] Also manufactures Regina EMUs
Switzerland : Research and design - propulsion and bogies, also manufacture of high capacity (double decker) passenger vehicles.[2]
United Kingdom : Derby Carriage and Wagon Works - Manufacturing TurboStar, ElectroStar passenger multiple units and London Underground Stock. Refurbishment, maintenance and overhaul facilities.[2]
Also Hungary, Austria, Spain[2] Finland, Romania.

(thank you to our friends at WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia).

 

[Minstral25]

Really the Crossrail trains should be provided by the same company as Thameslink, so that in 20 years time when the Government has a stock reshuffle the trains are compatible with each other, to work in multiple.

However, this probably won't happen

Unlikely to ever work in multiple - These are 8 and 12 coach units (Thameslink) and 10 Coach units (Crossrail). Hence no real need to ensure they are compatible. Also they are unlikely to be reshuffled as there won't be many potential destinations with long enough platforms.

In any case this is just a process announcement as the Government have already delayed implementation of Crossrail by 2 years, hence no need to order Rolling Stock quite so early (which in turn may mean slightly more Modern technology involved)

 

[WatcherZero]

Alstom has pulled out of Crossrail competition today, says its not due to a more nationalistic approach to rolling stock procurement but because it feels it doesnt have an off the shelf carriage design suitable for the contract and designing a new model would be too expensive when competing on cost.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/aug/30/french-train-maker-drops-crossrail-bidding