Yes, all the core stations were designed to allow the trains to be extended to 11 car in the future. There are plain glass panels at one end or the other.
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Crossrail - Through Running confirmed for November
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Honestly from non-enthusiasts the communication has been pretty poor on the phased openings imo.
I have met a lot of people who have just used EL on the East or Western branches and assumed that was all it was "just a normal train" as they rebranded from TfL rail to EL without connecting them (big mistake imo - only Pad->Abbey Wood should have been rebranded). I wonder how long after November it will take people to realise the changes, especially if they only use those services very infrequently. It would be good if they put some posters up explaining that this is just the first phase - I don't think many people realise there are changes to come.
Secondly, similar story with these western pathing issues. Let's see but are they going to make it clear this is a temporary problem until May, or are loads of people going to just stick with the central line as it will feel faster and not realise?
Finally - mobile phone service news has vanished despite promises of it being imminent, and a lot of tube lines are going to start getting it from December I believe.
Pretty poor communication of pending upgrades imo given the billions spent - a few posters could have really improved this situation.
I have met a lot of people who have just used EL on the East or Western branches and assumed that was all it was "just a normal train" as they rebranded from TfL rail to EL without connecting them (big mistake imo - only Pad->Abbey Wood should have been rebranded). I wonder how long after November it will take people to realise the changes, especially if they only use those services very infrequently. It would be good if they put some posters up explaining that this is just the first phase - I don't think many people realise there are changes to come.
Secondly, similar story with these western pathing issues. Let's see but are they going to make it clear this is a temporary problem until May, or are loads of people going to just stick with the central line as it will feel faster and not realise?
Finally - mobile phone service news has vanished despite promises of it being imminent, and a lot of tube lines are going to start getting it from December I believe.
Pretty poor communication of pending upgrades imo given the billions spent - a few posters could have really improved this situation.
Agree with a lot of this. Especially on the complete silence on mobile coverage. The announcement at the time was that mobile coverage would be enabled 'shortly' after opening. It's now October so even if it went live tomorrow I wouldn't count this as 'shortly'!
There’s no platform WiFi for Three customers at EL stations. O2, VM, EE have enabled their networks as per Tube WiFi SSID standards so the whole offering is fragmented and confusing for customers who have ‘WiFi on the underground’ included in their packages until the cellular connectivity arrives. No provider designates availability separately between EL and Tube to enable customers to know what to expect.
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yea thats been a massive bug bear for me especally as three had serivce via the virgin media network when EL first opened, they have activly removed wifi on EL as a result of this and is just pushing me more to finally move away from them
I agree about the east and west lines being renamed prematurely; I've had a couple of visitors say that now it's open at Heathrow they can come straight to Canary Wharf, and having to be advised differently. It seems that four years late, there was a desperation to say it was Crossrail, even though it isn't.
I've noticed that the east and west branches are still very much Crossrail to the public, while the core has much more readily changed over to being the Elizabeth Line.
I've noticed that the east and west branches are still very much Crossrail to the public, while the core has much more readily changed over to being the Elizabeth Line.
They always said it would open in phases, having Elizabeth Line for the core and TfL Rail for East and West would have been just as confusing if not more so.
Yup, all of the newly built stations have extra bits of platform so longer trains could run in future. Although I've read this wasn't specified up front on the 345s so it'd have to be an 'after market' modification. Plus the real issue is that an 11 car trains would need serious works underground at Heathrow, which would be rather expensive. Though I suppose you might be able to run 11 cars from Shenfield to Reading and keep the 9 car service from Abbey Wood to Heathrow. But even that would still need power supply upgrades and lengthening works at surface stations on the GWML/GEML.
matt_world2004
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I don't think they could brand the east and west lines separately. They use common rolling stock
Stock that rotates around the network too. It would be a logistical nightmare and totally unnecessary to partially rebrand a service that has one set of staff, procedures & systems.
The main thrust of the OP's post related to communication - the rebranding suggestion was in brackets and caveated with an 'imo'.
