Crossrail ticketing

[Watershed]

I'm not sure that this information on Elizabeth line fares sent by TfL to MPs and London Assembly members is quite right (or if right, it's not as clearly expressed as it could be). It certainly does little to demystify ticketing!



Source: https://twitter.com/JuliaLopezMP/status/1588797742209458176

The first paragraph is correct, but the second isn't - for a journey from e.g. Abbey Wood to Heathrow using the EL, you could use a Zone U1234 to Heathrow Rail ticket. This is simply the result of the first paragraph!

The last paragraph represents TfL's made-up policy (which has no basis in the NRCoT) that the EL magically ceases to be a National Rail service in the core. There are quite a few tickets issued to London Terminals (or other tickets without a Maltese Cross or U Zone validity) which are valid on the EL core.

 

[miklcct]

There are quite a few tickets issued to London Terminals (or other tickets without a Maltese Cross or U Zone validity) which are valid on the EL core.

I can name some tickets without Maltese Cross or U-zone validity to be valid on the core (Paddington - Liverpool Street) using the Routeing Guide. However, none of them include London Terminals tickets.

The reason is the same as why London Terminals tickets can't be used on the Thameslink to Farringdon. There isn't a way to magically access the core without going beyond a London Terminal.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

The Twitter link shows me something about service patterns not fares. Commenting on the text James pasted though:

• They really need to make clear to non-experts what they mean by "London Underground tickets". They mean I think what are internally called SOO tickets, ie just showing the issuing station and a fare value but no named destination, or an equivalent NR-issued ticket to U-zones where crucially the zones shown cover the entire LU (or pseudo-LU Crossrail central core) part of the journey, hence Abbey Wood to Heathrow needing U1234 as noted. Some tickets issued by LU are valid on other parts of the Elizabeth line
• LU tickets are also valid between Liverpool Street and Stratford thanks to longstanding interavailability
• However inconsistent and difficult for normal people to understand is the validity described in the last paragraph, it was negotiated between TfL, RDG and the DfT though it was indeed originally proposed by TfL. I would say it is accurate if you disregard a few printed route descriptions which should have been made more specific in the run-up to the central core opening.
• The last paragraph doesn't as I read it exclude every NR-issued ticket without a Maltese* cross (*or equivalent on systems with poorly specced fonts/typefaces) or U-zone validity, but I suspect many will only appear valid because the route description hasn't been updated.
• TfL have been careful not to say that no tickets to London Terminals are valid on the Abbey Wood to Liverpool Street section, but perhaps they should at least have excluded Abbey Wood to Whitechapel and given a few more examples.
• Dare I mention that a cross-London ticket from Abbey Wood to Heathrow isn't valid to start on the Elizabeth line?

This was never going to go well as it's such a messy hybrid of ticket acceptance.

 

[miklcct]

• TfL have been careful not to say that no tickets to London Terminals are valid on the Abbey Wood to Liverpool Street section, but perhaps they should at least have excluded Abbey Wood to Whitechapel and given a few more examples.

There is a possibility that a London Terminals ticket is valid into Liverpool Street via Abbey Wood, if it is the shortest route to a London Terminal or if the Routeing Guide provides a route which involves travelling on this section.

• Dare I mention that a cross-London ticket from Abbey Wood to Heathrow isn't valid to start on the Elizabeth line?

How isn't it valid? Abbey Wood - Heathrow Rail, regardless if there is a cross or not, is no doubt valid on the line, as the line is the shortest path for the journey.

 

[MikeWh]

The reason is the same as why London Terminals tickets can't be used on the Thameslink to Farringdon. There isn't a way to magically access the core without going beyond a London Terminal.

I hope you're not saying that you can't travel beyond the first London Terminal station that you arrive at?

If you are, please explain how anyone gets to Waterloo, Waterloo East, Charing Cross, Cannon Street, City Thameslink or Moorgate. They are blocked by Vauxhall, London Bridge, London Bridge, London Bridge, Blackfriars and Old Street respectively.

 

[miklcct]

I hope you're not saying that you can't travel beyond the first London Terminal station that you arrive at?

If you are, please explain how anyone gets to Waterloo, Waterloo East, Charing Cross, Cannon Street, City Thameslink or Moorgate. They are blocked by Vauxhall, London Bridge, London Bridge, London Bridge, Blackfriars and Old Street respectively.

One can't travel beyond a London Terminal to a non-London Terminal on a London Terminals ticket.

The core stations between Paddington and Liverpool Street aren't London Terminals. Therefore one can never use a London Terminal ticket to reach these stations as there isn't a magic way to access these stations without travelling beyond a London Terminal.

 

[Watershed]

However inconsistent and difficult for normal people to understand is the validity described in the last paragraph, it was negotiated between TfL, RDG and the DfT though it was indeed originally proposed by TfL. I would say it is accurate if you disregard a few printed route descriptions which should have been made more specific in the run-up to the central core opening.

So it's accurate if you disregard the actual contractual validity! In other words, not really accurate at all!

Dare I mention that a cross-London ticket from Abbey Wood to Heathrow isn't valid to start on the Elizabeth line?

Again this is just something TfL have made up. On what basis could they try and refuse the use of such a ticket? In any event it would let you through the barriers at Abbey Wood.