Crossrail to West Ruislip?

[Sean Emmett]

Rather than Chiltern services terminating at Old Oak Common, and about half Crossrail trains turning back there, is there any prospect of some Crossrail trains running through to West Ruislip and beyond?

 

[The Planner]

Rather than Chiltern services terminating at Old Oak Common, and about half Crossrail trains turning back there, is there any prospect of some Crossrail trains running through to West Ruislip and beyond?

No. There was the old plan of running them up to Tring but that died years ago.

 

[LLivery]

Rather than Chiltern services terminating at Old Oak Common, and about half Crossrail trains turning back there, is there any prospect of some Crossrail trains running through to West Ruislip and beyond?

Terminating a couple of fast Chiltern services at OOC would probably help ease/solve some Chiltern issues (suburban frequency, Marylebone capacity), rather than adding Crossrail into the Chiltern mix. Find it strange this really isn't being pushed, although enabling work for Chiltern to OOC is mentioned in the Government's infra pipeline list (row 426 Chiltern to Old Oak Common)

Delivery of enabling works to allow construction of a new link between the revised Old Oak Common Station (from HS2) and the Chiltern line once HS2 construction is finished. This will be subject to further development work and a positive business case.

 

[SynthD]

It's some slow/inner trains intended to terminate there. If there's supposed to be space for it I can't see it. How did it get this far without anyone declaring "We/They have/have not left space for this"?

 

[hwl]

No. There was the old plan of running them up to Tring but that died years ago.

I think he is referring to the even older BR era crossrail plan 1986-94 that did involve "Chiltern", I'll try to dig out the BR map

 

[edwin_m]

I think he is referring to the even older BR era crossrail plan 1986-94 that did involve "Chiltern", I'll try to dig out the BR map

There was definitely a Chiltern branch in one of the many incarnations of Crossrail. But on a line serving a relatively lightly populated are that only justifies fairly short DMUs, long Crossrail EMUs every few minutes would be an overkill.

 

[Bald Rick]

@ChiefPlanner will be able to provide details of Crossrail to Chiltern proposals in the early 90s.

 

[hwl]

From the LT archives:

Map; Crossrail - Possible Routes And Stations,1993. | London Transport Museum

map

www.ltmuseum.co.uk

 

[mr_moo]

Interesting! Things that could have been. Thanks!

 

[adrock1976]

View attachment 103299

From the LT archives:

Map; Crossrail - Possible Routes And Stations,1993. | London Transport Museum

map

www.ltmuseum.co.uk

Was this version of Crossrail meant to complement London Underground's Metropolitan Line, or to totally take over it from north of Wembley Park?

Also, how would it have interacted with the Stanmore branch (ex Met/Bakerloo, now present day Jubilee Line), or would it have been dedicated to the outer tracks if it joined the Met route south of Wembley Park?

 

[Ianno87]

Was this version of Crossrail meant to complement London Underground's Metropolitan Line, or to totally take over it from north of Wembley Park?

Also, how would it have interacted with the Stanmore branch (ex Met/Bakerloo, now present day Jubilee Line), or would it have been dedicated to the outer tracks if it joined the Met route south of Wembley Park?

Yes, I think at the time Crossrail to Aylesbury was intended to be a complete replacement of the Metropolitan line north of Moor Park.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

From 1990 to 1996 i was the Business and Operations Manager for the NSE part of Crossrail (1) , and an enjoyable job it was. Shame the Tories canned it.

It came from the 1989 Central London Rail study but there were thin ideas before that. The surface section was planned to have - on the west - 12 tph each off the Reading and Aylesbury branches ,but later amended as work was done to a 14 / 10 mix as there was "too much service" for the Met and Chiltern corridor.

The Met would have had 4 (peak) "fast" Aylesbury , 4 semi/fast Amersham and 2 tph (all day) from Chesham. The route would have accessed Neasden South Junction via a link from Old Oak Common and a touch of the Dudden Hill line , taking over the diesel route to Harrow North Junction and then on to Moor Park etc. The "Met Main" would have ended up as an Uxbridge and Watford Met service only (there were hopes of somehow doing Watford Junction) - the Crossrail trains would have been segregated entirely from the Met residuals , - a bit of a challenge as the formation was a bit tight.

No interface at all with the Jubilee line , apart from Crossrail platforms at Wembley Park.

(The Reading line would have been 4 Reading semi/fast , 2 Maidenhead , 4 Slough and 2 Hayes and 2 West Ealing. Heathrow was sort of considered but a bit of a debate there. (as HEX was about to be burst into life)

Only when pressure on the core scheme came up , was an (unofficial) look made at the Chiltern main route towards Wycombe and a not bad idea IMHO , to connect into the WCML slow via a clever tunnel under Kensal Green cemetary to surface at the Willesden TMD to join the WCML slows for a Tring and Milton Keynes service of no more than 8 tph. We , the plotters called this "Greater Crossrail" - we had other ideas for the East involving Southend Victoria and the LT&S.

It was "broadly" feasible and would have brought in more benefits , but frankly not allowed to develop it formally , as it might have affected the core scheme. Which turned out to be doomed........

 

[EllieAquitrain]

From 1990 to 1996 i was the Business and Operations Manager for the NSE part of Crossrail (1) , and an enjoyable job it was. Shame the Tories canned it.

It came from the 1989 Central London Rail study but there were thin ideas before that. The surface section was planned to have - on the west - 12 tph each off the Reading and Aylesbury branches ,but later amended as work was done to a 14 / 10 mix as there was "too much service" for the Met and Chiltern corridor.

The Met would have had 4 (peak) "fast" Aylesbury , 4 semi/fast Amersham and 2 tph (all day) from Chesham. The route would have accessed Neasden South Junction via a link from Old Oak Common and a touch of the Dudden Hill line , taking over the diesel route to Harrow North Junction and then on to Moor Park etc. The "Met Main" would have ended up as an Uxbridge and Watford Met service only (there were hopes of somehow doing Watford Junction) - the Crossrail trains would have been segregated entirely from the Met residuals , - a bit of a challenge as the formation was a bit tight.

No interface at all with the Jubilee line , apart from Crossrail platforms at Wembley Park.

(The Reading line would have been 4 Reading semi/fast , 2 Maidenhead , 4 Slough and 2 Hayes and 2 West Ealing. Heathrow was sort of considered but a bit of a debate there. (as HEX was about to be burst into life)

Only when pressure on the core scheme came up , was an (unofficial) look made at the Chiltern main route towards Wycombe and a not bad idea IMHO , to connect into the WCML slow via a clever tunnel under Kensal Green cemetary to surface at the Willesden TMD to join the WCML slows for a Tring and Milton Keynes service of no more than 8 tph. We , the plotters called this "Greater Crossrail" - we had other ideas for the East involving Southend Victoria and the LT&S.

It was "broadly" feasible and would have brought in more benefits , but frankly not allowed to develop it formally , as it might have affected the core scheme. Which turned out to be doomed........

A tunnel between Kensal Green and Willesden TMD is indeed a very clever idea! I presume this would have included a subterranean station at Willesden Junction?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A tunnel between Kensal Green and Willesden TMD is indeed a very clever idea! I presume this would have included a subterranean station at Willesden Junction?

Afraid not - tight enough to fit in a grade seperated junction on the TMD footprint.