The issues he highlighted included people being unaware:
That through-running is commence from 6th November,
There will initially be lengthy waits to enter Paddington from the west, and that these are scheduled to be fixed in May '23.
And yet the Circle and Hammersmith Lines operate with a single set of stock, with in-car line diagrams that show both...
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/circle-line-cld-archive.pdf
Of course. But how many people are aware of these sort of timetable changes across much of the rest of the railway network? Don’t feel this is much different.
It’s been well advertised across parts of London - pretty sure it made regional news when first announced. No doubt it will be a drip feed of comms. About 4 weeks (i.e next week) things will start and then gradually build as often happens with a big change.
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And the branding is all London Underground / TfL. It's different lines of the same system. Elizabeth Line & TfL Rail sound like different entities.
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321over360
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GEML would struggle for 11 car operation as its pushing it past a 12 car 315 format where alot of stations already can't take the full 9 cars and only 7 are available to alight/board from due to the fact platform extensions can't be done, I'm sure even the busier stations like Ilford would struggle to have platforms extended to accommodate 11 cars due to the fact the infrastructure there won't allow for any further platform extensions due to a road bridge one end and the rails rising at the other to cross the fast lines
306024
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GEML side would also struggle for stabling capacity. Currently Gidea Park for example can stable 9 x 9 car 345s. That would reduce to 4 x 11 car 345s.
The core may be designed for 11 car working, but the bits either side would need significant further work.
The core may be designed for 11 car working, but the bits either side would need significant further work.
matt_world2004
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Hanwell would be the biggest casualty of 11 car working with a platform length of only 6 cars it would mean someone in the back carriage would have to walk 5 carriage lengths
Hence TfL's initial preference to increase capacity by moving to upto 30tph @ 9car rather than 11 car as there is less infrastructure spend for roughly the same capacity increase.
Power supplies will be fine in the near future for higher tph or longer or both.
24tph+ becomes much easier when OOC relief line platforms open.
The majority of the platforms are extendable to full length and DOO (with individually addressable doors) solves the potential challenges (with the exception of passengers who don't pay attention to audio and visual messaging).
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Also very useful for the Plumstead sidings to Abbey Wood (and v/v) ECS "Z" moves with 2 cab swaps which enables a far quicker ramp up /ramp down of service especially in the morning
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Yes it very "suddenly" materialised a while after the paper work had been sitting on ORR's desk...
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Only 3 stations can’t take a 9-car on the GEML. Evidently 11-car trains is for decades ahead, but it’s good to see infrastructure so future-proofed; in the 2040s we might be thankful for the fact it was over-budget and late!
Stabiling capacity is more of a concern, although there is a lot of it at Old Oak Common.
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But how many of those 9 car stations could be extended to take 11? Notr many I reckon
But this might be in the wrong place and result in lots of ECS mileage - usually sub-optimal.
I think the problem is that each TOC code (XR, presumablly an abbreviation of "crossrail") is associated with a single brand. To split the brand would have presumablly required introducing a second TOC code which I suspect would have caused a lot of beauracracy that noone wanted for a situation that would last less than a year.
ThameslinkUser
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The 'LM' TOC code code works for two brands: West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway.
The plan for November onwards has a good majority of trains starting / ending at Old Oak Common. If services start from Paddington (either low level or high level) there's not much "sub-optimal mileage" as you're right in the middl of the route. Obviously you have some at Gidea Park and Ilford and Shenfield to start up from the East and also Maidenhead and Plumstead.
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Yes at the moment its fine but don't forget what @306024 wrote.
Stabling in Anglia as a whole is pretty tight to be honest and between Shenfield and London its very challenging indeed.
Stabling is tight everywhere really and we're talking 20-30 years in the future in reality. It's ample for the forseeable future.
There were some bored looking people! Station staff have also been doing familiarisations last few weeks.
Anyone know what this was all about. At all times there was always someone sat on the platform, was it in case a train accidentally stopped or something?
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